So I’m just curious how many of u guys and girls play Tekken on stick? And if so what stick do u have?
I use a TE with a modified Myoungshin Fanta.
So did T6 (even worse because of making even bdc much less viable) and I didn’t like how both T6 and T7.0 played. It seemed to be addressed in FR anyway, so what’s the issue with it now?
No, remember AOP getting hit with stuff like Generic df1s in T6? Tracking on Lars’ jabs? Random both side tracking of Law’s df2? Bryan’s taunt tracking both sides on tech? Steve getting combo after everything because of ff2 hitbox? T6 first complaints were movement nerfs and giant hitboxes.
VF characters are usually incomplete/weaker when they are first introduced (Goh and Brad in Evo, Taka in R), Tekken characters are usually the other way around. Again, would much rather have it the first way because a couple of comparatively weaker characters won’t ruin the whole game.
I think it’s perfectly fine to dislike something, or even voicing disagreements with the design choices a game developer makes (although some of yours regarding throws and backroll seem to coincide with T7). After all, we are the consumers and keeping these companies afloat. I fully support your right to not spend your money on something you most likely will not enjoy. The only thing I don’t like is misinformation and Tekken being so complex already makes it really hard to distinguish between correct and incorrect information, especially on a place like SRK. I saw your post about Killing Hawk in 2016 and refrained from correcting it thinking someone on SRK will know and post in the thread soon, but here we are.
Hori RAP with Crown stick.
To contribute something to this thread, profiles of all Tekken characters and their main storyline is now on official Tekken 7 website:
http://tk7.tekken.com/fighters
im not talking about the combo im talking about the setup
you should know to play dead
this isnt rocket science here. take the grounded hit and keep it moving
tech roll and reset the situation. having it patched is cool or whatever (not that it matters now but anybody who knows tekken knows that in that situation you take the ground hit cause of scaling
the reset is only good if you stand instantly
and the combo is whatever cause as i showed in the video during that online match there are combos that are way worse and do so much more damage.
I have a crown 307mj on my Madcatz TE2+ gonna b switching it out for a 309 soon tho. I saw that T7 website earlier apparently Leo is a dude? I thought it was a chick?
Never played Tekken 6.0, so I haven’t a clue in that regard. Backdash canceling has always been a crutch for an archaic movement system. I would enjoy seeing it disappear along with the associated battle seizures. I already acknowledged that it was addressed in FR. It left a bitter taste regardless. The main thing is whether the extra dimension of movement is viable without glitches like sidestep block. If it isn’t then jumping in 2D fighters is more relevant to a game system than 3D movement is in Tekken.
AoP needs to be launchable in the same way that Eddy’s HSP otherwise it is too dominant with all its movement and attack options and limited risk. In Tekken 6 tracking was very limited with respect to most character’s movesets, so it was easy enough to tell when to sidestep unlike in Tekken Tag 2. In Tekken as a whole there are some really awkwardly interacting hitboxes/hurtboxes that definitely have no visual contact, but still somehow manage to connect. There are also a few that make contact but do not connect (some inherited like Feng’s shoulder faze through, but there are a number unique to Tekken Tag 2). The worst of the bunch are usually limited to juggles, but in Tekken Tag 2 there are some crazy ones outside of that.
[details=Spoiler]https://youtu.be/gmUG1jR8C8g
https://youtu.be/_LR4KAsVvwg
https://youtu.be/Y4seR3rkh5w[/details]
*For the sake of retaining my sanity, I will not even bother to mention the shear quantity of issues in Tekken 7 and will simply refer you to part 2 of the Tekken Zaibatsu thread:
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=132237&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
Tekken 5 DR’s Dragunov and Armor King were far more incomplete than Goh, though that hardly has anything to do with a character being viable. Also Brad was pretty fully featured from the get go due to inheriting a bunch of stuff from Vanessa’s second style and was very good in Evolution. The case of Lei-Fei also contradicts your entire spiel as he started top tier in 4 and continued to be that way until Final Showdown nerfed him into the ground. Virtua Fighter 5R I know nothing about since it was exclusive to Japan. Personally, I would rather have newcomers go in the middle every time.
Tekken Tag 2 had an overpowered Killing Hawk that I witnessed first hand. What version had it is trivial. If anyone here was aware about version specific changes it would have taken them all of 30 seconds to post that information. The failure to do so was simply a demonstration of the lack of care about the subject matter.
