The descriptions aren’t accurate yet, but if you have any questions shoot me a PM. Pictures also look kinda wonky because it was hard to get the engravings to show up in photo, but hopefully we’ll get some higher quality pictures up.
Agreed. It only throws you off when you’re first adjusting to it, which doesn’t take long at all. After that, you’re better off.
Haha, I’ve been at that point for quite a while. Once you start customizing, you get particular about things.
I would be careful with these, as the change in engage has to be carefully balanced with the change in throw to keep the engage proportions among the different directions in line. The nature of my mod takes care of this by simply change the distance from the pivot point, rather than messing with the actuator diameter and gate size.
Custom actuators can be made carefully to keep the proportions in balance. The only thing is there isn’t much clearance left between the actuator and the switches in a JLF from stock. My mod cuts engage nearly in half (about 6mm to 3.25mm). I don’t think you can take it this far just by changing actuator diameter, there’s not enough room in there.
Also, I definitely would not recommend shortening throw without shortening engage as well, which is what you get with only changing the gate. Your engage proportions will be skewed.
I’ve been playing pretty regularly with this mod for a year, and haven’t had a problem yet. You only need to take off a little material so that it doesn’t contact the gate; it’s still plenty secure. There’s no way it can be dislodged from rough play, as the only force it experiences comes from the spring, which is directed perpendicularly and only serves to better hold it in place.
First, it can easily be finished in a single night. Second, the important thing is the final product, not the process.
Read my comments above.
Throw and engage. Very important.
If you’ve really done honest comparisons, I can’t see how you’d arrive at this conclusion. Just from a gameplay standpoint, JLF’s feel a lot more precise to me. This makes sense, because you can see clearly from the materials and the accuracy of the machining and molding that Sanwa parts are made to much finer tolerances.
I’m not the only one who thinks so. From Kowal’s site:
“When it comes to quality and aesthetics, Sanwa is the undisputed leader. In every aspect, their products are top quality. You may not like Sanwa due to their specific properties,” (engage and throw) “but the rest of the joystick producers are at least a class behind in quality.”
http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/joySJLFTP8Y.htm
On slagcoin, the Sanwa JLF and JLW were the only joysticks to receive a Pivot Quality rating of “Very High,” Seimitsu’s received a “Medium” rating. He also commented that about Seimitsu’s that “Their parts cost less than Sanwa parts, and do have a lower quality in a few areas.”
http://slagcoin.com/joystick/attributes_brands.html
If want to respond to that please start a different thread. This definitely was not about supposed to be about Sanwa vs. Seimitsu. Please leave it alone here. This thread is just supposed about to be about this mod and feedback.
If you’re a JLF fan, this is a mod for you. If not, let’s take it elsewhere please.
Thing is about the custom gates is that the engage is already really low on the Seimitsu. Shortening them further will kill the deadzone, which is more important than the stock throw/engage ratio. The ratio is pretty good on the custom gate I use with a 5 mm throw and 4 mm engage, feels much better than 7.5 mm and 4 mm. It’s a different way to tweak if you don’t like the original ratio but like the engage, basically it’s to get rid of the throw as much as possible. My philosophy about throw is quite different than most, as I seek to eliminate as much as possible, rather than simply shorten it, at least on sticks with short engage. Of course, not everyone wants that, so I designed up some that shorten the throw rather than get rid of it. People have played on it and really liked it. I’ve tried a similar mod on the JLF and I didn’t like it in the slightest and neither did my friends, although we agreed it worked good on the LS-56 and LS-40. Different sticks tweak differently, and I think you have to have a different philosophy for each one. I suppose at some point, I may start doing tweaks on a JLF, but I’m not sure yet. It’s not my favorite stick by a long shot, but it’s a popular choice and I think it would still be interesting to see what can be done.
Increasing the diameter of the bell portion of the actuator still leaves plenty of space for the JLF. It has a 6 mm engage, if you had a 2 mm larger diameter then it becomes 5 mm engage, and so on. The only thing I’d be concerned about if I was making JLF actuators is at what point the bottom of the bell would start grinding against the washer, in which case you could then shorten the height of the bell for extra clearance and still be able to engage the switch, at the cost of some dead zone. There are tons of options at this point once you hit that step.
