thats true, its something unique to fighting games. i dont see why its such a problem though.
Thing is, fighting games are largely player-driven.
Sometimes, the developers can’t wonder what the gamestyle of the game would turn out, because it’s the players who define the style the game’s going to be played, as they found inimaginable ways to exploit the minimal features of the game. Developers simply can’t predict that.
More content, and meaningful content at that, would be nice. Having ‘missions’ that have requirements would help making useful content as well. It’s happened in other fighters and is a good teaching tool. Not having to go online to be taught the game is nice. It’s been stated that having more modes, not ‘easier’ mechanics is the way to get people to buy your game. I know a dude that bought SFV because of the rapper that endorsed it, but hasn’t played it past the first week, lol.
One frame links are the reason why SFIV developed into an execution fighter rather than one that revolved around a complete strategy. SFV, as shit as it can get, has more strategy in it (barring Chun-Li/Ryu/Mika nonsense) than SFIV ever did. SFIV’s very high execution barrier scared off people interested in playing the game, so much so that when SFV came out. people jumped on and stayed on. 1F links were the bane to the games existence. Not OS, not FADC combos (those too were a huge issue to execution but I digress) but 1F links. until plinking was discovered, 1F links were unbearable on anyone that wasn’t a top tier player. Casual players who wanted to learn SFIV were given 2 barriers to break through, 1F links, and FADC combos.
Lets compare this to Marvel. MvC2 is a SCARY game to learn, and you should get used to being mauled online by players who have been playing it for years. However, newbies aren’t as scared of learning MvC2 compared to SFIV. The reasoning is simple. SFIV is a boring, boring game to learn in training mode. Constant 1F links into FADC with some characters can really kill accessibility for a game. MvC2 isn’t as difficult to understand as SFIV, but why is it harder to learn? Character matchups and strategy. MvC2’s combinations of characters and depth with its small amount of top tiers, have given the game more depth than SFIV will ever have. Are both games fun? Depends on the person, but neither are bad games. MvC3 ALMOST went the route of SFIV, but like MvC2, character depth won the day again, even though both are high execution games, they are no where NEAR required on the execution level that SFIV is. I can do fly/unfly combos and I consider those easier to do than than any 1F link in SFIV with plinking. They were also more fun to learn because visually, they just look better than a basic 1F link in SFIV.
why are you concerned about other peoples’ concerns.
this shit is mind boggling. there will always be people interested in fighting games.
as long as there is a community, what else matters?
growth is overrated because of shit like twitch.
We’re doomed.
I’m glad
daigo must’ve missed the memo. kudos to him for at least trying to entice new blood.
ps: from what ive read so far in this thread, there’s a reason why everybody remembers daigo, but people still need to google up who KO is.
If it were to “happen now” then by definition it’d be the same story.
Exactly. Only Tekken.
It’s only a problem if you believe that attracting new players is important.
I disagree. SF4 had tons of strategy. It’s just that the strategy revolved around option-selects and setups rather than footsies and reads. Also it was locked away behind an execution barrier so most players never experienced it. At the beginner to intermediate level it was way more rewarding to exploit the spotty netcode and difficulty of execution to get wins. Why would you ever practice footsies and defence when you can easily mash DP or SPD while your opponent is doing a combo and get rewarded with an Ultra if he drops it? To go from intermediate level SF4 to high level, you counter-intuitively needed to play in a way that would cause you to lose a lot more games for a long time before slowly getting better.
MVC2 was a great game to play, though, I agree. I played thousands upon thousands of games in the arcade, then thousands more in the PS3 port. I didn’t know how to play Colossus so I literally spent ten minutes in training mode to get a basic air combo down and learned the rest actually playing online against other players.
If you believe this, then the entire thread is pointless for you.
You know, I was just thinking about this last night. I’ve played Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, and Street Fighter. SF is the only game I’ve ever really bounced off of, so to speak; couldn’t get over the wall. I think I get why: doing basic shit is really hard in fighting games.
Dark Souls, you hit a button or two to swing your sword around. Here’s a block button. Here’s a dodge button. Here’s two meters to watch. That’s it. All the complexity is wrapped up in how to use your weapon well, and what your opponent is doing. The complicated bits are wrapped up in the challenge of fighting something else.
Monster Hunter, it’s a little more complex; it’s stiff, the control scheme is a little odd, there’s more to learn. This has more of a learning curve, I think, putting it a little closer to fighting games. Still, you learn by playing the game, going out and killing progressively bigger and bigger dinosaurs and wearing their skin like a murderous caveman.
Street Fighter? Well, better grind training mode to be able to get decent damage out. Or learn to anti-air consistently. Or how to pull off a shoryuken as opposed to a hadoken. I think that’s fighting game’s big flaw; the act of learning doesn’t seem to have much to do with going out and fighting people! At least, not at first, you know? That comes a lot later, it feels like. And not even having consistent access to your tools while you learn? Rough. Fighting games as they are are a really, really hard sell. I get not everyone wants them to be more accessible, but I also don’t understand why not being able to access your tools right away, or needing a specialized controller to play naturally, or having a lot of gimmicks or mechanics to learn are virtues. Aren’t fighting games about fighting people?
