Haha, don’t mind my complaining, I always do this before I settle into a game and begin to enjoy it. Getting it out of my system and what not.
As always, sorry for giving wrong information, and thanks God 2.0 for correcting me!
Finished all the frame data I wanted to for today, so here’s another link to add to the info compendium:
Only 6 more characters to go: Andy, Joe, Laurence, Duck, Chonrei, & Tung! And no, I am NOT covering Alfred! =P
Enjoy,
Josh.
Excellent work as always, Josh! :tup: And the info as been added to the compendium!
Aww, no Alfred? :shake: Hehe, he’s so batshit insane anyway. Such a shame though, he’s an amazing design and his theme is one of my favorites.
And as a unrelated note, here’s a hi-res, english trailer for KOFXII. :woot:
By the way, I’ve been playing on the second-hand MAS I got in on Thursday, and on man…I thought I’d take to it a lot easier than this. :bluu: It’s like learning how to walk again! Seriously, if any of you ever wanted to get revenge on me, now’s definitely the time. :wasted:
Yeah, I’m that guy. I play on Kaillera as Chronicbeast so if anyone wants to have a go at cuz I need the practice. I use Xiangfei, Duck, and learning Kim just recently.
Feel free to hit me up on AIM sometime for some matches. :tup:
And I’m going back to my N64 pad. :arazz: I need retro powah! :rock:
Hey guys, I started working on Duck and just as I guessed, he is going to be the most annoying character to data-mine. Figure I’ll get him out of the way right now…
Something neat I discovered during this process: I think the Duck Dance may actually be consistent! Whenever I work on frame data, I always use emulator cheats to make the game into a kind of training mode, and this means it always remains in the same round. Well, at first, the Duck Dance would dizzy…but after a couple times, it would never dizzy.
This made me curious, so I restarted the game multiple times. And sure enough, the opponent would get dizzy the first 2-3 times each match! Not sure if this resets each round or what, but regardless, this would be a great thing for Duck if it turns out to be legit. The move is invincible on startup, and just using the level 1 charge will allow him to capitalize on the dizzy for big damage - grab super at midscreen, or corner combo into air grab super. He will still have access to the mid-air ball super while he has P-Power meter, too, though I have no idea how useful that move actually is.
In fact, Soh85 just recently posted a Japanese game of Duck vs. Kim, where Duck wins the match by landing Duck Dance as an anti-air. I think you can take this move out of the “worst supers ever” category, for sure. =)
Enjoy,
Josh.
Nice findings, Josh!
Unfortunately, I believe the move is still one of the worst because of the very small hitbox. It hits only exactly where his shoulder is located, and the shoulder has almost no horisontal range. In fact, I believe it has negative horisontal range, meaning that you have to be extremely close to the opponent. Can also be ducked (pun, yay!)
I will honour your findings by training with it as a counter move.
Here another example on my channel with one more setup. I always believed it could be a usefull ppower. Even landing the dizzy is a though and risky job, there a lot players who have enough mind game, reflexes and timing to do it when the oportunity comes in. That duck i have met on reps was a really good atypical one and did that shit several times on me XD.
I’m currently working on a laurence guide, should be done for the next month.
Ps: Josh, thank you a lot for all you frame data work.
Really? I’ve actually got one almost done. Maybe we could combine our information. I <3 Laurence, he’s my new main now.
Guys, it just dawned on my how much I hate the term “bread and butter.” Whoever decided to associate it with fighters should go die in a fire.
OT: RB2 is close to being my favorite game. 
That sounds like a good idea. I think i will send you my work via pm maybe tomorrow.
Uh…
Yoiks.
After using Duck a bit recently, I have been using the P Power as anti-air several times already, and have found that as long as you manage to perform it against air, it is a very very strong anti-air. The problem is of course if it misses, so make sure it doesn’t. I do believe that both his arms and the rest of his head and upper body will hit the opponent, so it may hit people crossing over as well.
Thanks for the info about this, Josh.
So there might actually be some use from the Duck Dance after all? Hmm…I’d really like to see this in a fight. Actually, I’d be all for fighting someone with an infinite supers on just to see how likely it would be landed.
The thing I’m wondering is if it does turn out to be halfway decent, what will take the place as the worst super in the game? :wonder:
I think this is a realistic list of nominees:
Franco’s Megaton Press (S Power)
Cheng’s Bursting Heavens (S Power)
Billy’s Super Fire Wheel (S Power)
Sokaku’s Thunder God (S Power)
Tung’s Senpu Gouken (S Power)
Hon-fu’s Yoka Tonhanma (P Power)
Connecting the Duck Dance on high jumps is fairly easy. On low jumps however, you have to be blazingly fast on the controller. Using it against a predicted jump is too risky, as if your opponent doesn’t jump, you’re dead.
EDIT: Move names found in Goh_Billy’s excellent RB 2 movelist over at www.gamefaqs.com
Good games to God 2.0! Big, he landed that Duck Dance on me a couple times, and it’s DANGEROUS - kills people who get overly hop-happy!
Also, I’ll look at that worst supers list…
Franco’s Megaton Upper: This is completely horrible for the most part, but it’s the best followup to the Armageddon Buster. Even if you can’t perform the infinite, Upper into Guts Dunk still does more damage than anything else.
Cheng’s S-Power: Definitely a top candidate. It might catch someone performing a high jump or slow special, once at most.