But that was not the issue with it, it was more like T5.0 Bryan’s 121 snake edge at wall. If you tech you die, if you don’t tech you are taking the damage that you shouldn’t be taking in first place only because you can’t tech. Basically if you tech, you eat the unblockable into another combo, if you don’t tech the other character will reset the combo with a pick up and you eat the unblockable anyway. Even tag crash couldn’t fully prevent this. There is nothing else in the game similar to it and there is a reason it was immediately patched.
The things I mentioned also apply to BR although it had marginal improvements. BDC still covered very little space and moves tracked like whoa. Sidestep block in not a glitch and you do not need to even do it to evade a move, it is more of an option select like ECDG or EFDG. Sidestepping and sidewalking alone is usually enough.
- All the videos posted are displaying awkward situations instead of the hitbox issues. It actually shows that hitboxes and hurtboxes are smaller, hence Raven was able to ff3 above Alisa’s stance. ff3 always had a very small hitbox, but at least there are no axis issues with the combo now.
- AOP comparison with HSP makes no sense at all, if anything, you should compare it with RLX or BOK. It is actually one of the redeeming features making the game more diverse than generic. Tekken has been getting more and more generic since T6. BTW you can launch AOP, I think you meant airborne status. But airborne status gives less damage overall.
- Tracking wasn’t limited in T6, that’s the Tekken where they introduced homing moves. I also gave example of how moves tracked better in T6, could be because of nerfed movement, bigger hitboxes or a combination of two. Majority of moves are much easier to step/walk in TTT2 than T6. Why else do you think they nerfed the movement in 7.0 in first place?
- Yeah, Tekken is Tekken. There has never been a logical tracking system or to visually identify whether a move tracks and to which side. It didn’t make much sense in T3/TTT for Jin’s EWGF to track his left while WS2 tracking his right while both moves were uppercut launchers by his right hand. All the df2 have different tracking properties although they are visually very very similar.
Not disagreeing here, mid would be ideal but does not really work out in practice. New characters usually end up either being bottom or top. Yeah Lei Fei has been top, but I was talking about general trend of AM2. Marduk also happened to be bottom in 4, but other newcomers dominated. In the end, he had much less impact on overall game than Jin and Steve. Same goes for DR character, they were there and people played them but didn’t effect the overall game unlike Bob/Lars in later game(s). BTW Goh and Brad were both bottom tier in Evo.
This is SRK afterall, 3D is very very niche here and people playing those games don’t usually hang out in these forums.
EDIT:
Leo is a mystery.
Arcade is getting the console characters sometime this summer with the balence changes too, most likely. I guess they will keep updating it unlike TTT2.
I thought it was confirmed that Leo is female?
A few years ago on a TTT2 event in Germany, Harada confirmed that Leo’s gender is female. I don’t know if it’s true but that’s what I read on reddit.
There is a bikini alt, boobs included, for Leo in TTT2.
If Leo’s a dude, then there are some serious hormone issues going on.
But Leo also has beard customizations in T7.
I use a Cherry modded Sanwa JLF with a Seimitsu ls-32 spring in it.
Some other sticks I have are a Crown 309mj for Tekken if needed (great stick), along with a Hori Haybusa, and Seimitsu ls56 sticks.
Sidestep block in Tekken Tag 2 breaks the risk and reward scenario for an evade vs tracking moves. One character is forced to commit while another is able to cover both options.
A hurtbox or hit box that is multiple feet away from an opponent yet registers contact is bullshit as is a lack of detection when visual contact is made. This is far more prominent in Tekken Tag 2 than Tekken 6, I do not even understand how you can argue hitboxes/hurtboxes are generally smaller in Tekken Tag 2 as that would eliminate the aforementioned issues.
Art of Phoenix should be mid launchable on neutral hit and have the float of HSP to be balanced.
Sidestep in Tekken 6 is faster than in Tekken Tag 2 even if it covers slightly less ground in most cases and the 2 extra frames of input lag in Tekken Tag 2 slow down the overall movement. However, functionally sidestep is practically identical. Backdash canceling is better in Tekken Tag 2, but it is in itself a defect.
Spoiler
Many characters received more tracking moves in Tekken Tag 2, thereby reducing the viability of regular sidestep. For example, Lars’ tracking moves increased by 15% and he had one of the best arsenals of tracking moves in the roster of Tekken 6.
