edit nvm link already posted
SFA2 Japan Nationals (from way back when)
homepage: http://walhall.sakura.ne.jp
movie page: http://walhall.sakura.ne.jp/movie.html
(scroll down to where it says “STREET FIGHTER ZERO2 Championship” and get all of the “Download” links below it)
commentary:
These videos are not new, but i thought it would be relevant to the earlier discussion about SFA3 nationals. SFA2 was actually very popular in America and a lot of people still prefer it over SFA3. On the other hand, Japan pretty much hates the game and after A3 was released they totally dropped A2. Most Japanese A3 players just don’t like playing A2. It kinda goes to show you the difference in tastes between the two player bases. I could probably say that Japan prefers technical fighters whereas A2 is all about footsies and momentum, but that’s way oversimplifying it.
In any case, there is kind of an ironic parallel here. We’ve always classified the A2 top tier as consisting of the “top four” of Ryu, Ken, Chun Li, and Rose. Of the four, Chun Li is easily the most robotic and definately has the most straightforward advantages. Her CC is really simple and does like 40% damage at lvl1. All you do is activate, then mash on c.HK and she’ll do sweep into 98273987234 hits with lightning legs, then you finish off with upkick.
If you watch the finals in this tournament, it’s Chun Li vs Chun Li and they’re both using a lot of the same tactics. On the other hand, B3 in America ended with Alex Valle’s Ryu vs John Choi’s Ken and in the last match Valle switched over to Sagat. Our tournament was actually really exciting. Their tournament is pretty boring. It sure seems like Chun Li killed A2 for them because they could never get past her. Isn’t it weird that the same character killed 3S for us because we could never get past her? It took years before we heard about how Japan had finally found ways to get around her. You gotta wonder if maybe Japan would be playing A2 now if they had gotten ahold of a B3 tape way back then.
Anyway Ohnuki ended up winning the A2 nationals and it looks like he was barely a toddler at the time. I’d guess like 15 yrs old? And he’s still winning tournaments. None of our players stay active that long. They’re lucky because they get a lot of prestige for doing it whereas we practically have to hide the fact that we’re good at video games.
CvS2 Rolento Randomness
homepage: http://www.crazyasskim.com
movie page: http://www.crazyasskim.com/cvs2_vids.htm
commentary:
It seems Kim likes jabs for some reason. He hasn’t written up the explanation so maybe it’s supposed to be a mystery or something. Any of you guys know what’s going on? Pop quiz Keanu!
If you haven’t seen his older vids, all of the matches are really good and the Blanka combo video is pretty creative. On the other hand, American Dad sucks and i don’t understand why people promote the half-assed second-rate efforts of a writer/producer who’s obvious cashing in on the success of his primary show (which was a cheap ripoff of the Simpsons to begin with).
Japanese KOF `95 batch set
http://www.hameko.net/uploader/upload.php?page=all
You’re supposed to be looking on this page for hame_3573.lzh and hame_3593.lzh.
I’m too lazy to translate it, but the first link seems to be from a 2005 (!) tourney in Japan at Alphastation? There’s a html file in it which explains the characters and how the bracketing went. Dunno about the 2nd link, it’s a large compilation of matches too (all in all, about 60+ matches iirc.)
This stuff is particularly interesting to me because good kof95 footage is hard to come by, and i dont see high level vids of the game very often. When I was playing the game, I was playing it at a casual level and I didn’t know about any of these tactics, even to this day. I remember back during the OG days, a lot of SF players liked KOF95 because it had a lot of attributes that were similar to the SF series - ie, strong antiair game, somewhat of a footsie game, (poking had a much larger emphasis back in the earlier KOF games, which is the basis of a strong positioning game, which SF players love). There also was a stronger (normal) throw game back in the early days of KOF due to the fact that you couldn’t tech normal grabs (later on in the series, normal throw breaks were stupid easy.) This KOF also has a much, much higher emphasis on meaty attacks as opposed to the later kof games (which again, is very similar to SF.) Then the series took a turn in 96 and beyond, which laid the foundation for the new school KOF’s that some of us here play today.
