Occasionally somebody will find a copy of something and it gets some stream time (like Jackie Chan… should have put that on my list actually), but yeah that would be awesome as a regular thing.
My main memory of Gowcaizer btw is the fact that it made me hate 2d games on the PSX. You saw more of the loading screen and its *(#@&$@# robot than you did of actual matches (it felt like)
Sadly, the only games I heard of before I played SFIV (And then stopped playing, because I didn’t like it) were Soul Calibur, Tekken, Virtua Fighter (Due to a local arcade machine), and Mortal Kombat, because you’d have to have been living under a rock not to know about Mortal Kombat.
I don’t like your sports analogy but let’s roll with it to explain what I mean:
Let’s say you take basketball and change its rules a bit- You lower the height of the hoop by half and remove 3 pointers from the game. Now more people can compete in it and do better, but did you make the game itself better or worse as a test of skill?
Now let’s add ultras to SF-
You used to need to make 10 good “lucky” guesses in a row to make a comeback,(the word lucky is in quotation mark because if you did it 10 times in a row it’s not really luck at work here) but now you only need to make one lucky guess to make a comeback.
So more people can compete and make a comeback! But is the game off better or worse as a test of skill?
That’s what I mean about (reasons for) popularity clashing with quality.
I suppose it depends on what the goal is. If you want a game to be a measuring stick of skill, than you want it to be as granular and as difficult as possible. If you want a game that is highly competitive, you want more people to compete. Chess is a more competitive game than ASL for a reason, and it’s not because winning at ASL doesn’t require skill.
I’m also not sure I buy your assessment of SF4’s ultra mechanic. I am not good at SF4 by anybody’s standard, bit not matter how many times I guessed correctly with a random ultra, I don’t think you’d see me end up in the top 8 of any tournament (unless there were <16 entries). In my experience, the ultra actually does very little to even the playing field between good players and poor players, it just occasionally trivializes the round that came prior to the ultra being obtained. Not an excellent mechanic by any stretch, but it does not appear to negate a skill differential in competitive settings.
A much stronger comeback mechanic is a very small life bar/high damage. That way, a couple correct guesses at any time could secure a victory.
Oh good god
Off-topic, but does Thrill Kill actually count, at least for a contender of Worst Fighter?
I said I wouldn’t get into this discussion in this thread, but I have to ask.
Why would somebody complain about comeback mechanics that randomize games and not immediately go to Xfactor?
I’d say actually released is a good standard. I gotta say I somehow hadn’t heard of that and had to look it up, good show 
Also, Pre-slump games I’d somehow forgotten: Killer Instinct 1/2 Rise of the Robots 1/2 (RoR 1 being funny because the robots in question could only face one direction), Metal and Lace, Gowcaizer, early Power Instincts, the TMNT and Ranma 1/2 console games.
No. You need the game to be not too easy but also not too difficult, as being too difficult will also make it based on luck. (For example, changing basketball so you are only allowed to throw full court shots)
You won’t see random people winning in any fighting game, but that’s not a way to measure the quality of a title compared to other titles.
That reminds me when Ultradavid said in an interview “luckily, ultras didn’t ruin SF4”.(not exact quote but it was something like this)
If the best thing you can say about a new mechanic is that “at least it didn’t ruin the game” then something has gone terribly wrong here.
The Neo Geo version of Gowcaizer is pretty good imo. Only problem is you need to beat the characters in arcade mode to use their arcanas in 2 player, iirc. And there’s that monkey guy with a really easy infinite. And the mini-me arcana is totally broken. Not a horrible game though.
again the main thing I remember is that loading screen, which haunts my dreams sometimes.
Yeah, I played the Neo Geo (non-CD) version of Gowcaizer and actually liked it. I’m actually looking for a cart now that I actually have an MVS.
I know I’m in the minority on liking it, though.
Round about 2001 I built myself a 2 player arcade stick for fighting games. I played most of the games on that list. By myself. The only games that ever got any vs play were SFII, A3 and a few older SNK games. And that was only when random people I knew from the arcades showed up at my place every few weeks.
Regardless of the number of games that were released in those years, people who think the scene was and alive and kicking back then are deluding themselves.
Okei guys, do you want some good shitstorm? you got it!: Everybody is forgetting Fate/Unlimited Codes and Shijou Saikyou no Teishi: Kenichi… and, guess what? well, THOSE ARE CAPCOM FIGHTING GAMES, in fact F/UC is even played in Capcom Historical Olympic event in Japan.
You will say “lol those anime fighters are not developed by Capcom!!!11” but, you know, Street Fighter IV and MVC3 also are NOT developed by Capcom, but by Dimps and Eighting, so… is a pretty funny thing everybody tries to erase from Capcom past or something like that.