[details=Spoiler]
Tekken Tag 2: 28 Tekken 6: 24
1,1,(1)[LT] 1,(1,1)[LT]
1,(2)[LT] SAME
2,(1,3)[PRT] SAME
f (1,2)[LT] f 1,(2)[RT]
f (2,1)[LT] f 2,(1)[RT]
DE (1)[LT&RT] DE (1)[PLT]
DE (1+2)[LT] DE (1+2)[PLT]
f (1+2)[LT] N/A
f (1+4)[PRT] N/A
d/f (1)[LT] N/A
d/f (2)[LT] d/f (2)[PLT]
d/f (1+2)[PLT] SAME
d (2)[PRT] SAME
d (3,1)[LT&RT] SAME
d/b 1,(3)[LT&RT] SAME
d/b (2)[LT] d/b (2)[RT]
d/b (4)[LT&RT] d/b (4)[PLT]
b (1)[LT&RT] SAME
b (2,1)[PTL] N/A
b (1+2)[LT&RT] SAME
b 3,(4)[LR] SAME
u/f (3)[PRT] SAME
f,f (4,3)[LT] f,f (4,3)[RT]
f,f (1+2)[LT] f,f (1+2)[RT]
f,b 2,(1)[LT&RT] SAME
WS (1)[RT] WS (1)[PLT]
WS (2)[LT&RT] SAME
WC d/f (1+2)[2nd LT] SAME[/details]
Brad is mid tier in Evolution due to his quick pokes and easy juggles (at the cost of the damage). Goh is the only low tier as a result of his demanding execution and below average damage. Not that is matters much given the balance of the game allows any character to beat another… unless a Goh and an Akira execution monster collide, but fortunately I do not think anyone can play Akira 100%.
P.S. My PS3 just died and with it my access to Tekken Tag 2. I have nothing further to discuss about the game in the present or the near future.
If they’re making Leo a dude officially then they’re obviously saying that TTT2 is not canon or any information that comes from that game is subject to being plot-holed. Because Bikini’s and boobs don’t lie and Leo had that in Tag 2 and was even stated to be “female” in other parts of the game. Leo in 6 was never referred to by any gender, giving the player the option to basically choose. That or we legit have our first “gender-fluid” character in Tekken (or whatever the term actually is).
Leo was always a dude…
Tekken 6 happened a loooooooong time ago and people are still getting this wrong…
In the video below: 2:05 time stamp. Both Harada and Murray clearly state that Leo is a female. Some websites will still troll and state that Leo is a male in addition to containing a handful of male customization options. There is also the point that Leo was not referred to as a male or a female within the series universe or in the prologue in Tekken 6 and her gender was kept ambiguous for a while up until the point that her gender was confirmed. Until Harada and Murray officially say otherwise, Leo is a female. This should have already been made clear by her real name and the fact that her gender was already stated at the time Tekken 6 was a thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LvzFEKWzN8k
Yeah, and it has been in game since… Tekken 3? Even easier and better in T5 series? Nothing new here and there has always been ways around it and it has its on drawbacks. It’s not unique to Tekken either.
That ff3 vs Alisa video in particular that you posted actually shows that they are smaller. As you are implying that it would not happen in Tekken 6, which means Alisa’s low-profile stance will get hit by ff3 and Raven will not fly above her head and hit her when she rises. That would be either possible because (a) ff3 hitbox is big enough to hit Alisa out of the stance or (b) Alisa’s stance has a bigger hurtbox to be hit by it. Majority of the weird stuff happening in Tag2 IS because character hurtboxes (or moves’ hitboxes) are smaller, that is why some moves seems to go under more stuff than T6 (AOP and RLX for example). If hitboxes/hurtboxes were bigger, it would not happen and moves/stances would not go under or over stuff in awkward situations.
- A stance cannot be launchable and have a float status at the same time, it does not even make any sense.
- Where is the data of ss in T6 being faster? Input lag will effect both move AND sidestep equally.
- Tekken’s whole core game is based on movement and if you seem to think bdc is a “defect”, you are probably playing the wrong game. It’s like playing street fighting and saying combos are a defect because it started as an “unintended feature” or not doing air combos in MK because it started as a “defect” too. If you attended T3 and T5 tournaments, you should know how much role movement played (maybe not widely known at T3 time, but definitely at T5 times) in those games.
- I don’t know how you tested them or with which character and how much advantage, but I know for a fact that you can step df1+2 and d2 to either side at -1. I can record an upload a video if you’d like. Majority of the other moves and strings can be sidewalked, which is a superior lateral movement overall since T4.
