The 2nd KOFXII Thread (debuting at AM Show in September)

The one problem with accepting that the first game is going to be substandard and that the next one will be better is the development budget.

Simply put- SNK is smaller then Capcom, and doesn’t have successful franchises outside of KOF, it’s dating sim games, and Metal Slug, whereas capcom has a lot of successful other franchises to where SF isn’t as vital to them. An unsuccessful KOF could really hurt SNK financially.

The other issue is that certain groups, tend to view any criticism of SNK as “not being a true fan”. Reality is, SNK has made a lot of crappy games, a few good games, and the occasionally great superawesome game. Just like Capcom.

I really do hope SNK looks carefully at their new systems, and balances them out. Right now it just smacks to me as “we gotta add something new in there so we don’t get accused of rehashing shit”. History has shown us that this is disasterous for fighters. It’s generally better to err on the side of caution and make a system crappy, then make it too good.

SF4 threw in Focus Attacks for the same reason, but I believe (Can’t say for certain- going on opinions of others here) that it’s a well-thought out mechanic that adds to the game.

re: Critical COunter System

I was the one said it was the closest to SFA2 CCs. Reasons:

  1. While it doesn’t push you forward automatically, you do get automatic dashing
  2. Seemingly little to no damage scaling

You also get free juggles, but that’s par for the course for most CC type systems.

re: bitching

While I’m sure there’s lot of general bitching about stuff that’s new for the sake of bitching about stuff that’s new, not all bitching is the same. There are some of us with gasp experience with previous systems, and there have been very bad systems with easily detectable traits. So when we see new systems that have traits in common with these older bad systems, it sets off red flags. That’s the case here with the Critical Counter System. It’s setting off red flags, since to me it has some bad properties of CCs and parries.

Does this mean it WILL be broken or that the game will suck because of it? Not at all. There’s still plenty of time to address things. But there’s nothing wrong in voicing concerns now. Cause right now, this seems like a bad idea and, like it or not, bad ideas do make it through to the final versions of games (e.g. GCFS). Don’t lump my concerns with generic baseless hate.

I wonder if additional character or two will make it into the final console version of the game?
I have to say gameplay wise, I’m probably more excited by KoF2k2UM but I would also be concerned from watching the matches as they are now, it’s not that it’s not KoF, since I don’t subscribe to every game having to be mere alterations of each other, but it doesn’t look that fun either.

a we got a super combo in this vid at :58 seconds in… leona combos an overhead to super and if you look on the left you can barely see the combo counter register the 2 hits…

[media=youtube]sMwLbe1nv-s[/media]

It didn’t combo. V-slasher did two hits, the slash through and then explosion. You can tell because early in the video when she did b,b, into the old slasher attack the combo counter counted up as the hits connected. For the part you are talking about it didn’t count up from the overhead.

okay my bad

I can’t believe people are complaining about people not liking every inch of KOFXII. Did they not notice that the same people are stilll going to play the game?

People act like it’s some great sin like global genocide not to like every detail of a game. I hate that Kyo is his old version, I hate that RObert doesn’t have his fwd+A and his unblockable, I hate that Clark and Goro are back, I hate that Raiden is in, WTF was SNK thinking changing Ash’s fireball DM to that crap?

Does that mean I won’t play the fuck outta this game? Hell no. I don’t like a lot of things about KOFXII. I don’t like a lot of things about XI/98/2k2 either. I still play those games and want to get better at them.

People saying shit like people are ungrateful. People are HYPED this game is coming out no matter what they don’t like. People need to stop acting like they never complain about anything in their life.

That being said Duo Lon looks cool and I might just start playing Joe.

Did i missed a Iori vid?

Actually, I think it did combo:
[media=youtube]lDXFBvUc1AM[/media] (3:37)

She does it here by itself, and it’s not listed as a two hit combo.

When you do combo it, I think it just waits until the move is finished to display the combo count. After all, in the other vid it was only a 2 hit combo, so it wouldn’t start displaying a hit count until the second hit is complete.

yeah the lone dragons right it did combo…

there’s a difference between pointing out something that is wrong, and bitching because something was implimented and now you have to think differently to win a match…you all know what I’m talkin’ about.

In this case, it’s an unfinished game a vast majority of us haven’t even been able to TOUCH yet…so I think the speculation is a waste of time…only way we’re gonna learn about the fighting is…well…TO FIGHT! Until we can properly do that, I think everyone should just calm down and stop being so kneejerk.

I’m just sayin’…

Let’s hope with console release we get online mode. That’ll be sweet.

Are there any good videos with Chin in them? I’ve only seen that one of him fighting Ash, that’s 16 seconds long, and that didn’t present much.

As a KoF fan since the beginning, stylisitcally, I’m happy with these new systems so far. After 98/MOTW, SNK games in general have really started to lose IMPACT on their blows. Clashes hint towards this old feeling, at least. It really helps get across the feeling that attacks have some weight and strength behind them again. I loved the way Shingo could land “Critical Hits!” in 98, it made me feel like he really was putting his all into each hit, regardless of lacking flames!

The CCs after Critical Counters remind me of Super Cancel mode in Neowave. I loved being able to basically “create your own super combos” in Neowave, It never seemed OVERPOWERED to me. It seemed like swift characters with lots of links could make combos as strong as limited link combos from slower characters, and if one chara excelled at SC, they where not as good under, say, Guard Break style, and vice versa.

This is what I hope ends up happening here, in XII. Some characters will get their breaks in CCH, this will be where they can land big damage, while others will be able to manipulate clashes to their advantage more often. This would cause you to fight each opponent differently; Some you would try to power through, because they have low clash priority, others you’d have to wait for and punish after they make errors, because they can turn the tide of the round, if you give them a strong opportunity.

