As much as we’d like SF to stay 2D… the only way SF will regain popularity is to go 3-D. A 3-D SF that allows button mashing noobs to get into, and yet with enough depth to keep the hardcore SF fanbase happy.
I think a lot is riding on the next installment of SF. If it isn’t received well by the gaming community, it would be hard to imagine capcom making future SF games.
Shifting Paradigms and the Emergence of the Digital Martial Arts
(Finally a thread really worth reading here.)
There are a lot of really interesting ideas, comments and concerns raised in this thread, and I have been poking around making comments here and there when topics of this nature have arisen.
Taxonomy of the Problem: A primer and Introduction
As I’m reading discertation after discertation, there are a few common questions that I am seeing resurfance time and time again amongst the different opinions and posts that populate this thread. Therefore, these are the questions I will comment on in this post:[list]
[]What is the current State of the 2D Fighter?
[]Why are 2D fighters in Decline?
[]What can we do to bring 2D fighters back into the mainstream?[/list]With these questions, there are some periferary issues that are directly related to these questions that are also worth talking about:[list]
[]2D Fighters as a Digital Martial Art
[*]Gunslingers and Zen Masters: The Psychology of the 2D Fighting community[/list]
THE CURRENT STATE OF THE 2D FIGHTER
It’s absolutely impossible to talk about making the competitive 2D fighting scene better without first talking about the 2D fighting game itself, which I’m sorry to report my fellow Americans, has been in steady since about 2000, which is something I think everyone can agree to, and does not require a rocket scientists or professional statistician to point out. There are many factors that have contributed to this, most of which have been pointed out: lack of Arcades, the introductions of the Shiney new sporty 3D model of fighting game, all the way down to 2D fighters become and esoteric game style that just doesnt have the visual pomp and pinache of its newer counterparts.
But if you want a good pulse of where the 2D fighter is at, just take a look at the games that most of the companies are pumping out: re-hash mixups of older game titles on the newer systems. Strictly speaking on a pure popularity level, the Street Fighter Series is king. Hands down period, end of sentance. But when was the last New Street Fighter game announced? 2000? Everything else has been remixes and combo vs. series (dont get me wrong, CvS is a good series), and unfortunately, GG and other fighters just don’t have the same fan base in sheer numbers.
With that said, I think this is an accurate assesment of the “New Game” reality:
It is unfortunate, but economics and social video game policy are increasingly marginalizing the role of 2D anything in a lot of newer “A release” games.
Even with all this said, there is a fundamental paradigm shift that has occurred in the 2D fighter genre over the years that I think has had more of an impact than economics, and this assertion is a cornerstone in how I approach this game, and I seek to encourage others to do so as well.
2D FIGHTERS AS A DIGITAL MARTIAL ART
There has been a lot of quotes cited from various posts talking about how complicated 2D fighters are, how their learning curve has become too steep, and the general malaise that has creeped into the attitude of the “Average Gamer” about fighting games.
Take a break from this post for a moment and look around at the 2D fighting games, their communities and their sites for a second if you haven’t yet. Watch some videos, read some FAQs, some frame rate Data the usual information that many of us have come to expect in terms of content. Take a look at the countless videos that many of these sites host, and look at the level of gameplay that has become standard within the community.
Then take another moment, and read the posts througout this forum, particularly those that deal with the question, “How can I get better?” Listen to some of the answers. These are not my recommendations, but yours, the countless posters here at SRK.
The Long Version
[list]
[]Learn all the basic moves of a character… live them.
[]Learn all the special moves of a character… live them.
[]Read up on the general style your character plays… live it.
[]Read up on your characters strength and weaknesses … know them.
[]Practice.
[]Play against as many people as possible.
[]Practice.
[]Learn from your mistakes, ask questions from better players.
[*]Practice.
[/list]…ad nauseum.