If you wanna see OG KOF action than download this video. There seems to be so many tricks in this game (weird, weird, ambiguous and other crossup tricks that i found VERY interesting) like Iori’s DP crossing up if done meaty on a knockdown? Kyo doing weird side switching tricks that goes through the body on knockdown (like close sidestep attack crossing up a knocked opponent and hitting them from BEHIND??) or mai doing her hcf+k rush move to ambiguously cross up a knocked down opponent on their head? btw these are only a few examples, theres much more in the videos, it would really take me the whole day to list them all. Really interesting stuff if you’re used to seeing standard high level play from the more modern KOF games, then you go back to watching this. :lol:
Even the combos in this video are very interesting, since theyre so different from the newer KOF’s. Apparently in this video, theyre using some kind of cancelling technique to cancel limbs to gain frame advantage, which can then be used to extend combos, or in rushdown tech (clearest example of this is when you watch the Joe players,) or some of the Yuri matches (yuri cancelling her low rh puts her back in neutral state immediately), but theres examples with every character. Good matches too, and a fairly diverse cast of characters, so youll be somewhat entertained. The whole alpha counter system works completely different too (you can even alpha counter into supers, apparently.) Again, I only played 95 casually when I didn’t know anything about more of the advanced tech, but it seems to be a whole other level i was missing.
BTW, it’s interesting to note that the secret 95 characters arent banned in this tournament. There’s footage of someone playing Omega Rugal in the first link. I always though Saisyu was legit, but I wasn’t sure about Omega Rugal, I assumed he was overpowered (never broke it down enough.) So I was wondering if the hidden chars were banned in tourneys, but only softbanned in japan (just like how ST Akuma is softbanned but allowed in japanese tournaments, but hardbanned here.)
95 was the shit Art!!! So much talk of the newer kof’s. Bah its all about 95!!
Outro
95 is the best game ever.
The canceling trick you’re refering has to do with 2 different bugs or exploits.
The first has to do with command throws not having a whiff animation. Since they don’t, canceling a normal attack into a command throw when it’s out of its grab range results in the attack canceling into nothing, causing the character to instantly revert back to a standing state. Characters like Ryo, Yuri, Hiedern, Takuma, Clark, and Ralph can take advantage of it in big ways for infinites or set ups.
The other is what some players seem to call the “transformation” bug. I don’t really know the specifics as to why it works, but you can give any special attack of a specific strength the properties of the same special attack of the opposite strength. In other words, you can give a LP fireball the proprerties of the HP version of the same fireball. In the case of the fireball, if you input QCF + LP, then quickly input QCF + HP before the LP fireball comes out, the projectile will travel at a HP fireball’s speed. Because of this bug, it’s possible to give many different special attacks properties they aren’t supposed to have, which results in infiinites like Kyo’s rising kick loop (Performed by tranforming the second hit of QCF + LK into the HK version, allowing you to repeat it indeffinately).
In Joe’s case, there seems to be some sort of horrible combination of both bugs that allows him to do some really wierd stuff with his TNT Punch ender (Punch rapidly, QCF + LP or HP). The game seems to think Joe can do the QCF + P ender without having done the TNT punch at the begining. Of course, the punch never animates though if you don’t do the TNT punch first. This allows him to cancel attacks into nothingness by simply doing a normal canceled into QCF + P. Additonally, Joe can cancel the actual animating TNT Punch ender into nothing by transforming the HP version into the LP ending as it hits (Punch rapidly, QCF + HP, then QCF + LP as the rush punch hits). Since you’re inputing the LP TNT ender command outside of the rapid punch, the attack doesn’t animate, and the rush punch is canceled into nothing. This results in an infinite I see a lot of players doing off of a far standing HK (Far HK canceled into a HP TNT punch, which whiffs, immediately canceled into the HP TNT ender, which is then tranformed into the LP TNT ender as it hits, then they link another standing HK and repeat).
So yeah, best game ever.