I do hope CCH’s drain meter. Like in Neowave, the fact a Super Cancel combo that used all stocks was roughly the same damage as a MAX2 SDM that used all of it’s modes stocks, helped each “option” feel “balanced”, to me. I sacrifice all more stored meter, to do similar damage to what you do when you drain all your meter.

And still no one answered my Question. If the systems here in XII end up like refined versions of Battle Fantasia’s Gachi/Heat Up systems, is that a BAD thing? I loved the “3 moves and then you’re done!” feel of that juggle system (very SSFIITHDR like there), but I never understood where certain characters/moves could break that limitation (such as Coyori being able to weak kick/dash juggle a person for like 9 hits in such a situation). From the Exibition videos posted from the Famitsu event, XII already seems like it’s combos have a rhythm, and it all seemed reasonable, until Terry’s “Burn Knuckle Bounce Fest”, and Ryo’s “Thresher Punch insane-o-pain” juggles. These still all wouldn’t be bad with proper damage scaling, but I personally don’t think combos should ever take SO long that the person receiving the damage should feel like they could drop their controller and grab a sandwich. (Which is how I feel during the previously mentioned Coyori Loop)

You don’t want to be disconnected from the ability to DO something about your Characters Fate but for so long. Because when that happens, you’re no longer playing a fighting game, you’re just playing a “Who can land the SURE-KILL comboable hit first!?!” game, and that doesn’t make a fun fighter.

Yes, I easily see where these new systems could lead into that kind of frustration. But if SNK is smart enough to keep these things balanced, in not only damage, but also in speed of activation and completion, then I think they could increase the fun of the game in ways that call to the SNK fans of Old, and New.

Maybe they should hire Sirlin… I love the thought put into making characters like Honda and Cammy more fun to play VS fireball trap hijinks, or giving Guile’s different strength Flash kicks PURPOSE. He really helped give characters movesets a lot more meaning and purpose. SNK has always pursued this with the large variety of skills and variation they give their special moves, so hopefully, this knowledge expands into these new systems as well.

Oh, and Riot.EXE, yeah, I know Shermie’s dead (even though playing her in Neowave, NGBC, and 98, and 2k2 can make one forget), but it’s especially because of HDR… The new, easier to land throwing motions given to Gief and T.Hawk all just scream “Shermie!” to me, lol (with a side of Maxima), and it reaffirms to me why I always liked SNK’s grapplers a LOT more than Capcom. Goro has never done it for me, I dunno how Raiden will feel in XII yet, and Clark is ALMOST there… but I just don’t know if anyone in the roster can feel like Shermie/Mary yet!

It has been proven that only the dream macth games tend to be good

Buy THE MOTHATFUCKER game when it comes out so we can get KOF XIII Dream Match

Saying I won’t play the game because I don’t like this and that and this doesn’t look like 98 bullshit is fucking retarted.

I don’t like the CC idea either but I’m sure as hell I’m going to buy this game to support SNK

people forget the fact that 98 is 98 because of 96/97. This game as well is just a beta(put it in your own words) for Kof XIII

Hahahah it’s going to be a long time before we get a dream match game with all the new sprites theyare going to have to make.

How do you all feel about the seemingly slow DM execution rates. They look almost useless / non-comboable because of the speed they come out.

honestly, outside of CC combos, a lot of them are going to be useless

this is especially troubling for grapplers, as they’ll absolutely never be able to land theirs outside of combos, despite DMs for grapplers being inherently important for reversals/traps/etc.

Everything is a progression. You have to START somewhere. Better to start and fail than to never start at all. But if the new systems give this 2D fighter a different feel than the average Fighter Gameplay, even to the more casual market, then it’ll be worth it. SNK’s decisions help decide whether this new “Fighters Renaissance” last 1, 5, or 10 years.

Personally, I like them, if the system supports them (which the “Super flash-enabled-super after a critical counter” hints that they do). When I first saw supers in Super Turbo and KoFs and such, I initially thought of them as “The ultimate way to take advantage of an opening”, and not “The flashy way to end a combo”, as they have become in fighters now.

Lets try thinking of it this way: WHY are supers “Safe ways of delivering damage” in fighting games? Why do they make us invincible and let us slip THROUGH defenses? Why do you MINIMIZE risk in order to GAIN such a HUGE reward? When has an act of DESPERATION, in reality, ever been safer than the actions of a sound, calm (life bar filled) mind?

True, this is the difference between reality, and gaming. Gaming demands priorities, rules, and learnable, consistent strategies. However, if SNK shifts the rules well, though… then this could be the freshest 2d Fighter since the 90s. O well, we’ll see!

Um dude, you do know that KOF XIII will be the real conclusion of the ash saga, right? :confused:

Cause if you’re waiting for an actual dreammatch game, you’re gonna have to wait for KOF XIV.

I think that’s the moral of the story. Any changes they make for KOFXII, no matter how drastic, can be perfectly fine…as long as the game engine is designed to support them.

This isn’t SNK’s first fighting game, after all.

Should these even be called DMs anymore? The name “desperation move” seems to be an artifact of the old school Fatal Fury 2 days, when supers could only be done with low health. Maybe it’s time for a new name, SNK?

Unlike Capcom (although Capcom has been getting better recently), SNK is usually pretty good to its grapplers. I have faith that they’ll give us some tools. This isn’t like 95 where SNK forgot to give Ralf and Clark a basic anti-air…

We’ll we’ve already seen that Leona’s is comboable. I’m sure others will be, too. Of course, then there are those that don’t need to be comboable like Power Geysers and Rush Supers.