GGs for sure. No worries man! Im still on if anyone else wants to throwdown some.
We actually had a kinda good connection atleast on my end it felt that way. I only missed inputs on rekkas a couple of times.
GGs to Arson and Chris
So Bison should have an easy to land ultra every match? Bison who has basically the safest pressure in the game, one of the best sets of normals in the game (if not THE best), the most and best escape options in the game… do you know how stupid it would be if he had an FADC ultra type thing. I guess to balance things out you would give Ryu a teleport, make his EX tatsu invincible on the way up and fly to the other side of the screen? Why not just let Zangief do green hand FADC ultra? That would be awesome too, right! That doesn’t mean the game is perfect. I think everyone pretty much agrees that Viper is pretty dumb, but capcom have obviously decided they want her like that for whatever reason. I mean, who has some of the most useless ultras in the game? Fei Long, Bison, Honda… those are the first 3 that came to mind. What do they have in common? Good normals, safe pressure/chip (rekkas, scissors, jabxhands), good reversals (flame kick/chicken wing, EX headbutt, BISON). Pretty common thread here.
And do you not understand the concept of having the threat of an ultra that takes away a huge part of an opponent’s game? Hakan’s U2 means you can’t jump at him. Period (not to mention you can use it to OS a ton of shit when people are waking up) There is no trick to that. Chun U1 means you cannot throw a fireball at her when she has charge. Period. There is no trick to that. Of course, if that doesn’t suit you, pick their other ultras which basically have the exact opposite uses…
And for the no damage thing, I meant that you rarely get hit with straight raw ultras with the exception of grab ultras. Yeah ok everyone get hits with a random ultra or a wakeup ultra every once in a while. It happens, but it doesn’t (shouldn’t) happen much. If they hit confirm into something and FADC ultra for an extra 150 damage or whatever at that point… so what? They used up both their ultra and half their meter to tack 150/200 damage onto the end of a combo. Bison can easily get that with two of his amazing 6 frame standing roundhouses.
OOHHHHH look at you slaws complaining about fighting games and there mechanics! LOL!
As much as I love some of you, yes homo, just play the games for what they are. A lot of you are supposedly playing KOF because its a “real” man’s game and has no comeback mechanic. Welp, I can’t wait to here the complaining once Abe hits one of you with a set-up into NeoMax with Clark. lol oh man eyes are going to roll and hearts are going to shatter. The game will then become “random” and some of you will come out of retirement and go back to playing Marvel.
Same story, different game. So stop getting your panties in a bunch. You all have had to deal with a comeback mechanic since Super turbo. They called them supers!
Besides, Jersey Shore is on and drama is already a-brewing! You all should be watching it!
P.S. Look at Eraser breaking stuff down! Slaw probably at the house sipping on a Nestle tea and grinning at the responses. LOL I see you Eraser.
The point of Ultras in Capcom’s eyes were to make the game easier and more exciting for “comebacks” this is from Capcom, not from something I made up, they purposely did this to say, “you have been beating on me whole match, now we’re even” type attitude…
Hakan U2 is not as good as U1 except in certain matchups (Viper being one) because the problem is you have to ask yourself…why is Hakan such a bad character? He doesn’t have viable wakeup. If you think EX Slide (meter), or EX grab, or dash back are viable I would love to see anyone in this state use him in a tournament because there are only two sort of Hakan players…
You don’t NEED to jump at Hakan anyway. He already has standing FP as anti air. With U2 all you have to do is walk up to him and grab when he is down basically or stay in front of him…U2 to me is one big waste…U1 you can’t just jump away from and having it as any option close or on wake up is extremely valuable. It is easy to catch people with it because Hakan you have to stay on top of anyway to win. Jumping shouldn’t even be an option at most characters anyway…you need some type of "damage’ and luckily U1 has that…
I don’t really have any other opinions on Ultras so I am kind of off topic but I definitely know a bit about Hakan’s matchups and how to play as/against him…
Look for example, if Bison does not have a life lead and it’s like 80-20 to the opponent he screwed if the person can block worth a damn and doesn’t jump. Bison is all gimmicks as are all the characters with the bestfundementalsgosh. Viper can keep doing specials and can’t punish them but if she hits you once she gets to do damn near 500 damage. It’s not even comparable and it’s bad design. At least Ryu can mix you up a few times and if the player decides to use the meter for FADC to ultra than can choose to do so. All I’m saying is some characters have a hell of a time using their ultras and it makes it a poorly designed mechanic.
Dream: Totally right on Hakan. I just think ultra damage should at least be the same all the way around. I really don’t get that.
Also, that quote from gdbell is great because I don’t know much about KOF XIII at all but there are without a doubt at least two comeback mechanics in that game with supers and drive cancels that lead to more than 50 % damage easy.
Wait so if I do a meaty short/forward against Hakan a wakeup command grab wouldn’t grab me? That’s news to me.
And I actually forget I have Ultra sometimes. Like I’ll do a standard punish into rh scissors then be like “shit I could’ve Ultra’d” right after…
The worst design about Bison is the knockdown scissor trap…I still can’t believe that is in the game but then again Bison used to be able to do scissors (Roundhouse) and have frame advantage against anyone without an uppercut reversal and grab them. I always thought that was funny but at the very least knockdown scissors takes off hardly anything anymore…they had to make sure some characters don’t have combos into Ultras (sans his Jump MP X 2) because they already were silly as it is…Bison is extremely viable and if he had a weakness it is only when he has no meter (same with Rufus) that is why I always thought of those two characters as even…one has crazy BS with one short kick to combos and the other has 3 frame short kick and Roundhouse of death but without meter they aren’t dangerous.
