So double tapping in other SF games removed depth as well??
What does that have to do with depth?
People drop combos in SFV at almost the same rate as they do in SFV, because dropping a combo doesn’t come down to being bad at execution, it comes down to not being able to take the pressure of a match anymore.
All that 1-frame links add, is the need to constantly have to focus on practicing them. That’s just artificial depth.
What you say is like saying riding a bicycle has more depth than driving a car.
Makes no sense at all. Depth is comes from the options one has both on offense, defense and in the neutral game and how all that interacts with each other.
The Smash game that had tripping isn’t even relevant in the competitive scene anymore for that reason. That shit isn’t bout skill or depth it’s just random shit people have to deal with, which is also a common complaint about SFV, where it seems that a lot of things are out of your control and come down to a roll of the dice, because most characters have shit normal buttons that makes it hard to control the mid to close range and as a result everything is played so close up with so much potential damage.
It’s no surprise that pro players tend to gravitate towards characters that have longer range normals or some sort of control over the neutral (Guile, Chun, Necalli), or the other extreme, characters that make you guess so often that you’ll eventually get overwhelmed (Mika, Ken etc.).
I like games where most of the time the better player wins, and a noob can never beat a grand master.
Otherwise I’d be asking myself what the fuck I’m even training for, if some random retard can beat Daigo Umehara at some fucking release show.
That’s also why I’m not playing SFV a lot anymore. I’ve scrubbed out wins vs Ryan Hart, ISDD and other really hard working European SF players online, and even if it’s just one win, I have no business taking anything from these people, since in SF2 or SF4 these people would’ve shit over me 100-0.
Random isn’t fun in competitive games, leave that shit to World of Warcraft.
One frame links just add another layer of random to games, since it’s not possible to get them right every time and I rather see people dropping combos because they can’t take the heat rather then 1/60 of a second fucking them up.
One frame punishes and combos are garbage imo.
All pinking did was make sf4 bearable. Even the people with the best execution were tired of that bullshit. The depth wasnt in the one frame link, it was in the number of links. Sf4 characters had a bunch of wacky links.
Seriously though. 
I feel the same way. That is why I don’t understand game designers trying to make the fighting “game” more accessible. Even if you remove the execution barrier, the practice/experience you have should take you to victory. Granted, execution is what makes fighters unique. If that wasn’t a part of the genre, I would have no interest in it. This is why Davod Sirloin and I could never be best friends. I can’t just play chess or card games.
Difficult execution adds depth to fighting games, therefore any technique that makes execution easier or more consistent reduces depth. Science.
Remember how deep the UMVC3 gameplay was back when people used to drop lightning loops and doom-finites? When they used to drop Morrigan unflies? Back when Vergil loops were “hard”? Compare it to the shallow gameplay we have now that players are more consistent. It’s basically trash. That’s why Marn was the true UMVC3 god. He intentionally didn’t learn how to lightning loop both sides to preserve the depth.
Just look at this face:
Is that the face of a man enjoying deep technical gameplay? No. That is the face of a man bored out of his mind. Sako has the best execution in the world, so he experiences the shallowest gameplay of us all. Let’s all spare a moment to reflect on how Sako has been turned into a shell of the man he once was, thanks to Capcom catering to whiny casuals who wanted a 3-frame window to press buttons. MVCI should bring back one-frame links to Make Sako Great Again.
EDIT:
If you really think about it, this is really the fault of the current generation. Their laziness and sense of entitlement, coupled with Capcom’s inexplicable desire to sell copies of their games to people outside of the FGC have ruined fighting games completely. Back in the day my friends and I couldn’t play outside unless we did our homework first. This is basically the same thing. Do your homework, '16-ers.
Note to self:
- Find graphic artist to design new MVC, SF packaging with “plays just like homework!” in prominent blurbs
- Pitch to Capcom
- ???