All of those games offer a different experience. MH isn’t even PVP at all, and DS is mostly PVE with some shallow PVP. Ultimately DS and MH don’t offer anything close to what a fighting game offers, so I don’t understand how that is a relevant comparison.
Yeah don’t bother to elaborate on why or anything like that.
Here’s something that hasn’t been mentioned yet: in more popular genres it always feels like you’re only one game away from improving.
Like, say I am playing Hearthstone against SSJ4randoman69. I lose because he plays randoCard, which my deck cannot deal with. After the match I can immediately adjust my deck by replacing a couple of my cards with different ones that are better against randoCard. Or maybe I can switch classes entirely to one better suited to beating him.
“Watch out , SSJ4randoman69, when I fight you again I will be prepared and you will taste defeat!”
Similar things are present in most popular types of competitive games. You can use a different gun in FPS games, or even a different hero in Overwatch or class Team Fortress. You can change tactics or races in Starcraft pretty quickly. Sure, maybe Zerg isn’t my “main” but the system is simple enough that I could probably implement a rush that would exploit a vulnerable opponent.
Now imagine you’ve spent 2-3 weeks learning Birdie because you think chains are cool. You go online and get bodied. You find that Birdie was ill-suited for winning after all, and your opponents are all playing stronger characters with better tools. What can you do right now to hopefully start winning? Nothing. You’re stuck with Birdie for the forseeable future until you can learn a different character, or better Birdie strats. I guess if you have a ton of fighting game experience under your belt you could watch the replay, recreate your loss in training mode and figure out how to block the mix-up or beat the setup or whatever. But for beginners they don’t have that option. It’s back to the lab or keep losing.
“Watch out , SSJ4randoman69, when I fight you again in another 2-3 weeks I will be prepared and you will taste defeat!” <- not so good for keeping up player interest
See, when I feel that victory is only one more try away it makes me lose interest and feel like it’s not even worth pursuing. That goes for single player games even. If victory is THAT close to being achievable it just feels pointless because it just isn’t fun to have victory be that easy. I mean, I do think there’s a balance to be had but it’s better to be just a bit too hard than to be so easy that victory feels like only one more try away. In a multi-player game it just means it’s that close for anyone. And if it’s that close for anyone that might mean there isn’t enough separating the chaff from the people who actually have developed a skill
Basically, I’m just talking in terms of learning a challenging game. DS and MH make the process a lot smoother than any fighting game, is what I’m getting at there.
it takes a really self-absorbed person to write a fuckin essay and then say “and don’t bother replying, I won’t read your reply”
like wow you’re so cool buddy
just kidding
This all boils down to people being lazy, pussies, and not knowing how to handle losing. It’s a product of the new generation, who need instant gratification and receive participation trophies for everything. They don’t want to put in any time to get good at something and want to be a grand master within an hour of turning the game on. After they play, whether they win or lose, they want to get a reward for it since that’s what they have gotten their whole lives.
Obviously that doesn’t mean EVERYONE who doesn’t play fighting games is like that, but it’s more of a generalization. And I fully realize fighting games aren’t for everyone.
Also, fighting games are different in that it’s literally just you vs. your opponent, and you have a strict set of rules you are following. There is no random shit, no AI, no luck, or no other teammates to help you out. You simply win if you play better, and you win lose if you don’t. This is another thing a lot of people new to fighting games can’t handle, they are used to being carried by other people and getting a win even if they don’t do much.
So many things wrong with the OP but I will just touch on two. #1 You don’t need a stick. Most of the top placing players in SFV in Detroit like NS Footwurk, Sethlolol, DevilChipp, CORN|JWE L Train Locomotive, JWE Samrican, and many others are playing on pad. #2 MvC3 had a simplified mode that allowed new players to acces stuff outside there ability.
MH and DS are nowhere near as hard to get into as a fighter. I just don’t think anything about those games is relevant.
Kids have always been that way.
It’s not “the new generation” or some stupid shit that makes the kids nowadays lazy and spoiled. They’ve always been that way and you guys sound like fucking grandpas complaining that kids nowadays are all assholes.
When I was a kid I knew a couple of other kids who were shit at video games, would break their controllers over DuckTales and shit, and ask me to beat games for them.
The weird part is that developers nowadays think, that these retards would stop playing and buying games if they don’t make 'em easier to beat.
Well that is not true. They’d still buy their favorite video games, but just wouldn’t beat them cuz they suck, just as they don’t beat a lot of the easy games they have because they get bored of them.
You can’t patch in patience and passion into people, but you can make games a lot more boring for people that have that.