EX Knee will also be a great reversal post-patch as it actually WILL hit crouchers.
There’s actually a lot of misunderstanding with this, it’s the FOLLOWUP that hits crouchers, ex knee itself won’t.
Will Adante be a good anti air in 2013? i mean i use it all the time…
checks list again
Fuck, you’re right. Oh well…
If you sense a jump yeah. It’s 8 frames now but lots it’s air crush property so you can actually trade with it now.
I would say the best anti airs to use come patch are…
Cr.hp 7 frames start up and 7 frames active, if you trade it’s 90 damage for you.
st.mk is another anti air that has retained it’s air crush properties buuuut it’s much slower than the new andante and cr.hp. Use this move if you sense a jump coming from a mile away.
lp. counter will stop any jump attempt that isn’t a cross up. Very very strong anti air that isn’t very use much by lili’s now cause of andante. The idea is that you get 80 meter now if you land a counter so that’s pretty much incentive to use it and not to mention out of the three listed anti airs above lp counter gives you a nice juicy hard knockdown.
Ex angel knee. If someone jumps at you and you have knee let it rock. 110 damage for both knee and ascension and you can follow up with it, too good to pass up.
Lili won’t suffer because of the anti air nerf, if anything it’s having us look for other more damaging anti air options.
I’m guessing Adante will be like nina’s current cr.hp. If that is the case than thats actually ok. I have been using lp counter i just need to time it better.
walk back buffer with lp+lk, it’s an os as well. Covers jumps ins and empty jumps. Grab will obviously come out first if you press the buttons together but if you buffer halfway the theory is the Os will cover both options. Requires some lab practice but if you master it you can use it to cover both reads. Sometimes though mp counter works if the jump in is deep but lp counter specifically fucks up front jump ins.
I usually use her lp counter now along with Adante. Lp counter is really good because i can start fiesty rabbit cross ups and mix it up.
Something that popped into my head which I forgot to mention about v.2013 Lili whilst I was studying French today. Coincidence?
I think this could be well known already but st.:mp: or cr.:mp: on counter hit links into :f:+:lk: (1st hit of Dominating Heel.)
And I’ve been struggling with doing auto-correct EX Knee as an anti air. Any tips you guys can give me to help me get it consistently?
That said though. Currently loving the ability to land Pandora Misogi mid-screen. Give it some time but there could be a Pandora Misogi finish soon (albeit at a somewhat downgraded level because its so easy to combo into now) by doing EX Knee > Jump Cancel > Pandora :).
I posted this in the 2013 thread, but thought I should probably just post it here instead. copy & paste comin in hottttt.
So i’m thinking about playing Kazuya/Lili… I’m not really sure what type of character lili is but apparently she’s a high/low machine, right? I previously played Sagat/Kazuya, but I’m probably going to switch Kaz to point and have lili behind. Like i said i don’t know much about her yet but how is her neutral game? I feel like her normals are a little eeh. Pretty good c.mk, but not really rewarding aside from chaining, and with chained attacks being nerfed on block I’m not too sure how that changed her.
What is the importance of dominating heel? How do you apply that into your game? 1st hit seems so negative on block… I don’t understand :\
Overall I’m having a hard time understanding how to play this character. I feel unsafe, and unable to continue pressure after certain things, and feel hopeless in the neutral game. Uggh ;__;
edit: Okay so I’m guessing dominating heel is used just to force-stand when out of range of a c.hp combo? (for example j.mk c.lk, c.lp, dominating heel xx knee?) What is the optimal combo btw? Is it knee, knee, c.hp xx lk sunflower?
As a Dhalsim x Jack player, I would really love some tips on how to fight Lili. How should Dhalsim deal with the drill pressure, how punishable is the non ex overhead special with and without the follow up, what beats the ex overhead special you use for reversal and leads in to a mixup, and is nearly impossible to block if you tag cancel it + impossible to alpha counter in the beginning of the move?
Is the ex leap through the air 100% full screen? Any tips at all would be appreaciated, as I feel like my characters can’t figth Lili at all (Dhalsim has a fighting chance if Lili does not have meter, but after that it feels like a very bad matchup)
Also, I am thinking about learning Lili because I think she is way too strong in v2013, and if you can’t beat them, join them, right? Is Jin a good point character with Lili as anchor?