- Save FGC
Umm, the gameplay is shallow because the game is literally broken and never got patched, not because the players improved…
But think of how deep it could be if the players couldn’t do combos. Or even better, couldn’t do special moves!
I’ve seen the light.
What if we kept the easy combos though and added something like instant knockouts to add depth?
EA sells millions of copies of their UFC games, which are basically the best fighting games due to the huge amount of depth they offer by not only having instant kos but also body part damage and a cool story mode.
Yeah, we shouldn’t forget.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPTts0UOVVk
And Street Fighter V is so damn pro.
The learning curve for MOBA/FPS games are different from FGs but I’m sure there’s no such thing as a first timer trashing the other team in Dota 2. Either genre of competitive games demands the same dedication to get better.
Way I see it, Fighting Games is to UFC while FPS/MOBA games is to the NBA. Conor McGregor and Lebron James are big names in their respective careers, but guess who:
- gets paid the bigger bucks?
- takes the bigger risk?
After answering the above, consider these:
-
Do we want FG events to be as big as that CoD/Dota 2 tourney? What does it need?
-
Do we want to the FG community to keep growing? What do we need to do?
I think the answer for 2 is fairly obvious (at least Daigo’s trying something).
If you want your fgc to grow show up to locals and tournaments. Pretty simple.
People ask “what can we do?” But dont DO anything aside from playing online. Playing online wont make the fgc grow
Getting competent at Dota 2 requires dedicating yourself to playing Dota 2. Getting competent at SF requires dedicating yourself to training mode.
No, and no.
nevermind the OP’s inability to do a qcf + PPP command but if we keep this mentality, then we just proved the OP’s points; expect the FG genre to go extinct or be brought down into obscurity and also give the game dev community the message that making FGs is not profitable. Meanwhile, COD clone # XV would be released, rake in money and maintain a steady community of loyalists.
it is. in my experience, the (offline) community is (usually) more hospitable than MOBA pub rooms*. and this is how mvc:i would go “mainstream”.
- so long as you ain’t a **** like *******.
YES. BIG YES.
Way I understand the OP, regardless if you’re a Pro EVO player or midnight couch gamer (because the kids are asleep), either player profile needs an outlet to validate their dedication. One gets validated by performing well in tourneys while the other manages get to Player X’s ending on X difficulty.
Pfft. Who cares? All that really means is that fighting games will only be played by enthusiasts, and big companies won’t be able to profit from it. Which means the games themselves will be higher in quality since they will ONLY be by enthusiasts for enthusiasts without needing to pander to new audiences with useless content that takes time and money away from making the game better. This means indie fighting devs like me will still have a market while the big companies can’t continue to release incomplete bullshit like SF5 and still expect to sell. COD clone whatever would be released? Flawed point. Fighting games are not directly competing with shooters, both of them have their own niche.
Not at all seeing the downside.
training mode isnt everything. you can get a killer msp in training mode and still lose to footsies. stop overrating combos. darkcloud is one of the best mvc1 players and he doesnt infinite or do anything fancy. you still have to play thousands of matches to understand matchup experience
Or it could be like the eight years or so between CVS2 and SF4, when Tekken was the only franchise regularly coming out with new titles. That could happen too.
The “thousands of matches to understand matchup experience” is a non-issue. The problem is in the weeks of training mode needed just to get to the point where you can learn something from playing a match. We’re not talking about infinites here, people. For newbies doing a dragon punch to the right on stick might as well be a Lightning Loop.
Go to reddit. Search for threads on coaching sessions. 99% of the time Gootecks or whoever are just giving generic advice like “work on your execution”, “stop mashing” or “learn how to anti-air”. Is it because they have nothing better or more insightful to teach? No, it’s because the players they are coaching need to sink a lot more time into training mode before any unique insights from a pro player can be useful to them.
Not true. Back then we didn’t have as much internet connectivity, we didn’t have Steam, and we were all too young and inexperienced to develop and publish our own games. That has all changed, so if this were to happen now it’d be an entirely different story.
Yup, only Tekken