The End of the World Can't Come Soon Enough

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
21

The strategy or lack thereof is what your opponents are using. MASHING. Whether you like it or not, mashing is an option select in this game. If you use a block string nothing is going to come out, if you fail or go to tick throw you eat a DP. However if you just stop to block, your opponent will whiff in your face, allowing you to punish. There are smart mashers and dumb mashers but blocking will always beat mash.

I wish I could play your opponents and show you truly dumb that is. If your opponent is crouching you can do so much, its not even funny. Knock em down once and you will always hit oil dive setups if all they’re doing is “Crouch blocking” (Except for our obvious candidates).

So the problem isn’t Hakan, it’s your inability to get close to them. Hakan turtles up and gets in-your-face more s than most characters. His design encourages you to turtle to get oil and keep it while also encourages you to get close because your most damaging options are in close combat. Can you see? Hakan to some degree can be called a counter-intuitive design because without either approach you’re just not using him to his potential.

A crouching opponent is actually easier to grab if there Grab-box increases like his hit box. I can’t actually recall if it is true that all boxes increase or not but you should be able to grab anyone crouching or standing. I think you’re misjudging he throw distance a few pixels too much. You should have tested this first.

22

Ok this. I don’t know if their grab box increase any or not, but Oil Rocket’s range is absurdly bad compared to what Gief or THawk has. I am out of range of grabbing if I even hit them once using a jab and they block it. I’ve found a better option is to just use an EX rocket by itself, as that has some invincibility I believe, but downside is it requires a bar. It just seems like Hakan has no options without having to use up bars at every turn.

As far as I can tell, Hakan cannot grab people who are crouching using Oil Dive because it only grabs standing or jumping opponents. However I have heard that as a person is getting up, there’s like a frame or two when they are actually standing and cannot avoid the dive, is that true? If it is, that gives me an extra option, however my timing still has to be impeccable to not end up eating dirt.

23

It is true. It’s hard to just eye it. You use set ups. For example, EX rocket, f.hk, lk dive. Also try mp rocket, f.jump, mk dive. Lastly, when oiled, try this tricky but reliable one that I use on a regular basis: Slide-press, (oily) back dash, buffer 360 during back dash into a slight walk forward and EX dive (or mk or hk, depending on your timing and distance). It’s a bit risky, but if you do it only when you need a big come back, and they haven’t seen you do it before, it’s pretty nice thanks to the massive damage. It’ll get jumps and crouches against most characters, too.

24

Oil Rocket’s range is good when you’re oiled. I honestly do not use SPD when I’m dry.

25

We’re talking about Drykan? That’s old news, we’re reaching the 2012 era!

You seriously can’t be complaining about Hakans SPD range, when oiled it’s incredible. When you haven’t got oil I don’t think SPD is something you should be worrying about. People just don’t understand Hakan, but reading your posts…it’s so depressing. Why was a new thread started for this? It’s HAKAN SUX fever all over again. We all remember that. It didn’t help anyone. I’d love to help you but, I help people that want to learn. I don’t think you want to learn, I think you want easy solutions. Sorry, but with Hakan, it’s just not happening.

Anyway, there’s a general discussion thread for this sort of stuff, use it.

Also, Hakan has no tools? Yeah, best stop reading after that.

26

I like Hakan the way he is. Hell, I liked him how he was in SUPER (I was one of the few who managed to get him above 10000BP). The AE buffs are nice, but he was capable even without them. The thing is, he requires a lot of foresight and a lot of knowledge about what the other characters in the game play like.

Like lets say you knocked down a Ryu player after a body press. You’re not oiled, but you still have the options to deal with almost anything he can do.
-If you think he’s going to jump back, you can use heavy punch
-If you think he’s going to Shoryuken (or you want him to) you can do a LK Oil up and bait it
-If you think he’s trying to jump over you, you can jump up and air throw.
-If he hasn’t seen it before you can try to Oil Dive and catch him in the wake up animation
-If he HAS seen the Oil Dive, you can do it, cancel into coward crouch and try to bait a bad move.
-If you think he’s going to try to play defensive but not jump or attack with a normal, you can LK Oil up and go straight into an Oil Rocket
-If you expect back dash or EX tatsu, you can slide at him
-If you want to be unexpected, you can also back up a little so it looks like you’re out of range and do c.MKxxOil Slide or f+MPxxSlide
Not to mention that if you have the threat of Ultra 2 or are oiled up, you can limit his options even more.