The Short Version
[list]
[]Pick a character, become a student of that character
[]Practice on your own
[*]Practice with and against others
[/list]
What this means is that 2D fighters have ascended beyond that of a simple game to play. It is a genre that in order to be truly competitive it something that you have to study, practice and live in order perform at a high enough level. This means you have spend time dedicated to the game both in front of and away from your video game console and/or arcade cabinet.
It means reading this post on this forum, and here in lies the paradigm shift.
This ascension means that 2D fighters have become a Digitial Martial Art, and that all of you are Digital Martial Artists, not just “2D Fighting Gamers.” You all have chosen a school of Digitial Martial Arts (“Capcom”, “SNK”, “Sammy”, etc…), and each of you have chosen at least one style within the school (The style of “Urien”, “Ken”,“K”,“Rugal”,etc.)
Why do I say 2D fighters are a digital martial art and not most 3D fighters? This is because of all of the things other gamers complain about: Just as a white belt on his first day of learning Kenpo or Aikido cannot hope to beat a 4th Degree blackbelt who’s been dedicated to the art for 10+ years, a new gamer to 2D fighters cannot pick up the controller or arcade stick and expect to perform even marginally well against a 10-year veteran who’s spent a significant portion of his gaming life dedicated to the genre.
Another significant reason is found in the “blackbelts” of this genre. Looking at 2 champion 3S players (for example) battle it out, the game takes on a different dimension, the people sparring make the game look effortless, which is the hallmark of any Martial Art or truly competitive activity. For most people this makes fighting games not “just a game” as you have so often heard from people you beat, and they’re right: it’s not. For the majority of you reading this post, you have put in the same level of time, dedication and work that many other (or you as well) have put into a “real” martial art.
So here lies a major juncture I think as to Why the 2D fighter is in decline.
GUNSLINGERS AND ZEN MASTERS: 2D FIGHTER PSYCHOLOGY
I posted a similar topic on a thread before, and would have liked to have linked the post for brevity, but the creater of the thread deleted it, se la vi.
At this point, if you even marginally agree with me that 2D Fighters are a Digital Martial Art and not just a “game” then this next assertion would make sense: When dealing with a competitve martial art, there are generally two life-cycles that the martial art will follow. I have outlined and explained those models below:[list]
[*]The GUNSLINGER Model: The Dharma of Competitive Self-Destruction
Harken back to the gunslingers of the wild west, where the only way to determine “who’s the best” was to have a showdown mano a mano on the dusty thoroughfare at high noon. Gunslingers tended to be the brash, boastful and arrogant, which has become the typical archetype when portraying that character. The Gunslingers had a phrase that described the Tao of their Martial Art: The Quick and the Dead, obviously meaning that if you weren’t the best, then you would wind up dead on the roadside.
There’s a two-fold problem with this: the first that only those who were “quick” enough showed any interest in the style of fighting, shunning the majority of the very young and later “more educated” generations, and it is here where the Dharma of Competitive Self-Destruction manifests: eventually all the “good” competitors and masters killed each other until there was only one left, and where did that last one go from there?
[*]The ZEN MASTER Model: The Dharma of the Selfless Self
Contrast this with the Zen Masters (not just Zen Buddhists, which took a codified approach to the study and attainment of Zen Awareness through religious Dharma and Texts), in their studies of martial arts in particular. The Zen Master is often characterized in our popular perception as the quiet, unassuming and modest sensei, wise beyond his mortal years.
The Zen Master model through the Dharma of the Selfless Self encourages the fulfillment of ones needs through the fullfilling the needs of others. Through teaching, the Zen Master learns new things both about himself, his martial art and the Universe that he lives in.
This selfless self brings with it a two-fold benefit: this model cultivates new students, seeking to better themselves and learn after seeing the Zen Master perform with grace-fluidity and the mindless mindfulness that allows him to react without thinking to any situation. This ensures that there is always new blood coming in to learn Zen and the particular martial art that the master has chosen to perfect.