Kyo’s QCF X 2 + K super has a taunt extension at the end of it (press HP as the super finishes). If Kyo successfully does the taunt at the end without being hit, he goes into a sort of custom combo mode that allows him to cancel his special attacks into other special attacks. He whiffs the super at the begining simply to go into this mode.
CvS2 Combo & Strat video "Memories of 2005"
homepage: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105790
(not really but i don’t think the guy has a website … anyway just follow the directions in the first post)
commentary:
Pretty cool video by laugh showcasing some CvS2 stuff that caught his attention during 2005. It’s actually an awesome idea for a video and someone could get away with making one every year for every game. Check out how late the Balrog in the small clip at 0:48 cancels c.HP into full screen AHVB. His fist is way the hell up there. I think the best ones from that set are the Bison one at 0:57 and the Vice one after it. Whiffed Tiger Uppercut is an awesome meaty setup (1:37). Doing that in a real match would earn anyone hella fans.
OMG yes! that meaty combo after a whiffed tiger upper cut so sick. Jesus.
Hey Kamui thanks for explaining it. I feel like a casual fan who plays a SF game (like CvS2) and has never heard of RC, etc. Thanks. Haha, I’ll play this game with more casuals now.
Harvest 2 CvS2 Combo Video (released by Sai-Rec like 2-3 years ago)
homepage: http://mem.gozaru.jp (Mr.Mem’s homepage - pretty barren these days)
host homepage: http://www.orochinagi.com
movie page: http://kingoffighters.planets.gamespy.com/video/capcom.shtml
commentary:
I’m still not sure if anyone finds this classic combo video commentary stuff useful, but i’ve got a little time to kill right now so i’m just gonna keep going. This was the second for-sale CvS2 video that Sai-Rec/Type-XYZ released. Awesome music and editing in the intro, but unlike the first Harvest video, all of the intro combos appear in the main vid so we’ll get to them later. Overall this video is a big improvement over the first one but there’s still way too obessing over squeezing a couple of extra hits into repetitive mashing CCs. Some people are into watching the combo counter go up really high but it takes more than just numbers to impress me.
Ken segment: The fourth hit of this combo is Ken’s MP Dragon Punch. The way a lot of moves like Sagat’s DP and Terry’s Rising Tackle juggle in this game is by creating a temporary free juggle state inbetween hits. It’s kinda like how Terry’s Buster Wolf lets you juggle anything after the last hit, except with Ken’s DP you only get a short period of time after the first hit to connect with something else. Rolento’s knives interrupt Ken’s MP DP and he’s able to follow up with his MK fancykick. The Reversal isn’t technically necessary but like i said, the juggle window is pretty small so you can’t take your time with it. By the way, if you want a way to test which moves operate using straightforward juggle potentials and which ones use intermediate temporary juggle setups, here’s a decent method:
http://sonichurricane.com/notebook/cvs2juggletest01.html
Guile segment: The interesting part of this combo is s.LP, s.LP, s.LP xx FK super. It’s done by charging DB, then neutral LP, then DF, neutral LP, DB, neutral LP, U+K and it requires unrealistic precision.
Honda segment: Honda’s and Joe’s buttonmash special moves give you a lot of frame advantage on the fourth hit for some reason. Honda and Joe get to link a lot of stuff off that. The A-Honda combo is the more interesting of the two because they pull some illegal bullshit. See, you’re not supposed to be able to use CC OTG throws after doing a normal throw. But there’s this magic frame at the very end of wakeup animation where you can ignore this rule. Since you can’t initiate normal throws until the opponent is “throwable” and since normal throws have considerable startup, you can’t take advantage of that last frame using a normal throw. It will always whiff. But you can time any command throw (even slow ones) so that the grab frame coincides with the magic re-throwable frame, which is what Honda does with his 360 (which has more startup than his normal punch throw). Anyway he does a bunch of 360’s and then he gets to finish with another normal throw (since doing CC OTG normal throws against Rolento/Dan after command throws is perfectly legal). The craziest thing about all this is that Rolento/Dan can actually Reversal out of those last-frame bullshit throw combos and things get all sorts of glitchy, a lot like the Tech Throw Reversal bug. If anyone’s interested in seeing for themselves, speak up and i’ll kick down some scenarios to try out.