IMO, the JLF’s one quality drawback is the tabs that hold the gate in and the material of the gate being too brittle. The little part that can be angled 45 degrees for 4 way play breaks really, really easy. Otherwise, the pivot is top quality, and the Omron switches are nice. However, and I don’t want to derail your thread so this will be the only time I comment on it, is that the LS-40 easily matches the JLF in quality. Both sticks have excellent bodies and the plastic on both is sturdy. The pivots are both top quality, the shafts are excellent and the one thing I think the 40 does better is the gate. It’s a softer material, nylon, yet still sturdy (and not to mention chemically resistant to solvents like acetone) for the purpose and will not shatter like the more brittle gate of the JLF. Plus, it’s screw in, and you don’t have to worry about any tabs breaking when removing it. The LS-40 also has in my opinion a superior actuator, made of nylon that has low friction and high durability. It’s definitely sturdier than the JLF actuator, which is softer and I’ve seen some pretty worn ones in my friends sticks while my LS-40 actuator still looks the same as when I got it a few years ago. If the JLF had the properties of the LS-40 for engage and throw, and had a screw in gate, with a tougher actuator, then I’d think it’s a fabulous stick. Having spent some time with the LS-56, the pivot and the spring supporter are definitely of higher quality on the JLF. The pivot mainly because of the shape, not the actual materials it’s made of. The spring support on the LS-56 leaves a bit to be desired, it’s made of thin material and I worry that the flange won’t last long. In those respects, the JLF beats it. Anyway, that’s all I’ll comment on in this thread as far as the quality between the two, I feel at least giving some props to the JLF for some aspects of it is still on topic. From a quality standpoint, I feel both companies are offering excellent parts, and it really comes down to a few design choices rather than material ones that gives each set their pros and cons.
Anyway, back to the mod, I haven’t really enjoyed tweaking a JLF, but I do like reading about what new methods people come up with. I’m actually quite interested in a JLW, it looks to be a high quality stick and one day I’d like to see how it is, but at the moment I have my sights set on a few other sticks that I need to get some projects rolling out with before I start to tackle it. JLF gets plenty of love and I’d like to see other sticks get some, too. However, if the day arrives that I attempt to do some JLF tweaking, I’ll share the results here, as it definitely has some aspects to it that is worth looking into, like the quality of the pivot giving it the smooth operation it has.
If the ratio is bad at stock, then yeah, retaining the stock ratio isn’t so much of a concern, that’s a different situation. 5mm throw and 4mm engage sounds like it would result in very small diagonal zones though.
My mod takes engage down to about 3.25mm. I don’t know if there’s room in there to take it that far just with actuator diameter.
This is true. It’s my one of my only complaints about the JLF that can’t easily be fixed. Breaking this is only a danger while changing out the center part of the restrictor though (I prefer to keep the square anyhow, so no need to mess with it). In any case, it’s not possible to break this during gameplay, only while not being careful taking it apart. As for Seimitsu’s being superior in any aspects relevant to gameplay, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
I’ll definitely check it out, but if you make your own mods, please make your own thread for them. Seriously. You can PM me to direct me there.
This is why I stopped playing on modded sticks.
You don’t always get to compete on your own personal stick, so IMO it’s better to get used to how a stock stick feels so you don’t end up in a situation where you lose simply because the stick didn’t perform like you expected it to.
Don’t people usually bring their own to a competition? If you talking about an arcade cab, it may not have the stock stick that you like either.
Not everyone brings their stick to a tournament. Especially when the bigger ones have sticks provided on site by sponsors (for example, during SEAM2013, MadCatz provided sticks on site, I stopped bringing mine after day two). Even without sponsors, if you borrow a stick on site, it’ll most likely have a stock JLF on it. As for cabs, 80-90% of cabs here have JLFs, the remaining percentage is split between LS-32s, a few JLWs and bootleg china sticks (that aren’t put ont he marquee games like SF, Tekken or Marvel).
I agree with d3v partially. I think learning to play on the standard is good, but besides that I really love your ingenuity and exploration that you showed to make this mod. I’ve played on a Suzo Inductive and nothing will every top that IMO for SHMUPS, but I am giving you credit because this is very crafty. The only thing I am not sure about is the non machine made parts. Seems like there is room for error. Like it may vary from 1 creation to the next. It would be totally awesome if you could make this perfect every time. I would be willing to try one out.
Anyways, bottom line, good shit man.
Moon - In the interim, while we wait on “custom gates” the injustice fight stick square gate is slightly smaller than the stock jlf square gate, works great with things like spark ce (among other things like stock switches) (you must dremmel out the spot above the potentiometer)
I get what you’re saying d3v, but sounds like that was your choice not to bring your own stick, not the rule. If cabinets are being used, you’re right, no arguing that. It’s not too often that most people are at a competition though, let alone playing on a cab which is rarer still. I think I’ll keep modding because I enjoy it.
Sethian0, thanks for the compliments. If by non-machine made parts, you mean the modded actuators, then yeah, that is the critical part of the mod. If your final dimensions are a little off, it will still work, but your engage and throw will a tiny bit different each time. I keep measuring carefully as I go, and of the three I’ve done so far, I’ve kept the deviation extremely small, maybe a few thousandths, so the difference will be negligible.