Frankly, in some situations, Hakan has MORE options than the other characters. None is as braindead as a Shoryuken but you can really keep your opponent off guard if you understand what he’s expecting. He’s just different because he doesn’t have some EX Spinning Bitd Kick or EX Messiah Kick to use as a buffer for when you have brain farts.

27

Well this is too many “if’s”. I know some characters are supposed to be harder to master but what you just listed is crossing the line for an acceptable guessing game. Knowing when each of the above solutions is appropriate requires that you are so much better than your opponent that you can read his every move.

I’m talking about balance here. A balanced character does not require you to be ten times better than your opponents just to stand on equal footing. That’s why they’re buffing him. It’s not to please people like you who like the game to be hard, it’s to make the entire game more fair. You also need to realize not everyone picked up SSF4 from day one. I just picked up the game 3 weeks ago on Steam. I want to be good with Hakan, I really do, but for guys like me it’s a nightmare trying to pick him up at a time when everyone else already has sufficient knowledge of the game.

If Capcom wants to promote their game as E-Sport material that offers a variety of ways in which players can approach it, then they can’t make certain characters completely inaccessible to newcomers or way too difficult to take to a competitive level. That’s why I say they need to release the buffs ASAP because having really weak characters discourages diversity, and the longer that goes on, the more people are just going to gravitate towards the few top tier ones and then the game becomes a snore-fest.

28

…They’ve already done PLENTY to cater to newcomers and people like you who think characters should be easy to master. Let us have our few technical characters, please. There are 39 characters in this game, if you feel you’re not making any progress with Hakan, move to somebody else.

I’m not going to tell you that Hakan is the best character, but he has all the tools. It just takes more work than most other characters. And thats what I like. The only thing that has kept me on this game is that a year later I still feel there is more to learn, with this character, and I haven’t mastered all of his tools, and abilities. It keeps me hungry. Call it the Ryu complex “I’m still not there…I must train harder!”

Whats great about SF4, is that theres really a character for everyone and the game does cater to a lot of different play styles. There are characters for zoners, rush down, turtlers, mixup guys, combo happy people, pokers. And there are simple characters and there are complex characters. Much more of the former. So as I said before, if Hakan is not your character, he’s not your character. I mean, who knows how many characters I tried to main in this game, failing each time, until I found Hakan…

EDIT: I’m being too nice…this thread is ass. Really, you seem way too lazy to play Street Fighter. This game takes a lot of practice, no matter who you pick.

29

Not really. I’m not a great player. I have terrible execution skill, and yet I managed to get Hakan to over 10,000BP and not fall below it. All you need is to be a quick thinker and keep opponents off guard. If you think that’s too many if’s and want to simplify Hakan’s game more, just think about it like this:

There are 2 aspects to “reading people” with Hakan (And this is the same with almost any character).

  1. Making the opponent scared to stay on the ground, which can be done using Oil Rocket, Oil Slide, and regular throws
  2. Making the opponent scared to jump, which can be done by letting him know your air throw beats almost any air attack and by having Ultra 2.

For example, let’s take Yun. Yun players generally start the match believing that Hakan has no punish for dive kicks. I punish them with the LK Oil Dive once or twice and suddenly they become terrified of jumping and go to the other extreme where they don’t jump at all. In this mode they go into his target combo to knock you down and try to do a palm press when you wake up. However, palm press counts as a projectile and EX Oil Slide beats it every time (even on wakeup). If you’re oiled you can even punish him from full screen when he tried to use them to build meter. Now he’s scared to palm press. Once you have a Yun who can’t jump and can’t easily keep you pressured on wakeup, you can throw him.

That’s incredibly simplified and doesn’t happen like that every time, but it was just can example of how you always have the tools to control the match, even in bad matchups. Hakan doesn’t really need any major buffs right now. The only match that I really think is near impossible to control is against E. Honda.