The second benefit this model brings is in the fact that the masters always quizzed and tested each other with a competitive compassion, meaning in all things they acted with singular puposefulness and intensity, but it was always motivated by the sincere desire to improve those around them. This ensured that the competition was always maintained at the highest possible calibre, and constantly challenged both themselves and those around them to improve. By helping other students and “masters” become better, the Zen Master assured himself a mean in which to continually improve and would always have that which he most needed; a tool in which he could use to pursue the perfection of his self and his mindfulness.
[/list]
If you were to take a look around at the fighting game community, particularly the SRK forums, which model do you think the Digital Martial Art of 2D fighting predominantly falls under?
If you’ve read even half the posts I have that show a resentment/contempt for “n00bz” or “Scrubs” as they’re referred to here, I think it overwhelmingly falls under the former model, meaning that all the truly vicious trash-talk and overall lack of encouraging new people to play means that we’re literally shooting our colleagues and killing their interest to pick up the Martial Art, leaving that potential to die on the dust-ridden road in front of the SRK Saloon.
And here proposes the first tangible answer to the question:
WHAT CAN WE DO TO BRING 2D FIGHTERS BACK INTO THE MAINSTREAM
First and foremost, every competitive person who decides to be a part of the competitive 2D Fighting community, regardless of whether or not you will actually compete, need to make a conscious decision on a personal and individual level as to which Dharma he/she chooses to follow. Are you going to be a Gunslinger or Zen Master? In essense, each and every one of us needs to get an attitude adjustment. It’s not because _______ company won’t sponsor us, or _______ guy is a scrubby McScrubsDropper on XBL, or _________ game company wont make us a new game.
It’s not even about SRK giving premium members more bling.
…it is because of (generic) you.
Each one of us has a two-fold responsibilty: the responsibilty to ourselves and the responsibility to those around us. This is in all things. By complaining, name calling, forum flaming and “scrub hating,” we are killing our genre.
Not FPS
Not Madden
Not RTS
…and because it’s about (generic) you, the solution begins and ends with you.
Are you doing all you can ensure that you are not only raising the level of your game, but raising the level of those around you. Are you going spit, swear and curse when someone drops because they lost/were humiliated/had a legitamite network problem, or are you going to extend your hand in the same manner of the Zen Master and invite them to try again? Are you going to be self-proclaimed “Master of Fists,” seeking to win even if it destroys everyone else, or are your going to encourage your opponents to get better and challenge you again when they’re ready?
And perhaps this is what is so difficult about this problem: we have reached a level of play as a community where it no longer is a game, but an art form, a Tao, a Dharma and a serious path of dedication and personal digital perfection.
Yet at the same time, it is also just a game. It would seem that the trick of it is to stand in the middle of that contradiction and both walk the path of the Digital Martial Artist, but also retain that white belt mentality that it is what it is, and those around me wish to experience and enjoy what it is.
Personally, I make not claim that I am even close to being authoritative on anything, and know that many of you frequent XBL players would probably mop the floor with me, which is fine…
…but I still think these are worthwhile questions and proposed solutions to think about nonetheless.
Like many things, the answer is so extraordinarily simple it edges on the impossible.
I am the future of fighting games…
Well I think most of that is a given. If people on here brag and complain why the community is going downhill and then turn their backs to some new kid on the block trying to get better, there’s your problem right there.
what about standardizing hardware that visually changes the game?
like a gizmo that takes in the video signal and separates different pallettes like characters and special animations from the background, then be able to put a specially designed glass screen over the monitor to project the sprites and make it seem “touchable”? like a clear fluid that makes the images seem more 3d, but still able to retain most to all the colors, water “screens” project images well but colors dull out. the pallette selections would be savable on the device. it would promote paying more attention to the sprites/game, but different and visually pleasing enough for a mainstream gamer to wanna play it.
silly idea i had
Truer words were never spoken. I wholeheartedly agree with your whole “improve those around you” approach.