Blanka segment: Blanka’s electric ball super stops when he hits the corner so they time it perfectly to stop him from bouncing off. Same thing with the ground ball super. In fact using the ground ball for its juggle potential is the coolest thing about this combo.
Balrog combo: Sorry kids, there’s no fancy charge trick here - just programmable controllers doing the humanly impossible. Of course they do the c.MP as far away as possible to give themselves more time to recharge for the lvl2 super move down the line, but it’s still airtight timing. There is one clever thing in this combo though. Frame data for Balrog’s dashuppers says he gets +1 hit advantage. He needs at least +3 to combo into the s.LP which has 2-frame startup. This is where Honda’s unique hit stun animation comes in. If you look closely, you’ll see that Honda’s head ducks low when he gets hit mid by Balrog’s c.MP which in turn causes Balrog’s dashuppper to hit late. He actually gets the equivalent of a meaty hit out of that thing, giving him a frame advantage boost to link the follow-up jab. You can probably find these kinds of subtle tricks in Japanese combo vids dating back to TZW, but then they’ve had the advantage of awesome programmable controllers dating back that far too.
Morrigan segment: Hard to catch unless you’re paying close attention, but the knives serve four distinct purposes in this clip. First off, the fact that she jumps over Rolento after he starts that move causes their knockback to pull Morrigan towards him. It’s the same basic principle as a crossup pulling the opponent toward you. Second, you obviously get the interrupt which frees her from the painfully long recovery of that super. Third, check out how the combo counter is at 3 hits before she starts jabbing. That’s because the knives killed the third hit of Morrigan’s super FB, which happened to be the knockdown hit, which is why Rolento is still standing after all of that. Pretty sneaky huh? Fourth, the knives obviously fill out Morrigan’s S-Groove meter so she gets access to a lvl3 super. Anyway they use spacing to get her DP to hit late so that she has enough time to jump and do the air version of her doppleganger super (because the ground version won’t juggle). The second Morrigan combo uses Honda’s RC 360 as a meaty setup, which is just a stylish alternative to knocking him down or having him use S-Groove LP+LK dodge. Blah blah lvl1 FB super, air lvl3 doppleganger.
Maki segment: Rolento taunts to give Maki the counterhit which is necessary for the dizzy down the line. All of her chain combo shenanigans are explained in the commentary for the first Harvest video (page 3, post #64).
Akuma segment: As with the Morrigan combo, Rolento’s knives nullify the knockdown hit at the end of the super FB, keeping Rolento standing so that Akuma can mash some more buttons. Notice how the lvl1 super uppercut hits twice on the second DP. That’s because the first DP has a juggle potential of 2 while the second DP has a juggle potential of 4. They figured out that if you make the first one hit really late, the opponent will fall down enough to land on both hits of the second DP. I’m just mentioning this for those of you who wonder what “optimizing combos” really means. Most other combo videos just got two hits out of that lvl1 super uppercut because they didn’t bother testing it extensively enough or because by the time they finally captured the combo they were frustrated enough not to care.
Ok, that takes care of the Capcom segment. SNK half will come later. Any questions?
random tangent:
The bit about frustration being a factor in combo video production is one of the biggest advantages to programmable controllers. If you’re off a little, you just fix that little thing. But if you gotta do it by hand then you have to do everything all over again. Plus with programmable controllers, you get to do the combo piece by piece and it takes care of the assembly for you. You just gotta figure out how to do lvl3 super FB into LK hurricane kick into 3-hit lvl1 super uppercut and then you have the exact inputs for that written down that you can insert into any combo. But if i manage do that once by hand, i’m still no closer to doing it in a usable combo. Obviously having one of those things is no automatic substitute for creativity, but on the other hand i can point out at least a dozen things that i’d have done differently in my vids if i didn’t have to throw away hour after hour trying to do the same damn thing by hand. Of course people who create 20+ minute combo videos of this caliber deserve the utmost respect … but the more i think about the advantages of programmable controllers, the more aggrivating it gets having to compete with people who don’t have to waste a fraction of the kind of time i have to waste on redoing everything for one little annoying tidbit. There was one C-Ken combo i did that took me 3 weeks to make because i kept devising slight improvements and every new idea took HOURS just to test out. And i STILL wound up settling for something less than what i KNEW to be theoretically possible. Ugh, so fucking unfair to be compared against someone with that luxury …
That’s crazy. Reminds me of the discussion a while back about reversal dps when getting hit by 1 frame links being combo breakers… can you explain how this works?