Anyway F/UC was released a few months before SIFV, i think, maybe i’m wrong.
Fate was developed by Eighting, published by Capcom SF4 and MvC3 have Capcom listed as developers along with Dimps/Eighting
Came out 1 month before SF4 in June 08.
Thanks for the release date! now, about the development… how much really “Capcom” as a company works on SFIV and MVC3? i have a lot of questions about that, but that’s for another thread.
More like Incest Fighter Gowcaizer. At least I think there is incest involved in that series. I know some siblings were banging.
I’m really stuck on that idea of a ‘bad fighting game MST3K’, we need somebody with self-confidence, streaming equipment, and access to a ton of old bad games to step up and do this
I know when Min streams, there’s always some weird game on at some point lol. Spooky’s crew is poverty like that, old odd games by the dozen.
didnt also arcade emulators play a part in this? Apart from the various arcade bootlegs at that time it was much easier to play your favorite fighters of most systems on PC. SNK was the one hit most hard. that must have been a deterrent to make newer franchises for a while. Actually only recently are fighters of that era able to be emulated due to the hardware requirements.
there is no need to change the rules. to make things simpler, just compare FIBA and NBA rules and basketball. Completely different styles of play and each player good in one championship does not guarantee that he will succeed in another.
I read that KOF is regarded as the soccer of fighting games. Hopefully that goes only to denote its region popularity. Because in soccer, contrary to basketball, you can have the best team and still lose due to missed opportunities or solid but non-spectacular defence of the opponent.
In basketball this is less the case.
1: And who are you to judge what is “too difficult” and what isn’t?
What about those players that trained for it and enjoy their ultimate basketball where you are only allowed to throw full court shots? Their opinion doesn’t mean anything to you, just because you think that’s too difficult? How about the people that think a FG without comeback factor is too difficult?
There’s a bigger number of possible chess games than there are particles in the universe; one mistake that’s small enough to go unnoticed in something like SF (eg losing a pawn, which purely materialwise would be ~1/39th of your pieces which is ~2.5% so like 25 HP in SF) easily makes you lose the whole game; there’s no comeback factor whatsoever; people are trying to understand this game for 600 years now and they still haven’t grasped a notable portion of the real depths behind it; … and there is nobody sane ever stating that chess would be based on luck.
2: Ultras are a comeback mechanic that dumbs down the game?
Needing 10 guesses to have one combo which deals comparable damage to a basic Ultra setup? What games are you playing? In SFII, you needed 4 to kill,so that’s … 2 guesses for half of the HP bar (which is ~1 Ultra). So you reduce the amount of necessary guesses by one (or by 0, if Ultra doesn’t add Stun). Huge.
How many top level games have someone leveling the playing field by doing a random Ultra? How many games are there where you’d say “He only won because the comeback factor of Ultras is so strong, my god getting bodied totally gives you an advantage in this game”? If someone plays flawlessly and puts you to 30% HP without you being able to do anything and then you hit a random wakeup Ultra, that’s +300 Damage for you compared to an equally random SRK and now you can’t use that tool anymore plus your opponent now got a tool to kill you in one hit rather than in two-three.
Ultras are used as heavy punish tools (Making the game more difficult! Disallowing you to do certain unsafe shit because you might eat 500 damage rather than 200!), add something to the character/matchup (can’t throw projectiles anymore against Ken U2, etc whatever), add an additional layer of mindgames (not going to do something on Ryu wakeup if he has 2 Bars and Ultra stocked … wait, he knows that I know he got that …), … they’re another TOOL, nothing more, nothing less. If you just removed Ultras from SF4, the skill ceiling wouldn’t suddenly aspire to new heights (actually I’d say it’d get lower, but that’s just me).
3: Computer games got a very short lifespan.
To attract a notable playerbase, you need something that makes them want to play your game. A multiplayer game is only as good as its playerbase. It’s not like chess, where you can say “Fuck people not wanting to play this, we got a sufficient amount of players in any case” (this is actually not even the case in chess, the playerbase is dwindling rapidly which might pose a problem at some point in the not-so-far future). What good does it do you if you hold the best game in history in your hands but nobody else wants to play it and its a multiplayer game?
Someone like Latif would never have touched SF seriously if it wasn’t for the notable playerbase which allowed him to grind the online option massively. People want flashiness, people want unlockables, people want an easy start. You have to get people into your game to make them notice it’s good. In that sense, SFxTs apparent casualness might be a blessing in disguise - pulling in loads of players, warming them up for “the real deal”, making later FGs a lot more successful than they would otherwise be - similiar to how LoL made DotA a mass phenomenon and will make Dota2 a whole load more popular than it would have been if there was no easy way into the MOBA genre.
is this for any and every fighting game between 00-07 period?
cause the only games i can think of off the top of my head are some anime games