30

Honda is not really impossible matchup. You can knock him down ( fw. HK) after any blocked headbutt if you are oiled and HP headbutt can always punish with Hp slide. He is weak when he does not have a meter. Just bait out his meter by safe jumping him. After slide+ press knock down, do the mp wife + j.mk fake or real cross up. He will either try to butt pressing ( this will wiff ) or blocks. If you hit him on the front, just continue with 3 hit combo . OS dive for any wiff butt slam which will land next to you.Just punish with cr.mk+ slide. Ex-version is not punishable.

31

There’s a difference between simply being lazy and being frustrated because a character is too difficult to master. It’s fine if Hakan is harder to learn, but against equal ranked players, I expect at least a 3-7 win/loss ratio, not a 0-10…

Not everyone has all the time in the world to sit down and practice Street Fighter for 4-5 hours every day. I picked up the game for $55, I expect to be able to enjoy the game. I’m not just going to go pick another character if one fails because what if I don’t LIKE any of the other characters?

Hakan is not impossible to work with. In fact, I’ve been having more success with him lately after reading some guides. But still, there are glaring weaknesses with the character:

No anti-air (Out of the entire roster, he is the ONLY one. Air grab doesn’t count, I’m talking about specials that can beat normals clean)
No real safe wake-up game
No overhead, making it difficult to pressure people who just crouch block
No quick moves (Some characters like Balrog or Guile can just jab Hakan out of everything)
Requires constant faking out using FA just to bait people into not blocking, at the risk of eating a combo
Requires EX moves in most situations to be effective.
Requires oiling up otherwise options are very limited and range sucks
Difficult to find opportunity to oil under pressure
Oil Dive is practically worthless, EX Oil Dive has no special properties and can be cancelled with a jab, wtf?

This is why patch 2012 is adding:

Oiled at start of match
Oil Dive M and F versions fly over crouching opponents if they whiff
Dash into coward crouch causes Hakan to slide, so that he isn’t required to have a bar or risk eating a DP just to get in on a fireball spammer
Among other things…

32

First off, you got ripped off…the game cost $40 when it came out.

Secondly If you don’t like any other characters and aren’t motivated to try and make Hakan work for you then its simple, you don’t like the game.

And finally…

Really, its not him, its you.

33

This thread needs to go

34

Sighh…indeed it does. I’m done posting in it. Everyone just stop. It’ll sink into the depths of Hades, hopefully.

35

Um, I paid $40 for the game then $15 for the costume packet, so $55.

I like the Street Fighter roster, but at the same time I like to try something new. I was very disappointed when they released SF4 as a complete throwback to the original SF2, with barely any new additions. It felt like it was SF2 3D. So of course when the newer versions came around, I’m going to be only picking the new characters. The characters they included from SSF2 and SF3 don’t really count as “new”, and Seth is just a poor imitation of Urien/Gill, model-wise and lore-wise. Abel is emo and ugly. Rufus is fat and disgusting. C.Viper seems like cheap top-tier stuff I don’t want to touch. And El Fuerte…eh, not exactly what I have in mind when I think of a grappler, though IMO he’s the most interesting one out of the bunch. I tried Juri for a bit, but didn’t really like her low HP, though I’m willing to give her another shot. I mostly only play male characters though, so that pretty much leaves me with Hakan and no one else.

You seem to be suggesting that I’m not allowed to be frustrated with a weak character…

No anti-air (Out of the entire roster, he is the ONLY one. Air grab doesn’t count, I’m talking about specials that can beat normals clean) -* LP slide***
Nope. I mean it does work but it is not a standard AA move, they have to be very close to the ground already for it to hit. Otherwise it doesn’t and it leaves me open when I am getting up. Unsafe.

No real safe wake-up game -* Block, back dash cancel***
Uh everyone can block, that still leaves me in a defensive position. Hakan needs a reversal. Back dash cancel is also available to everyone, but it requires HP. What if I only have a sliver of HP left? Automatic loss? Doesn’t seem fair.

No overhead, making it difficult to pressure people who just crouch block -* If they’re downbacking, tick throw.***
I find tick throws during block only work sometimes, for whatever reason Hakan will whiff the grab at times so it’s not completely reliable. If I want to be in range guaranteed, I have to waste a bar to dash cancel in, but that also gives them a few frames to counter attack, and they usually do.

No quick moves (Some characters like Balrog or Guile can just jab Hakan out of everything) - Hakan has a 4 frame jab, like most of the cast.
I just gave examples of characters that can beat that. 4 frames is not too shabby, but it’s also nothing to rave about. Zangief and THawk both have faster jabs with longer range. Their grabs also have longer range.