Various SNK Games Combo Video
homepage: http://www.cyberfanatix.com
(look for “Strike Nation” under “Hot Videos” on the left - registration necessary but it’s free)
commentary:
Paying members got to see this a couple of weeks ago but it’s just been released for everyone with a free forum account. Pretty good editing in this video. I can’t tell if the KoF combos are any good so someone kick down some reviews. It’s got a handful of Capcom game combos but they are not impressive at all these days. If the SNK stuff in this video is on the same level, then i don’t know why these fools exaggerate and hype themselves up so much.
At 1:54 there’s an ST Ryu combo against Zangief where he does crossup j.HK into F+HP, c.HP xx HP DP (Gief dizzy), walk up F+HP, c.MP, c.MP xx super FB. There’s a Balrog combo at 5:08 and i think it’s SSF2 but it might be ST. Anyway he just mashes c.LP for a while then does rush punch and that’s all they show. At 9:52 he’s got an A3 Ryu combo where he jumps over Rolento doing lvl1 knives, then B+MP xx DP (knives interrupt), reversal VC, F+MK hopkick, j.HK, j.MP, j.MK crossup, j.MP, j.MK crossup, j.MP, and so on. That combo is flippable in at least two spots so if their SNK combos are escapable too, then this video is that much less impressive. I like their KoF2k3 combos though, probably because that game seems to lend itself to crazy juggle setups.
Can someone explain how they are doing 100% combos in LB2? I thought there was a hard-coded damage limit that prevented anything from going over 70% in one combo.
thanks for the info on the harvest vids man. I find them extremely helpful, mostly because I really like understanding everything about the games I play, which is one of the reasons I have problem with KOF, all the people I know who are good, or claim to be good at the game can’t give me indepth technical stuff about it.
As for the LB2 thing, I never heard of that, hard coded thing. But I don’t really play it. I have seen a bunch of combo videos and such that have 100% though.
Man, i didn’t enjoy that debate at all. Nobody had any concrete info but nobody wanted to back down even though nobody was getting anywhere. When “trying to figure out how games work” becomes “defending your rep” … things get ugly. Anyway i don’t think reversal DP’s are combo breakers in most instances in most SF games but maybe there are a couple of very limited exceptions. I know most things work the way they are supposed to in the games i play, but i don’t think any of the people involved in the SFA2 end of that debate ever figured out how Valle CC’s work. The biggest problem was the definition of “Reversal” - it means doing a special move or super move on the first frame following hit stun, block stun, air reel, or whatever other kind of stun. Back then a lot of people were saying that reversals involved cutting recovery short by 1-3 frames, which of course translates into combo breakers … but that’s just not true because that’s just not how reversals work.
Anyway if you wanna try the CvS2 craziness, do this:
- Go to Training Mode and pick Rolento as your character and A-Zangief as the dummy
- Get Rolento in the corner
- Set Zangief’s meter to “Recover” (for convenience)
- Using the dummy record feature, activate CC with Gief and do F+HP throw, then do 360+HK for the running grab (if you did it right, it should register as a 2-hit combo)
- Set the dummy to playback
- Wait until Rolento is waking up and try different reversals as Gief’s 360+K starts to grab (using Rolento’s knife super is particularly freaky)
You’ll notice that if you let Zangief do his thing, it counts as a 2-hit combo but if you do a reversal, that combo message doesn’t show up. The throw doesn’t even do damage most of the time if you perform a reversal, but this tidbit may just be a training mode only thing because of the way lifebars refill in training mode.
The way that they used chun li in those tournaments had a pretty solid gameplay, maybe not as good as the B3 tournament fights but still a good level
that same thing happens over here and I believe that theres more countries in the same situation.
In the last 2 national fighting game tournaments that Ive been here I talked with most players at rhe tournament and their fav SF game is still A2 (we love it):lovin:
btw majestros: do you know where it is possible to get a copy of the B5 DVD? a frined of mine ordered the B5 DVD before srk toke the buy link off and he ended paying for it but never got it.
since this is a combo vid thread:
ryuuko released a combo vid about A3 at http://www.ryuuko.cl (I already download it but I didnt had time to watch it yet but I believe this one should have good A3 stuff inside)
AOFDB (Art Of Fighting DataBase = the great brazilian combo makers + video editors) released a MASSIVE kick ass combo vid about World Heroes Perfect: http://www.ultracombos.com.br/download_video.php?tipo=1 (its AMAZING)
NeoGeo Battle Collisium combo vid at: http://allgames.gamesh.com/kof/update/combo/mtv/2005/12/1223-nbc_basic_cmv.htm
This site as combos from several fighting games: http://dsgs.kofunion.net/note.html (great stuff)
That A3 video by ryuuko is incredibly boring. It’s 19 minutes 15 seconds and 90% of that is filler flippable combos. I mean, these people realize that flippable combos are the A3 equivalent of MvC2 combos against assists right? Back when the game was new and people were making the first wave of videos that was forgiven, but nowadays that shit is weak unless you do something really really unexpected with it (and these people never once deviate from the script).
There’s one V-Sodom combo at 8:04 which is kinda cool because he combos into 360+K scrape and then activates VC and does some OTG 360’s. At 8:58 A-Ryu does anti-air s.HP xx LP DP and then juggles his elbow super with the right spacing to get the crazy ShinSho animation, which i’ve never seen used in a juggle. That combo is flippable though. Then there’s one cool V-Mika combo at 12:31 where she does Alpha Counter into VC activate and does a couple of OTG throws. The rest of it was typical A3 combo video content rehashed. I don’t understand how someone can say “Hey let’s download a bunch of old A3 videos, pick our favorite combos, and make a 19 minute video copying other people’s shit! It’s gonna be tight!”
No clue, sorry. You should just send a message to one of the active SRK admins. I don’t even know if they still have B5 dvds in stock so you’ll have to ask them. I don’t have one so i can’t help you there either.
More NGBC Combo Clips
homepage: http://01uunz.com
(click on any of the bold blue text links right under each day’s date to be taken to each character’s page)
commentary:
Lots and lots of NGBC combo clips posted every day. I’ve never played the game so i’m not the person to ask about these. Looks like Geese got some crazy red version of the Raging Storm that can OTG people after his counter move. Or maybe that was just a unique super cancel. Heh, i like how the ender to Geese’s Deadly Rave has a new action pose. SNK knows what the kids want! Plus, Asura has a one-move infinite. How long did that take to find? Like two days?
that “infinite” is tech rollable, so really it’s no big deal. I think the best thing about those clips is the geese011 with the deadly rave comboed into the Double Assault, for unrecoverable over half life damage. Thats pretty sweet.
Oh and now I’ll contribute a bit to the thread.
http://howardarena.sakura.ne.jp/
Howard Arena has been updating pretty regularly and now their are alot of really great Garou Match Vids. Especially check out the first two batches for some really great play. I love the Dong Hwan in the second set, he beasts.
Thanks for the inputs, Im not a big fan of Alpha 3 and I liked overall the video (even if many combos cannot work in vs mode) the reason that I dont make many comments about A3 its because I dont play it or understand it.
I will ask again to srk staff about the B5 DVD or if they can send a copy to the same adress were my friend ordered it.
Another thing Majestros: did you had time to download and check that “Time Machine” combo vid made by AOFDB? they have stuff there that I never saw in my life and mostly because its hard to get good stuff in the web from older games like World Heroes Perfect, I think they made some crazy combos there with an amazing video edit, what you think about that production? I wonder if theres any player of World Heroes games that has some good knowldge about this game?
Thanks in advance.