However, I’m fairly certain that even if every fighting game fan were to do this, it wouldn’t be enough. I’ve been trying to get my friends hooked on them ever since I started playing seriously a year ago, and I’ve barely accomplished anything. Even if I were successful, and managed to ‘convert’ a huge number of people, it wouldn’t mean shit.
The fact of the matter is that the scene probably won’t get bigger. Even if SF4 ends up being one of the greatest games ever, the Maddens and GTAs will still overshadow it. You can see this pattern in other genres as well. There’s not gonna be a great deal of advertising if there’s no GUARANTEED PROFIT. And that’s about the only thing that matters these days.
Its all about participating in whatever you can in the community. Whether it be running a local tournament, going to a local tournament, or just having gatherings at peoples houses, you guys need to stay involved, and not alienate any new members of this comminuty because they dont know as much as you do.
it’s all about money… a good start would be… if every single member of srk would donate at least $1 or more to one smart ass businessman that knows the scene (i.e. mr wizard) and build something from there… but because of money issues… fighting game scene will always be 2nd class to FPS… arcades are just too difficult to attract people… it does not look good, but if all can unite or contribute a little bit… we are strong enough to start something… i suggest someone (a leader) takes charge in that and… something might grow out of it… but right now… SRK is USA’s strongest, most unifying fighting game utility right now… and only SRK can make a difference now… as far as USA fighting game goes…
Umm, maybe it’s me, but I don’t remember this threas being about how you can revive 2D games. Wasn’t it about just reviving the FG scene? You could do that without 2D fighters, you know. Your ideas are still good, but if we were able to stomach the brokenness in MVC2 and CVS2 for so long, why not SC3, T5, and DOA3.1/3.2?
The only way to revive the FG scene is by making the games more accessible, yet making them good for the pros. This is why 3D sells: Easy for the casual gamer learn, goes to pretty decent high-level play eventually. Of course, most 2D fanboys want their games to be as unaccessible/complex as possible, so they can’t complain that “OMG a scrub beat me and I’m champ!”
Yes, gamers are getting lazier. People want instant satisfaction, and I don’t blame them. Most gamers now a days have jobs and social lives, so they can’t play games 24/7. They just want fun, and isn’t that what we all want?
So, if anything, blame the ignorant 2D fanboys who always bash 3D gfighters for being noob-friendly. That’s a good thing, you know, AND THAT HELPS OUT ALOT! More accessibility could=more players=better scene. Just my 2 cents.
That’s what I was thinking too.
EDIT:Complexity have limited my ability in most fighters. I don’t have as much time as I used too.
Interesting Points
Interesting points a lot of you bring up, so I’ll try to work backwards a bit:
I never said that this 2D fighters were the original purpose of this thread, but that after reading the vast majority of posts, the topic of 2D fighters was at the forefront of what people were talking about.
Indeed you could, but the plain and simple fact is that I would estimate that 90%+ of the readers here have their hearts in the 2D fighter genre, and I would still agree that while getting there, many of the 3D fighters still do not reach the technical depth found in good 2D fighter games. I don’t say this as “3D-is-too-easy-for-the-n00bzorz”, but as an observation and through reading many many posts and visiting sites.
Again I refer you to the section where I consider 2D fighters a Digital Martial Art.
I think any new ideas are good ideas, but again I maintain the assertion that it’s not a problem with hardware, graphics or even Network play. Hobbes made this point for me earlier:
So if this is true, and a 6 year old game can still bring in $$$, then technically a 5 year old game (3S) should be able to do the same, but it doesn’t.
That’s because I believe the responsibility falls upon our shoulders. Because the vast majority of digital martial artists in this community (talking 2D fighters here) live on a gunslinger mentality, we end up killing the interest of newer players.
I think what makes this hard to stomach for a lot of people is because I’m calling each one of us (myself included) to really take a hard look at how we treat other fellow Digitial Martial Artists in the community. It harkens to personal responsibilty, which I think many are not entirely willing to do in an objective and truthful manner.
…but I would love to be proved wrong on this case.