Ok so my answer could kind of suck just because I ain’t really a Dhalsim or a Jack-X player. In fact my experience with fighting both of these two is next to zilch.
That said, I can answer the other parts to some extent.
I’m assuming by non ex overhead special with and with-out the follow-up you are talking about her ‘spin’ type move: Feisty Rabbit: ( :qcb: + :k: ). The key thing to note about the move is that if she spins in your face you’ll want to hit her during her recovery period which is about the time when she lands again on the ground. You should be able to counter hit her out of her overhead follow-up if she tries it. I should know because the amount of people who mashed out jabs from that spin against me was insane pre-patch. The move hasn’t changed a bit with v.2013.
By EX Overhead Special I’m assuming you mean EX Sunflower Lance ( :qcf: + :2k: ). I believe that the move is only projectile invincible so you can hit her out of it on start-up. There’s also a gap in between the two hits allowing you to stick an invincible reversal in between the hits as well.
The ‘EX Leap’ your talking about I’m assuming means EX Divine Step. Think Akuma EX Demon Flip. This move tracks from where-ever you are when she starts the move and its also an overhead. It isn’t invincible by any means but its pretty fast. Generally Lili players tend to ‘Tiger Knee’ the move to get past fireballs much more efficiently.
Learning Lili can be a little tricky but that’s like every time someone learns a new character in any fighting game, she takes some time to get used to. Thinks back to all of those losses in the past :oops:.
The Jin/Lili team is quite strong. What made the team stronger in the past was the Jin re-stand off of L.L.R.K ( :f: , :d: , n , :df: + :k: .) but don’t get me wrong, they have good set-ups (Jin: Median Line Destruction ( :f:, 
, :f:, + :p: ) and Lili’s ( :hp: Den ( :qcf: + :hp: ), good ways to counter zoners and can do some good damage both as a team and solo.
Although you may find that somewhat poor wake-up options could be a problem. They don’t have 3 frame, invincible, shoto DPs of the sort. They are both somewhat susceptible to heavy pressure tactics.
Hope this helps somewhat…
Now if only I could find get some Jack-X or Dhalsim experience. Sucks to be limited by different consoles at times :(.
Okay. I’m REALLY enjoying Kaz/Lili now. Kaz doesn’t user meter thanks to ewgf, so he is able to build all that meter for Lili. Neutral game is still a little weird with her, but it’s getting better. I absolutely love andante, and f+mk. My only problem is that I need to train myself to replace c.mp with s.lp in combos. I’m dropping C.mp-> f+lk(1frame) too consistently. F+mk -> mp, s.lp, f+lk (2frame) is too consistent. I can get ewgf out 98% of the time, but drop C.mp -> dominating heel 50% of the time. Very upsetting ;_;
My only gripe is with her supers/cross art. So what is up with Lili and her ability to combo into super/cross art? Is this combo character specific or something? (anything into Knee, knee, c.hp super/cross art.) Sometimes it fully connects, sometimes it doesn’t. For example with the super, for it to fully connect I believe 2 of the attacks hit, 3rd whiffs and then the 4th hits for the full animation. When it doesn’t fully connect, that 3rd attack actually hits, and then 4th attack whiffs. (Hopefully I’m making sense, with all these hits/attacks/whiffs) I wasn’t sure if I was just timing my c.hp incorrectly or if it is a character specific thing.
I do feel myself relying too much on F+mk in footsies though, and am getting blown up by neutral jumps. Like I stated before, I hate that her c.mk isn’t rewarding. I know there’s c.mp xx s.hp, but that s.hp range is just so weak.
Glad you are enjoying playing the character. You’re making me feel pretty jealous since I haven’t touched this patch since the day it came out due to studies.
You can still use that cr.:mp: > :f: + :lk: combo so long as you feel confident with using it but I would agree with you. Maybe its just me but I prefer reliability in a combo over its damage. Well unless you are feeling yourself in the match.
Ok so about that Super of hers. I’ll be honest with you to combo into it solo is quite annoying just because of the way it activates. Personally you have two good ways of landing her Super they are:
Combo 1: :lk: Angel Knee x2 ( :dp: + :lk: ) > Heavy Languish (2 hits) ( :d: + :mp: > :hp: ) > Super
Combo 2: :lk: Angel Knee ( :dp: + :lk: ) > cr.:hp: > :hp: Den ( :qcf: + :hp: ) > Super
Combo 1 is the most reliable way to land her super in my opinion. The first couple hits will whiff but you’ll get the last two in to get the full animation. So long as that ‘knee’ portion connects, you’ll get the full animation.