Kinetik: He needs oil and even then you have to remember, he is NOT Zangief or T Hawk…the priority is not there on those moves…stand RH him or dash grab him on wakeup. If he dashes away slide. Once you get in those traps you can do crouch short x 2, crouch MK to space and then scissor traps. He only has two things against scissor pressure, Stand FP (trades) and Back + HK…
Yeah I mean I hear you chit. I guess ultimately I just don’t think ultras are that big of a deal. The points you were making kind of go back to the balance discussion we had eons ago. Yeah I mean, there are always going to be characters with “better” ultras, more ways to land them, etc, but that is to be expected if we want any kind of variety in character choice in a fighting game. And like NeoBlood said, characters that don’t TYPICALLY are balanced in other ways. I am not saying it’s always an even tradeoff, but it’s there.
GGs to Jason and Arson in AE. Gonna hop on KoF for a bit if anyone is down. Deemus you still on?
Edit - Eraser nailed it. Jason you will have to help me interpret Dreamspeak. I still do’nt have a clear understanding of the “knockdown scissor trap” after reading your post lol.
Ya I was going to say…Ralf and Clark will do some madness but even then Majin and Raekwon do the Clark stuff anyway…
I am thinking finals for KOF will be Raekwon vs Shin unless Majin comes out of hiding for Saturday for the bonus pot…
You should work on Wall Street with those types of investments. lol
TN better take ALL games this Saturday. Time for us to show our legitimacy.
Hey Jason,
Check the PM
Chris, is Big Patty V gonna be there? Haven’t seen him around on the boards recently.
Leave him to me. I will collect Brother Farr.
Jan - man that K.i.T results list takes me back. We have all grown and completely transformed as players since then.
Yeah I def agree. It just sucks that some characters can do an ultra to comeback while others have to hope the opponent does something really unnecessary. On the other hand, it was great to watch Bobby’s reactions when he found out Juri could finally FADC pinwhell into U2. Before that, she had no chance to comeback really unless you got pressing stuff while she’s doing fireball frame traps or something else really specific. She needed whereas Bison doesn’t need it, but I just think it’s ultras are silly in general the way they are currently implemented.
I agree no doubt. Just love getting hitting with stuff like whatever that one kick Rufus has that juggles into ultra 1. Again, these are design concerns but it hurts my feelings that some characters have to work so freaking hard over a round to comeback without ultra when it takes some characters one button into ultra for the same damage. I play SF4, it’s a good game but I will never agree with damage output on ultras or how easy it can be for some characters to turn the tide so quickly.
Majin mentioned the bonus pot last night with a smirk so I’m guessing he’s intends on going
GGs to Chris and Jason. I was just playing as random as I could and dropping shit because I’m ass. All sorts of weird shit was happening, but oh well. Just gotta tighten up my shit with Seth so I’m not getting shortcuts as much.
RE: Comeback mechanics. I never understood the mentality of “well we both have access to this stupid mechanic so…” Just because both people have access to a bad mechanic doesn’t make it any less stupid. I agree that in either case you, the player, got hit by something when it happens whether its Marvel or SF but one of my biggest issues with Marvel is that its one mistake and round over basically thanks to XFC and/or high damage. Granted I stopped playing Marvel because of that and other reasons.
RE: Ultras in SF4. Of any of the comeback mechanics in games these days this is the best implemented though its still not great. Granted I think how awesome the look and how they work has a lot to do with all the new people playing Street Fighter and that in of itself is a good thing. However, people are right that this mechanic is also pretty silly. So for loosing a person gets access to a single move or combo depending on the char that does 400-600 damage in one hit and most of them set up the char to pressure well on wake up. Several of the characters who have these awesome ultras already have a ton of other tools. Yes Bison, Honda, Guile, Rose have meh ultras (though Rose’s is arguably good) because they have great pokes and what not. However; that doesn’t explain Viper, Rufus, AE Yun, Akuma or any of the chars with already good/great tools and access to high combo damage because they happened to take damage earlier in a round. It also doesnt explain the chars with crap ultras and lacking other tools (Hakan, Gen, Juri, Blanka ect) So even though “everyone has access to this” its by no means even or even well thought out for some of the cast. I am all for char diversity in the game but they could make better balancing decisions without sacrificing the unique play styles. Also has been mentioned before low life doesnt compensate for access to having access to all/best tools in the game (AK, Seth, AE Yun)
All this being said Bishop is 100% right in that we focus too much on negatives a lot of the time. Marvel, while its not my thing, is damn pretty and when you do play it and you do well you feel cool cause the combos look pretty as hell. Watching high level matches can be neat because in some cases you can see the mind games going on especially in Ultimate. SF4 is a really fun and great game overall and I love watching high level matches.
GDBell: Both Abe and Majin have “death” combos on a char with Clark after landing one grab and a few ancillary hits. I gave up games to both of them yesterday for this very reason. However, with the amount of bar they had to acquire to make these viable it doesn’t feel quite as gimmicky as ultras in SF4 or XFC as an example. But those kill one char and then it resets to a new round if they didn’t kill your anchor. Also every char has access to combos like this with bar.
Viper’s tools really arent all that great IMO.