Absoultely. However, knowing that most of that is a given and actually speaking up about it and working to make a change are two entirely different animals.
…and based on a lot of what I read in this forum, I’m not so entirely sure that it is a given.
and finally for this response driven post:
I don’t blame ignorant 2D fanboys, I “blame” each and every one of us (myself included) for the following:[list]
[]Allowing and Perpetuating a Gunslinger Mentality
[]Not taking personal and individual accountability for improving the community
[/list]
Even then “blame” is not the proper word, but my main goal is to hope and affect some kind of fundamental attitude shift in how we relate to each other in the community, and how we relate to new initiates into the genre.
Foolishly Arrogant: probably, but it makes for what I would consider truly constructive and meaningful dialogue beyond the standard fare of inanities like “oh yeah well your a dropper you Scrubby McScrubDropper! BG Man! BG! You dropped!”
Still excellent points and thought processes nonetheless.
I think it’s interesting to compare and contrast the changes in popular competitive games aside from fighting games with those from fighting games. For example, Madden NFL 06 added some new features like QB Vision that some hardcore tournament players in Madden said broke the game or made it virtually unplayable. It’s interesting because with things like RC in CVS2, Dust Loop in #R, etcetera that some people complain about it’s sort of similar to see what changes with each generation of new fighters ( there’s already complaints about Vanessa’s infinite / anywhere canceling stuff in KOF XI, Bazoo in RF2, etc ). And there is definitely broken shit in the FPS scene ( Halo 2 fixes anyone? ), so broken shit extends beyond genre. If competitive scenes are to advance then I think it boils down to players looking beyond things like tiers and infinites and looking at the scene holistically, and determining the direction of where they want their scene to be in the next five years.
I think an interesting step for the community would be initially deciding what the new generation of money games are. The FPS community has already pretty much said that their new money games are Quake 4, Painkiller, Counterstrike Source, etcetera. However the fighting game community seems a bit split on whether the “new” tournament games should be, what games are “dead”, and where the competition lies. Of course taking into consideration that the US may not get some of the games because arcades don’t do big business ( VF5 ), it’s difficult for fighting gamers to decide what to invest their skills and money in. Taking a notion from Japanese players though, it seems like Melty Blood seems to be growing, as well as Rumblefish…
What I would like to see ( and I’m not sure if this is just me on this point ) is a gradual thinning out of the online scene and players coming together to raise the level of the offline scene and increasing their local area talent, especially if the online scene does not continue to support the fighting game community ( I’m looking at you, Microsoft, and your servers ) and help nurture and grow it to the point where there are just as many people playing DOA4 as 3S ( yeah right…but I can dream )…and where there’s no lag ( sike ).
the scene part maybe 1 of 2
well 3 reasons why Fighters will never be popular
Promotion: Compared to other competitive “non sports”, like poker or fps. Fighters in general have been god awful as far as promoting itself. Evo has increased in size, But that’s only because of the 4 or 5 websites dedicated to that particular game. For the scene to become larger it has to go beyond srk or tz etc. Fps got popular thru the years by promoting itself and after a while the companies began knocking on their doors and started giving out the cash, and with the cash=more promotion. In Short Sf isn’t popular because A. Capcom of USA /NAMCO/SAMMY DOESN’T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT US and B. Not enough ppl knows that ppl still play Sf which leads to this point.
Infomation: The other main reason why fighters aren’t popular is because there’s a big misconception that you have to dedicate a insane amount of time of your life to get even remotely decent(thus associating fighting game players as being anti-social…or losers). And that’s just plain wrong. Players who did get good had a combination of competition and infomation(as strategies and combos). And before this site…it was HARD to find decent(re. Legit) infomation on a particular game, Especially when game magazines’s…whenever they did post “strategy guides” almost always got infomation wrong and led too many gamers down the wrong path. Fps games never had this problem. To the naked eye it appears simple enough, Just find the other guy and shoot him. Fighting games are complicated by nature. that’s why infomation on our games have to spread and made popular.IF A TUTORIAL WAS MADE AND BECAME POPULAR THE SCENE’S FUTURE WOULD LOOK A LOT ROSIER. and that lead to my last point.