Combo 2 is a little harder but it does more damage. You’ll get all of the hits into her Super no problem. This combo worked in 1.07 so it should still work here.
The key with landing this combo is to wait until her hand from performing the :hp: Den retracts back from there you should be able to connect the Super no problem.
Although, no offense, in my opinion her super is very finicky to combo into. Hence I prefer to stick with switching into her partner since they can do more damage than her super in a combo provided that you know the right set-ups.
Don’t get me wrong, that doesn’t mean that you should never use it though, if anything I’d say do what you believe is best for you. Ending a match with it looks really cool and its a good time waster, it also shines whilst in Pandora as well.
Also because she poses at the end of it, some people (especially those who don’t know Lili well) assume that she is open so they may do something stupid like roll towards you or jump at you to which you can just AA it or throw them out of the roll. It was a lovely v.2012 tactic I would use after a super. Not sure if it works as effectively now because of the roll changes.
The combo I’ve highlighted in bold in your post should work when it comes to landing her Cross Art (unless Capcom changed her juggle points or something like that.)
As for tackling neutral jumpers with that :f:+:mk: you could consider throwing in a delayed :mp: follow-up to catch some neutral jumpers and float them into a full combo if they try to continously neutral jump your poke? Sorry I still need some lab time with this version so this statement is PURE theory fighter.
Ok so with further testing I can get super to whiff the way I was explaining, on big bodies (Hugo, marduk) with this combo: anything xx knee, knee, c.hp xx super. I’ve tested the combo on a few characters and it’s fully connecting (ironically this is frustrating me because I swear I’ve had this whiff more often then not, but i guess I shouldn’t complain.)
I tried the 2 combos you listed, and I’ve managed to do the 2nd combo you posted, but haven’t been able to get that 1st. Super NEVER connects for me after D+mp -> HP -__-
Thx again for your replies though 8)
super is iffy. can’t usually do it off a normal in a juggle, she tends to whiff the last hit. Lili needs to land it either on a standing opponent, off a juggle, Hp dendrobium during a juggle, f.mk>mp during a juggle, lk angel knee, off ex dendrobium, off ex lance> cr.mp>f.hp chain, and off ex fr to rabbit thorn.
I have been digging arund the forums, but I am having trouble finding some of Lili’s unblocakble tech. Could someone please let me know where to find it or give a brief explaination?
Sorry, i’m trying to my time easying into all of her stuff slowly so the whole lot of lilis can grow together. If you want to jump the gun and explore some of her unblockable stuff i suggest learning to space j.lk to mk air chain and j.mp to hp <=== much harder unblockable. All of them best work in the corner. She has some dive kick ones but they work best on taller guys, you’d use hk dk for that one.
[media=youtube]mAvHg0wWOh8[/media]
You can use this as a tool to build an option select (OS).
Note, you can’t safe jump 3 frame reversals. So forget about safe jumping Shoto DP and Sagat’s EX DP.
Tapatalk…How the hell do I use it??
Resurrection!
Not sure if this is common knowledge or not, but I’ve found that if you do two consecutive Feisty Rabbits you can cancel the recovery of the second with any of Lili’s specials. This applies to all versions of the move, even EX can be whiff canceled. Best use for this knowledge that I have found would be to use 2x EX FR xxx Dendrobium (71 chip) as a reliable way to score chip and be relatively safe. Note that between the first and second EX FR you can easily be reversaled assuming the opponent has the correct move, otherwise EX FR will usually stuff any normals thrown out, in which case you can cancel into an Angel Knee combo for 444 damage (?). More often then not people are expecting a FR follow-up after blocking so you can sneak in an EX FR rather easy. An expensive but strong way to get great chip.
Also has some unique (not optimal) combo applications.
I’ve also noticed the properties of a second FR, most notably the EX FR, are slightly different. Instead of just 5 chip the damage raises to 12. If people already know this, I’m curious as to if the frame data is in any way different/more or less safe follow-ups on block?