Billy’s Fire Wheel: It kills jump-ins, though you would have to predict them in advance. Still, at least it’s SOMETHING.
Sokaku’s S-Power: The other real possibility, along with Cheng’s. It eats a few seconds off the clock, so it can net you a time-over win…IF you can create the breathing room to perform it (which is far from easy).
Tung’s S-Power: Chip damage kills. Doesn’t it hit the backplane, as well? That would make it unreversable in some matchups.
Hon-Fu’s P-Power: Good for the occasional gimmick win over noobs since it’s an overhead. More seriously, it can breakshot Rick’s P-Power and any other move that takes forever when blocked (ARE there any others?). And with its invincibility, I wonder if it wouldn’t work as an anti-air - maybe the first hit could connect during the opponent’s landing recovery?
So overall, I think Sokaku slightly beats out Cheng here. WTG my main. =(
-Josh
Hehe, Josh has already beat me to the Super-by-Super analysis. I think there’s a few supers left off the list, though.
Cheng’s Collapse of Creation (P-Power): I can count on one hand, and still have fingers left over, how many times I’ve been hit by this super. Not only is it hard to set up, but most of the time you’re going to lose damage on it. If you hold down :snkc: for too long, then he’ll fall harmlessly to ground, which potentially leaves him open to huge frame disadvantage.
Andy’s Dan Da Dan (P-Power): This is a super that is bad for one simple reason: its range. It’s much too easy for an opponent to get hit by the first punch or two, then be knocked out of range of the rest of the super; leaving Andy flailing at the air and wasting a super.
Laurence Blood’s Death Sword (S-Power): Same problem as Andy’s super: it’s rare that you’ll actually land every hit of the super because they’ll get pushed out of its range. However, this isn’t so bad because unlike Andy’s, it’s an S-Power.
Jin Chonrei’s Empire Destiny Blow (S/P-Power): The super, in of itself, isn’t that bad. However, it’s good points are severely hampered by the fact that it is the only S-Power in the game that can keep you from a P-Power by using it. :wtf: While (as I’ve stated before) I can understand why they did it that way (so he doesn’t have a spammable fireball at <50% life), it doesn’t help him at all, since using it not only kills his ability to use a P-Power, but kills his ability to do breakshots (which also take meter).
If I had to choose one character who got the fuzzy end of the lollipop when it came to supers, I’d have to say that it’s Cheng: his supers actually have more going against them than for them. :wtf: I suppose that’s the price of having one of, if not the best breakshot in the game.
While everyone else has at least one good super, Cheng is just paired with bad ones. :shake: Tung gives him a good run for his money, but as bad as his are, at least his are comboable, juggleable, can hit in the backplane (S-Power) and is an overhead (P-Power).
A number of these characters’ supers would instantly rise in rank with just the most minor of tweaks and / or ability to be setup. Sokaku, Hon-Fu, and Tung’s in particular would be hugely increased if they had the ability to knock the opponent into the backplane (while Hon-Fu has a string that does, it’s not bufferable at the end). Andy, Laurence, and Duck’s would be helped by a small increase in range, and so on.
Anyway, bed time for me. :yawn: Take care all! :tup:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GbSRk3tdiMU
And you can combo Tung’s S-power after any standing normal done near the opponent (even at mid-screen! It’s not easy but even not impossible) or in corner you can cancel the near C after 1 hit in the S power.
A combo like near A -> S-power do more damage than any other Tung combo without P-power so i don’t think it’s a useless super move.
BTW, IMO Sokaku’s S-power is the worst.
I would also add that Rick’s Giga Press is not terribly impressive. Unless you use it at point blank range, only the second hit will hit the opponent, and that’s too slow to hit anything. At least he can combo into it from some chains.
I’d rate the Super Fire Wheel below the Bursting Heavens. The reason is that the Super Fire Wheel is so slow to fire that the opponent has time to make a cup of coffee before deciding to go to backplane and punish. In addition, since the move is only useful for stopping air attacks, it is made redundant by his far more effective vertical spin super.
The Bursting Heavens is far less unsafe as long as you stay at some range. Granted, it can’t actually hit anything besides once in a blue moon, but at least it is not instant suicide like the Super Fire Wheel.
I think my conclusion for the worst super will have to be Thunder God. Slow to perform, so slow that it will only hit someone preparing to perform a high jump at the same time as you start it. On the good side it is very hard and risky to punish him with more than a fast poke after it.
Sorry, but for Tung this is a moot point.
Tung has no mix up or combos from his normals, and the normal you use (standing A,B,C, crouching A, B can all be used) is so fast and leaves so little frame advantage that you must have faster reflexes than the human nervous system can handle to actually hit confirm this. You also have to be close, as in so close that if you take another step you will push the opponent backwards. This way, you have to already know that you will hit, in which case you could just as well perform the S Power on its own without the added risk of failure.
I just wanted to point out that Tung’s S-power can be comboed unlike the others, and yes, i know it’s difficult and risky, but normal->S-power combos have a nice use even in match: when the opponent jumps on you, you can dash forward and then hit him from behind with that combo.
For an interesting feature of the game you can’t block fireball or normals from the behind immediately after landing, this means the combo I’ve said above will certainly work. If you don’t add a near normal before the S-power, this super could be too slow to connect… and even in this case, I know it’s a really hard trick to perform in a real versus, but believe me or not a player make me eat that :amazed: