Nothing noteworthy the last couple of days, so i’ve got this idea i wanna try out. I found a website that is hosting the old (huge) Sai-Rec videos so i wanna try and point out some the cool stuff for you guys. The SRK community is a diverse group and i think there are a lot of people who don’t play CvS2 enough to tell what’s really going on in the more advanced vids. Personally, i know i get lost watching some of the more advanced Marvel vids.
So over the next couple of days i’ll break down the first Harvest video and tell you which stuff you’re supposed to be impressed by. Expect the first bit in a couple of hours.
commentary:
The thing to remember about the first Harvest video (and the sequel too) is that they were super technical for their time, but the authors were waaaay too obsessed with making “perfect” combos. They were always going for the maximum possible damage and/or maximum number of hits. Those two restrictions are extremely limiting, because in a game like CvS2 the vast majority of the more creative combos require specialized/dedicated setups. IMO, most of the really amazing CvS2 combos out there are relatively short and you won’t find many of those in Harvest or Harvest 2. Instead you can expect setups designed to dizzy the opponent (meaning lots of Rolento knives) and Custom Combos that mash the hell out of the fastest light attack they can find for the character. Also keep in mind that they are using programmable controllers, so all of the stuff that’s good only for execution reasons isn’t as impressive as the stuff that’s good because it’s genuinely creative.
The basic idea behind those Rolento lvl1 knives combos is to interrupt someone’s fireball animation so that they recover faster and get further ahead of their own fireball. Then they use another set of lvl1 knives to squeeze in an extra hit for free. In Ryu’s case, he does j.HP (counterhit because Rolento is still recovering from super), then the red fireball hits, then Ryu does close s.HP, then the knives interrupt the s.HP, then Ryu runs forward and does s.LP, s.HP xx red fireball. If you took away all the fancy setups, the combo would be reduced to j.HP, s.LP, s.HP xx red fireball. So essentially two sets of Rolento knives are used to add a leading LP fireball and to throw in an extra s.HP somewhere in the middle. Between these extra hits, the counterhit bonus at the beginning, and Rolento’s low 60-point dizzy limit, this setup leads to lots of 100% damage combos with various characters. Unfortunately, this setup is really boring and repetitive when used exclusively for damage/dizzy purposes.
Intro segment: The only advanced thing about the G.Rugal combo is that lvl2 kick super cancel into teleport. Anytime you find a way to move from sweep range to close proximity in the middle of a combo, you gain the opportunity to do a bunch of extra hits. The S.Akuma combo is pretty generic except for the ultra-precise way they maximize the frame advantage on his jabs. A lot of times they are doing s.LP and then jumping and linking j.MP to continue the air fireball infinite. Even when they just do s.LP over and over, they are taking small steps inbetween each jab to regain more ground.
Sakura segment: In CvS1, the last hit of Sakura’s HP uppercut creates a short-term free juggle state. They use that to juggle with s.LP and then juggle with her divekick (which has built-in juggle potential) and then juggle with lvl3 super fireball which gains juggle potential as it dissipates. Pretty decent combo for a game with such restricted juggle options.
Morrigan segment: Morrigan’s ground Darkness Illusion has no juggle potential but her air Darkness Illusion has a starting juggle potential of one. After spacing that LP uppercut so that it hits really late, they actually manage to pull off the air version of her super. Pretty cool combo when it was first discovered, but it pales in comparison with the CvS1 SNK-Groove Morrigan combo that follows it. After that drill super, she does close s.HP and then chain cancels into HK but kara-cancels that HK into HP+HK meter charge for a split-second. Zangief is still in hit stun when she recovers from that fancy bullshit so she does far s.HP and cancels into lvl3 Darkness Illusion (which only goes quarter screen distance in CvS1). The super whiffs and Zangief is still in hit stun when she recovers so she continues with s.LP -> s.HK -> D+HK xx lvl1 uppercut super and then does another lvl1 uppercut super for some extra juggle hits. Remember that CvS1 only had four buttons, so s.HK -> D+HK represents a standard MK -> HK chain combo. But you should definately be impressed by that chain cancel into kara HP+HK charge fake and by the whole whiff Darkness Illusion thing. Easily one the best combos in the whole video!
Maki segment: Three cool things happen with Maki. First, her lvl2 beatdown super is canceled after the 5th hit into whiff QCF+K run, allowing her to link more stuff. As with the G.Rugal combo, anytime you find a way to go from a super move to a normal move, you’re doing something advanced. Second, they follow her s.LP -> s.MP chain (which gives frame advantage) by linking c.LP xx KKK spinkick. Since you can’t cancel that chain, linking the c.LP is a clever way to combo into specials/supers. Third, they whiff Maki’s D+HP grab attempt at the end of her s.LP -> s.MP -> s.HP -> D+HP chain to recover in time to link her standard far s.HP against Zangief. Again, that chain combo can’t be canceled so finding a way to break it allows them to combo into her super.
Kyosuke segment: I’m not gonna bother explaining any of this guy’s bullshit. He’s a very customized character with a lot of exclusive rules that apply only to him. Since he’s bottom tier, you don’t really need to know what’s going on with him unless you plan on making a Kyosuke combo video or something. The one cool thing you should notice is that in the C-Kyosuke combo, he uses spacing to make the second hit of his HP fireball connect way late, which allows him to recover in time to link s.HP xx lvl2 fireball super afterwards.
Yun segment: For whatever random reason, canceling the palm attack at the end of Yun’s s.MP -> s.HP -> B+HP chain always creates a free juggle state. That’s the only reason that the lvl2 Yang super connects on the way down.
Akuma segment: On two occasions Akuma cancels lvl2 super into some whiff special move and then juggles with a normal move. Looks stylish. The first time it’s QCB+LP roll into s.HK xx LK Hurricane Kick and the second time it’s teleport toward the corner into vertical j.HK xx Hurricane Kick.
That’s it for the Capcom characters. I’ll do the SNK characters later.
How do they do that C-Groove Ryu combo? Jump in then crouching strong into a lv 2 Hurricane super, then a croching short in to a super fireball. It is impossible. Level 2 hurricane in to a lv 1 fireball is no problem, but the jab kick never can connect.
That combo doesn’t appear in the first Harvest vid. Basically C-Ryu just cancels lvl2 Hurricane Kick super into whiff air Hurricane Kick and then does c.LK xx whatever once he lands. I’ve never had a reason to try it but the timing looks tight.
commentary:
First off, you gotta read the english page because i don’t know who this guy is but he seems pretty cool. I like how he basically says “don’t bother searching your vids for my name cuz i’m not famous.” Makes me laugh. Then there’s the random 3S lyrics if you’re into that. I remember someone making a thread asking for them.
On the English page there are two random 3S clips - one is just 6 tackles with Urien and the other one is Yang doing his teleport thing against cornered Remy and when Remy tries to throw a Sonic Boom it goes the other way even though Yang didn’t make it into the corner. I bet you can use that for all sorts of crazy backwards-hitting combo setups. Also there are a bunch of video clips from old NES games if you scroll down. He’s even got Street Fighter 2010. I guess in the Japanese version the main character was named Kevin. Weird.
Also on the English page are three MvC2 match videos with a lot of Magneto stuff. I don’t know, you guys might find something interesting in there. Their execution is pretty good so maybe they came up with some crazy mixups.
Then there’s the two movie pages each with one video link. The 3S combo video is an older video that uses Urien’s Aegis to set up all sorts of crazy super fireball combos. Most of it is pretty self-explanatory though. The weirdest thing for me is the first combo where Remy’s reflected Sonic Boom nullifies the knockdown of Urien’s knee dive because i thought 3S didn’t have that whole property of simultaneous hits. I mean i’ve never seen Urien do Aegis on someone in the corner and then do c.HP or c.HK and have the Aegis cancel out the knockdown. Maybe it only works with certain kinds of stun, cuz that knee dive causes sort of a special stagger knockdown. It’s also pretty convenient how Aegis cancels out the first hit of those multi-hit super fireballs because in 3S the knockdown hit on those is usually the first hit (unlike every other game where the last hit knocks down).
commentary:
Damn this video is good! It’s like 10 minutes long and it includes just about all of his old CFJ combos since the beginning. The editing is absolutely awesome too. Almost every combo is good so i’m just going to point out the stuff i thought was crazy.
SF2 segment: Using Bison’s stomp to hit Anakaris’ feet at 0:43 is really cool and might even work in other games using Dhalsim’s j.LP or something. Gotta remember to try that out sometime. Chun Li’s EX Fireball nullifies the first hit of Ryu’s super fireball at 1:12 which allows it to juggle after the sweep. There are a lot of combos in CvS2 that center around that same principle, but the slow speed of her fireball gives Ryu a lot of time to push buttons before he has to do the super.
DS segment: Pyron combos two of those crazy column flame things in a row at 2:15 which is cool because it shows us that the pillar thing has juggle potential (not so easy to test something like that). At 2:27 the Aegis interrupts Felicia’s OTG and she does Reversal ground ball, which inherits the OTG property of the move before it and stands Urien up again. Kyo can do stuff like that in CvS2 with the OTG punch on his rekka ken.
Warzard segment: Chun Li parries all the hits of Kenji’s pillar except the last one at 3:47 and then trades with Kenji’s double slash using a jab or something, which lets Kenji show that the double slash thing has juggle potential (again, not so easy to test). At 4:13, kysg demonstrates that Leo sucks at combos.
SFA segment: Right at the beginning of this segment, Rose reflects Urien’s EX fireball which hits simultaneously with her scarf and nullifies the knockdown. The reflect move still creates a temporary juggle state which allows her to juggle another reflect move after her sweep. Pretty advanced. The Karin combo immediately after it at 4:49 uses the juggle setup off her doublekick special to cancel into and juggle with that air spinny move outside of CC, causing dizzy. The same principle is used with Rose’s fireball reflect at 5:20, followed by a drill juggle after CC ends.
No-Stun Death segment: Check out Kenji’s special KO animation at 8:29 - i guess he gets that if he kills with his lunging super.
Credits segment: At 8:58 Guile does Sonic Boom, s.LP, s.HP xx FK super and it’s fucking brilliant how he sets it up. Basically what he does is charge back, push s.MP (hold to avoid negative edge) and then joystick forward on the next frame, and then hit down/back on the next frame and push punch to do the Sonic Boom as soon as Alex parries it. Guile is charging DB the whole time both characters are stuck in parry animation, which gives him a lot of time to charge before the s.MP even gets canceled into Sonic Boom. By the time the Sonic Boom stun is about to end, he’s already charged for the FK super and pushes s.LP while the stick is in neutral, then hits down/forward, then down/back, then neutral for s.HP and then up+kick for the FK super. In fact you can see Guile begin to duck for a split-second inbetween the Sonic Boom and the s.LP while Alex is still in hit stun. kysg is cheap as fuck!
He says that he doesn’t use a program pad for the 6 tackles. I haven’t seen the vid, but if he’s doing 4 or more tackles off a crouching fierce or something similar, that is practically impossible.
Can anyone fill me in on what exactly happens or kick down a link or something? I’m interested becuse he mention that he used a “trick” on the page.
[EDIT] Ok, nevermind, it was firefox. I tried it in IE and got them no sweat.
Ahh. I see he used late late first tackle vs Q of all people. Definitely gonna help it along. Still, this looks like a brutal combo. I’ll have to give it a go next time I play.
Thanks again for the links, and I can’t wait to watch KYSG CFJ!!
Um, what makes Q special as a combo dummy? People mention him all the time as being an exception. I don’t really play 3S so i never bothered asking before.
Good lord! This thread brings back memories of going through combo vids frame by frame trying to figure them out. I remember the first time I saw Cable’s Harpoon superjump canceled into AHVB, the first of many yet to come infinites on Sentinel, and a couple other broke things all in one video. I think I still have them on some CD somewhere. I remember dl’ing mad helper assist videos cause I was addicted to helper combos. Good stuff!! :tup
I’m glad you guys are enjoying this thread. Feel free to pitch in if you want. Um, what else can i say? They aren’t my vids so it’s not like i can take credit. I dunno, i’m never quite sure how to deal with praise. Outright ignoring people’s comments seems kind of rude so i try to say something even though i have nothing to say and wind up not making sense. That’s pretty much the reason this paragraph isn’t going anywhere.
A lot of it is just inhuman execution using that Hori Command Stick he mentions at the end of the video. For example that Guile combo at 0:37 uses perfect timing to incorporate jabs into a way-stretched-out super command motion. He does DB+LP, neutral LP, DF, DB+LP, neutral LP, U+K. There’s an old Sai-Rec CvS2 combo where they do s.LP, s.LP, s.LP xx FK super by doing DB, neutral LP, DF, neutral LP, DB, neutral LP, U+K. Same principle.
Urien does s.LP -> s.MP xx LP headbutt at 2:47 but it’s probably just a matter of (programmable) execution. There’s no charge partitioning in CFJ and that’s the bullshit part of that particular combo. That bit where the reflected Sonic Boom collides at the same time as the headbutt and Guile doesn’t fall down is exactly what i was talking about a couple of posts up.
It’s pretty funny to watch every hit of Chun Li’s puffball super connect against Hauzer from like half screen away. Hauzer is so damn fat.
commentary:
Tantin noticed (and told me) that my name gets mentioned in the credits of the kysg CFJ video. You can barely make it out but i think kysg was actually listing the “Fun with CFE” video as a reference alongside the CFJ Master’s Disk DVD. James Chen, Kamui and i worked together on that video and i don’t think there’s any notes on it anywhere so i figured i’d provide some.
It’s been a year so it’s a little outdated, especially compared to a kysg video, but we had fun making it and i hope you have fun watching it (those of you who haven’t seen it). All three of us came up with the combo concepts in roughly equal shares, but James Chen did all of the performing/capturing as well as all of the editing. I’m not going to list who came up with which combo, except i am gonna say that i found the Chun Li vs Hauzer infinite because it’s the first infinite i’ve ever discovered.
Intro segment: At 0:15, Alex’s HP Flash Chop is interrupted by Urien’s Aegis and Alex performs a normal throw on the turned-around Urien. The SF3 series only allows this sort of thing with command throws, but CFJ is ghetto and doesn’t care what kind of throw you use after the Flash Chop. The only reason you need Aegis is because the normal throw doesn’t have enough range to connect under normal circumstances. The Rose combo at 0:24 uses the difference in arc ranges between Hauzer’s LP and HP fireballs to reflect them both at him without one of them nullifying the other.
Combos before Yun death combo: The reason Urien even bothers doing the LP fireball buildup is so that when he does the fireball super, it counts as a special move cancel and resets the juggle count. Otherwise that super fireball would only juggle three times instead of six. The Aegis Reflector connects after the LP fireball is initiated, making the LP fireball cancelable. In CFJ, the SF3 special move cancel system follows the CvS2EO P-Groove special move cancel rules. At 2:07, Chun Li does close s.MK but holds down the button to cancel into the follow-up, except she kara-cancels the follow-up into lightning legs and cancels that into super. That kara-cancel is used as part of an extended Chun Li combo at the end of the kysg vid. Karin juggles after her command throw at 2:28 while in CC mode using her doublekick special, which is cool because it looks like Guy has already hit the ground. She only does one j.HK in the second jump because that’s the only way to connect the super. The Anakaris combo at 2:52 requires two hella difficult links - one to go from c.LK to s.LP and the other one to go from s.LK to s.LP to make the s.LP cancelable (because chained Darkstalkers normals are not cancelable in CFJ for game balance reasons). Even though Ingrid’s counter move throws Guy through her super fireball at 3:10, the juggle count is at zero when Guy falls down, suggesting that a juggle count reset occurrs while he’s off screen.
Combos after Yun death combo: Kenji’s double dash attack combo at 4:22 looks way too cool, and that was one of the last combos we made so i’m glad someone thought of it before the video was done. Getting all three OTG knives to connect requires some pretty precise spacing. Dizzying Karin at 4:40 requires a couple of hits before Guy’s flying kick, but we only do it to show that CC air throws can grab even dizzy opponents. The first air throw would grab anyone but everything after it only works on Karin. CC air throws grab dizzy opponents in CvS2 as well. At 4:49 Sakura jumps straight up and activates CC, then empty cancels her divekick into her air hurricane kick, which is really crazy because if she’s facing the other way she will fly back instead of forward. I remember James trying to encourage people to try it out on their own, but i don’t think anyone bothered. A lot of cool stuff happens in the Urien combo at 5:16, including Urien using MP+MK overhead to hop over a low knife without losing charge and using a reflected knife to fill the hit stun gap between the shoulder tackle and the Aegis, which normally doesn’t come out fast enough to combo. Anakaris has this weird interval after a knockdown just as he’s about to hit the floor where he can be grabbed by a normal throw, which is what Guy does at 5:37 to continue the combo after the hurricane kick.
Randomness before Yun death combo: Hauzer is jumping around at 1:16 for no reason because his jump attack animation looks retarded for no reason. It is not our fault. Zangief uses his antiair super at 1:22 to get through Aegis but as he’s descending, Urien’s body pushes him out towards the Aegis and that knocks him up into the corner above Urien again. He starts falling again and the same thing happens until the Aegis is gone. Parrying projectiles freezes them in place for a long long time, so at 1:28 Alex backdashes inbetween parrying Demitri’s super fireball hits. Hauzer is so damn fat that no matter how Chun Li’s stomps bounce off him at 1:52, she’s always in range for more. Furthermore, Hauzer is so damn fat that when he’s standing next to a character, his head sticks through the character out to the other side, making Chun Li’s reverse lightning legs infinite at 2:34 possible.
Randomness after Yun death combo: The setup for turning Anakaris into that block thingy at 3:34 involves using Aegis to reflect his EX air ghosts back at him, and strangely enough the grab portion of Urien’s super tackle instantly converts him right back. In the next clip at 3:37, Hydron interrupts Anakaris’ elemental super and gets stuck in that animation, so Anakaris whiffs some random stuff and then does another elemental super. Rose’s punch alpha counter has some weird behavior, freezing Kenji in the air at 4:19 and giving her plenty of time to grab him with her DP. The endless Ultimate Guard thing at 4:55 works against a bunch of different moves, including Bison’s Mega Psycho Crusher, but it looks stupider with Hydron’s tail wagging back and forth so we went with that.
Three more little tidbits I would like to mention…
At 4:04, Guy Juggles after the Elbow Smash move. That Juggle is allowed only because of CFJ’s weird Juggle System which indicates that, after certain moves, the enemy can be Juggled by anything for a pre-determined amount of time, which I think is the most ghetto Juggle System ever made. Guy’s Offensive Crouch + HK follow-up is one such move, that creates a free Juggle period for Guy for a ridiculously long amount of time, given what they were hoping for, IMO.
That same free Juggle system can be seen in the Urien Combo at 4:38. The first hit of Urien’s Super would not normally Juggle, but Urien’s Crouch Fierce gives Urien a Free Juggle Period as well. So Urien knocks Alex into the Reflector, but even after that, the Free Juggle Period is still on, so the first hit of the Super gets to connect. The rest of the Juggles are legit, but normally the first hit misses. That same benefit can be seen at 5:25, where Urien squeezes in one last Jump Fierce after the Headbutt, right before the Free Juggle Period ends.
As for the Sakura Combo at 4:50, I dare people to try that Combo in the LEFT corner instead of the right corner. You might be shocked at what happens.