The comunnity We can sit here and complain and brainstorm all want but if NO ACTION is being taken. Then the Fg scene will continue to erode and die off. Promote this Shit, with your friends. your neighborhoods, Shit tag buildings or Subways promoting the Site, anything to promote the site…If the evo dvd or a tutorial came out. PROMOTE IT YOURSELF, Put up Fliers and the like with info how to get it. BUT YOU MUST TAKE ACTION YOURSELF.
P.S waddup Rob!!:karate:
I don’t think it’s really a matter of good people destroying new players, but rather, it’s hard for new players to find other people relative to their skill level. That’s why FPS and RTS are more accessible; you don’t have to get raped 0-32 every time you want to play, you can steadily bring yourself up if you so desire, and if you’re doing bad, you can always move down a level.
It’s not like the other communities are generously accepting either, they all have their fair share of hardcore people. In Starcraft, if you couldn’t speak Korean you were already shunned by by most of the community. I know I was. =P
I don’t think gamers are getting lazier, but the games are getting more complex by adding a bunch of systems. Look at SF2, the concepts of the game are pretty simple, but as we all know, the game is complex. It doesn’t need 5 different bars, 6 grooves and a super special juggling system and tagging, but it’s just a simple game with simple rules. We felt good when we were able to do shoryukens on command; now we have to do these complicated custom combos just to feel on par.
Hell, 3D games aren’t anywhere near easy to learn but they can make you feel good about knowing the movelist.
I do strongly agree that the way we treat new players within the FG community is getting alittle bit too far fetched. During the Hay Day of FG(I was only 10-12 yrs old during those times), the community, especially the veterans where very open minded, although ego’s where there, their was a sense of everyone was welcome. Now a days I see one newbie mistake and they get crucified for it, I feel that we really do need to band together, no matter what our skill levels maybe compared to oneanother. I know that some new players are ignorant and may not even have a clue of what they are speaking of, but it is up to us as the ones who’ve been around longer to be the patient one, it does alot of good.
As I stated on my post on the first page, gamers of today are lazy, it’s a fact that we all must face with, but I think that it can be turned, and also I agree with many of the things that Celes has stated. I don’t know about any of you, but for me as an older FG gamer (23 yrs old now) fighting games in general I play with a passion when compared to anyother game genre, because to me, it’s not even a game, when I pick my character and go up against someone who’s good, my heart is pumping, I can feel the adrenaline…if you compare it’s not different from sports when in competetion. I feel that things such as this, should be exposed to the public, so that when they see these kinds of human emotions, the passion that we as the FG community pour into these FG’s, I’m sure that we may just very well get more attention, and recognition.
I mean, Football is just a game, but the players who play make it more than just that, and when you have emotions like that going into something like that, it makes it irresistable for the public, for they can’t help but awe at what goes on, and it inspires more people to wanting to join. I feel that we can definetly achieve all of this, because fighting games can give out all of these senses of emotions, if we can connect to newcomers and critics alike with a feelilng of “Wow, this is more than just a fighting game, it’s an art.” Then that means your getting onto something, the basic thing is, let go of all of the pride, allow everyone the same opportunity, and get the FG Community public, and display to the non-believers and the skeptics and show them why we still play games that are 6-10yrs old, show the general people why do we still play 2-D even though 3-D is mainstrain, why do we continue to support the FG Community and feel that they do not deserve the credit they so richly deserve, it starts with us:tup: .
I would like to thank everyone for giving their inputs on this topic and to continue to give opinion on how to better our community.
I would like to respond to some of the topics mentioned earlier and probably repeat and expand on some great ideas because heck they are just great ideas.