Requires constant faking out using FA just to bait people into not blocking, at the risk of eating a combo -* Welcome to the world of grapplers.***
If this was the only issue with Hakan then that would be fine, but it’s not.

Requires EX moves in most situations to be effective. - Absolutely not
EX moves, FADCs, whatever requires bars. Not using any of these is giving the opponent free shots.

Requires oiling up otherwise options are very limited and range sucks - Trade that for how broken he is oiled, and its ok.
Right now he’s paired with THawk in Class E, but if there was a class F, “Drykan” would bear that special title. He’s ass tier dry, oiled he’s only mid-tier. That’s talking on average, I’m not talking about if you’re like Wildcat. Problem here is how difficult it is sometimes to find an opportunity to oil up and stay oiled up. Pressure characters simply don’t let Hakan do this if I’m paired up against someone who knows their stuff. Also, constant oiling up breaks the momentum of the fight, effectively reducing Hakan to a reactive character 90% of the time.

Difficult to find opportunity to oil under pressure - Create your own opportunities. Get that knockdown, and oil up, then keep the pressure on. Thats part of the Hakan battle.
Sure, if they’re bad. If they’re good, hello? Block stun? Can’t do anything during that except block more. They have to finish a combo and not knock me back far enough to where my grabs won’t connect for an opportunity to be presented. Oil Slide is highly predictable and usually doesn’t work against good players. Oil Dive intuitively should be something good in that scenario but it turns out it’s trash.

Oil Dive is practically worthless, EX Oil Dive has no special properties and can be cancelled with a jab, wtf? - there are LOTS of setups to make Oil Dive perfectly worth while.
Really? Like what? As long as they don’t stand up, how is Oil Dive going to catch them?

36

Hold up. People actually play with Hakan? That’s the most shocking thing I’ve heard today.

37

Tofu. I’m just going to say you’re wrong about some of those points. Mainly anti-air because I don’t let anyone jump in on my Hakan, his special attacks arent to be relied upon for anti-air. The best moves are normals but they call for certain situations. As a side note, his EX SPD as well as his both of his Ultra combos negate the use of safe jumps.

Secondly, wake-up. Hakan has fewer options dry but has more when he’s oiled, for example: EX SPD (Strike invincibility), EX DDT (Throw invincibility), EX Oil Up/Oil Slide (Usable when dry, Projectile Invincibility) Back Dash Normal Cancel (IMO his strongest wake up option, but not to be abused), Blocking.

It’s really necessary to block when it comes to Hakan, part of design is that he has a lot of life to compensate for this plus the highest amount of life in the game when he is oiled up. Choosing when to stop blocking and start attacking is part of who he is.

Also I don’t understand why you’re complaining about how he needs to use meter to get in. Hakan builds meter quite quickly, certainly a lot faster than the average character and he continuously builds it if you’re up close pressuring. His meter building is on par with the likes of Abel.

Oil dive set ups exist, while I personally don’t use them too much Mordie-Kai here on SRK is practically the Oil Dive Professor. I’d suggest you take another look at Oil Dive’s applications and research the damn move before badmouthing it.

I have feeling you’re trying to play Hakan in a one dimensional way hence why you’re losing so much. Think outside the box - for example, yes good players don’t eat slide but how often do they block and retaliate when you’re plus frames? That means free SPD or Ultra. Are they jumping out after a blocked slide? Oil dive negates that mix up and greatly benefits you in positioning and knockdown options. Don’t want to risk the dive? Try Standing heavy punch for a strong swat attack. Is your opponent over turtling or running away? OIL UP.

38

I lol’ed.

39

Apparently SF isn’t for you. Might I suggest connect 4?

40

Kid, you obviously don’t even play Hakan. Or if you do you’re obviously ‘that guy’ that just spams fullscreen slide all day and hopes for the best.To be fair, it sounds like you don’t even understand Street Fighter in the broader context.
Nearly everything you’ve said about Big Red is false, not even debatable, outright false.

Play Yun if you want an easy ride against 99% of the cast, if not, leave the rest of us to enjoy our game/character, and learn your shit before you cry about it.

Delete this mess.