Some have mentioned about the utilities needed to play an FPS and for that reason companies who are involved with the hardware are willing to support the FPS scene. While I do agree there are more components needed to upgrade for an FPS player compared to a Fighting Gamer, console companies (Microsoft, Sony), joystick companies (Happ, Hori), arcade control makers (MAS Systems, XArcade), and console control makers (Mad Catz, Nuby Tech) can all become sponsors and supporters of the fighting game community.
There have been comments that in order to expand the community we need TV exposure, while its a great idea and would definitely help the community, we must start small and eventually it can be big enough to be on major cable networks. Organization such as CPL didnt overnight have MTV show their national championships, they started in the local level and it eventually grew. Therefore it is also imperative as fans of this genre for gamers to support the scene by hosting local tournaments and gatherings. Try to get your local game shops owners, your local EB, GameStop, or Game Crazy to host, help sponsor, or have flyers announcing your events, these are simple ways to help grow the community in your area. And dont forget at your local events to promote upcoming major tournaments (MWC, ECC, TS, and Evolution) and to let gamers know that if they are interest to visit the gaming communities online (SRK, TZ, SC.COM, and Dustloop.com). Word of mouth is the greatest and cheapest form of advertisement.
There seems to be a division between those who play 2d fighters and those that play 3d fighters. While gaming companies want to produce games that push the envelope of the console hardware, gaming companies have no problem introducing simple not-so-graphically intense games as long as people are going to buy them and enjoy the games. Gamers are worried about the 2d v. 3d scene, we must realize first that we are a fighting game scene and companies will produce these games regardless if its 2d or 3d as long as there are enough demand for them. 2D gamers shouldnt exclude themselves from purchasing 3D fighters and 3D gamers shouldnt exclude 2D fighters. The more we are willing to invest in companies that produce fighting games the more likely we will see game companies develop fighting games. It is communities such as this that will weed out the bad fighting games and heavily promote the better games by putting them in the major tournaments.
We also need websites such as SRK and top level gamers like Justin Wong, John Choi, and Mike Watson to seriously commit and help expand the scene. While they owe nothing to us as individuals, as leaders of the community, I believe they have a special interest in seeing the community they have spent years developing grow. Many in the community have already mentioned great ways for SRK to grow, like taking a looking at FPS community websites such as GOTFRAG.com and mimic how they setup the special offers that member get when they pay a premium memberships (tournament videos from overseas, access to frame data, and special translations to prominent Japanese gaming sites).
Many have also mentioned how the newer games are so complicated that very few are willing to take on the daunting task to learn a fighting game. Whats interesting is that regardless of all the bells and whistles in a fighting game, it is the basics fundamentals that make great players. In order for those who are new or just interested in the scene to realize this truth, I believe it is the communitys responsibility to promote and give insights to how beginners/intermediates/and pro players approach certain games, hence why it is important for top level gamers to give their point of view on how they approach certain games and how they break down those games. While like I mentioned earlier, top players owe nothing to us, they should consider the community and give a little back by doing special interviews, view and reactions to tournaments, and analysis of match videos.
I couldnt agree more.
To The Kugz: I agree, I think SRK needs to realize that while it was originally designed as a community for Street Fighter, it has grown to encompass all fighting games including those that have their own dedicated sites. SRK and its community should support and publicize more than just the big fighting game titles, but also promote lesser known fighting games that are only distributed in Japan.
Sup Juicy G!!!
I couldnt agree on your second and third point, which is why I posted this thread. I want gamers to first be aware that they are not the only ones with concerns, many gamers are concern as well and that action needs to take place. One person cannot come up with ideas to promote something they love, as a community we can come up with great ideas and hopefully many will read this thread and will take action, I hope those who run SRK will read this thread hopefully take up on some of these advices and realize that the community wants action, and I hope that eventually we can get the ball moving again.
While I realize that the Fighting Game community may never be bigger than the FPS community, my goal is to get fighting gamers to realize that now is a great opportunity to get ourselves known and become public have gaming companies and media outlets know we exist and should consider us as another form of competitive gaming.
Here’s my take on the whole topic:
I’ve been playing SF since SF2 came out (I was but a mere lad then). Anyways, it was the greatest evolution to a video game that ever hit me. Since then I have been addicted to fighting games (mainly the mainstream ones like SF, Vs series, SC, Tekken, etc) I have noticed that as the new games are coming out, there is a lot less evolution of the game itself. Perfect examples are Capcom Fighting Jam, Tekken 5, Soul Caliber 3, etc. In these new games there was really nothing that set it apart from its predecessor. With that, the game feels old and nothing really exciting arises. I stopped playing each of those games within a month after they came out because I felt like i was just playing a slightly upgraded version of the previous game.
Something we need is a big jump…
MvC to MvC2 = big jump
CvS to CvS2 = Big Jump
The community needs things like that in order to satisfy the hunger. Another thing we need is for the video game companies like Capcom, Namco, SNK, Sammy, etc. to start listening to their fans. Don’t you all agree that we deserve another great fighting game? A game that meets all of our expectations? I’m tellin you, if Capcom took 100 SRKers into their testing/opinion rooms and listened to what we needed, they’d come out with a fighting game that would satisfy us for years to come. We’ve shed over 15 years of blood and tears over these games, its the least they could do.
Anyways, that last paragraph would probably only happen in a dream. But really, we need these great companies to get off their non-creative asses and come up with something that isn’t so half assed. I guess they think that if they threw in a couple of characters and add a couple million polygons that we’d be satisfied. Hell no, we need evolution!
“Hey CAPCOM!! Quit crying over the loss of Marvel and try to sign with another company with kick ass characters like DC or Sammy! Then put on your fookin thinking caps and make us a VS series game that will have us poppin quarters into the machines even when the joysticks break down!”
Maybe we should just gather up a whole bunch of SRK graphic designers and programmers, fuse together, and make our own magnificent fighting game. (I’ve actually really thought about that)
As for the arcades…
The most successful arcade around where I live is at my school (CSUS, california state university of Sacramento). I have never seen so many people dedicated to the fighting games there (3rd strike, alpha 2, alpha 3, CVS2, MVC2, MVC) They kinda have it all with pretty good competition and I think its great. Maybe we need more arcades at school. I hear the one at UC Davis is pretty kick ass too.
Also, what if everyone from SRK eMailed Capcom demanding a new fighting game…would that get their attention? LOL, just a thought
New blood is a necessity.
I can’t comment on what games MWC or ECC or FR or Texas Showdown or Evo should have, or needs to have for the sake of the community…because none of those guys owe us anything. A lot of them have done a whole hell of a lot already.
But new games need to be in there to keep things fresh. You’re going to need to throw some Rumble Fish or Melty Blood or NGBC or Hokuto no Ken or whatever in there. The last popular game for tournaments came out three years ago (CvS2).
Some games have juice in them to stick around, especially at a tournament like Evo, where people would sign up for SFA2 or XSF, even if they never played them seriously. Eventually, however, a game will fall on it’s face (CFE, SvC, Tekken 4 I heard, etc), so you need new games circulating, whether they catch on or not. Hell, maybe even single-elim or 5-on-5 exhibitions at big tournaments.
I’m not a big fan of games thrown in just to get the support of other communities (ie. attempt to add Super Smash Bros. to the Evo lineup), though that may or may not be necessary. Likewise, I wouldn’t want to add DOA3 or a WWE game or whatever just to get some financial support (though it would probably work out very well, even if it were a one-time thing…just saying). But, there are new fighting games which are respected by their communities coming out pretty frequently, be it Melty Blood or a new VF game or whatever, and these things garner attention, and get people playing.
Shaq Fu for Evo.
I been sayin this for years…
We need something that appears simple, but is deep.
With flashy graphics to attract noobs.
Remake SSF2T, toss in a few characters, update the engine a little, ALL NEW GRAPHICS.
Problem solved.
People might say that CVS2 was the closest thing to said game.
Maybe thats why its been so popular?