From the tierlists and discussions I have seen, Brad was bottom. Here’s one: https://virtuafighter.com/threads/who-are-the-top-tiers-of-vf-4-evo.8167/
I still don’t understand how you are arguing both sides: on one hand you say sidestep block is too good, but also saying that lateral movement is useless? Which one is it? Is lateral movement too good or useless?
-Sidestep block is also a defect that is adressed by an 11 frame window that does not allow it. It is more relevant in Tekken Tag 2 because input delay (7 frames vs 5 frames) and slower startup animations (provided on the bottom for comparison) slow down the game enough to make it a powerful maneuver.
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/tekkentag/system_sidestep.php
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/tekkentag/framedata.php?id=forest
http://rbnorway.org/forest-ttt2-frames/
-Unless you can show me in a picture what you mean with your hitbox/hurtbox talk and you are speaking Greek to me. In Tekken 6, an attack hitting 4+ feet away from opponent would not happen outside of a juggle in my experience.
-AoP should allow generic mids to launch Xiaoyu, but should only give a limited juggle.
-Watch video at 0.25 speed and count from start of sidestep to next movement. The ratio of sidestep frames in t6:tt2 is roughly 4:5.
-I use backdash canceling, but only because the backwards movement is so limited in its range and there is a slow recovery animation at the end that also does not allow blocking.
-My list says that d/f 2 tracks left in Tekken Tag 2, but only partially tracks left in Tekken 6. In both games d/f 1+2 only partially tracks left. If it only partially tracks then it can be stepped if timed precisely. You can try out d/f 2 with respect to left tracking yourself. Lars and Xiaoyu were test subjects and sidewalk was used for testing.
-Most of those players never played Brad, so forgive me if I do not take their opinion at face value. I find even Jeffrey redeemable in the grand scheme of things. You are correct that Brad did improve in Final Tuned though.
-Raw lateral movement is less effective than in Tekken 6 due to slow down in general movement and more prominent tracking. Unmitigated sidestep block defect makes it better in higher level play, but renders many tracking moves useless. It is messy gameplay design.
- TTT sidesteps no longer exist, you were talking about T6 sidestep being faster than Tag2? Where is that data? T6 step can be cancelled just as fast as TTT2. Again ss cancelling was better in older Tekkens, remember ESS?
- Again, input lag has exact same effect on a move coming out and a step coming out. If a step comes out 2f later, so will the move.
The videos you posted showed me Raven going over Alisa b1 whiff (I could reproduce it in P-mode and there are occasions where he completely goes over her without hitting her at all), Leo’s uf2,1 going over Feng’s qcf1 and Feng going through Leo’s qcf1+2. Do these happen in T6 or will one of the characters get hit normally? Because if you taking a stance that this does not happen in T6, it would imply hitboxes/hurtboxes are smaller allowing Raven to go over Alisa and Feng’s qcf1 to go under more stuff. I do not see what is so complicated about it.
Bigger hitbox/hurtbox = Low profile moves and stances getting stuffed more often
Smaller hitbox/hurtbox = Low profile moves and stances going under moves more often
This is something many people including myself dislike about TTT2 (more moves going under/over stuff), but if hitboxes/hurtboxes were bigger this would NOT happen.
So you want mids to hit her even though they do not touch her body? How do you feel about other low profile stances like RLX, BOK, Zafina’s spider stance, Lei’s grounded stance etc.?
Backdash is completely safe, do not tell me you don’t know that.
If you used sidewalk for the test, it is flat out wrong. Most of this stuff is EASILY sidewalkable: 214 doesn’t track, b34 doesn’t track, df1+2 doesn’t track, d2 doesn’t track, WS1 can be sidewalked either side, df1 can be sidewalked either way, you can walk b21 to even his back, DE1 is linear and doesn’t even need sidewalk, DE1+2 is same, db4 can be walked to the right etc. etc. at neutral or minor advantage.
If you cannot sidewalk these moves using Ling who has one of the better ss and sw in the game, maybe you are doing it wrong.
Find any old tierlist, I would post one but would question the credibility of the player(s) again. Even in FT after he was improved, he was still mid tier so that says something.
There is no slowdown in general movement, movement is better in TTT2. Again, input lag will also affect the move coming out 2f later just as it will effect the sidestep, it will not magically make ss alone have the 2f lag. Again, please show the data of T6 sidestep being faster.
There is a reason they toned down the movement in T7.0 because at high level movement dominated the game like DR. Sidestep block has been in the game for ages and isn’t any different in DR and BR, probably even better in DR than TTT2. Namco Bandai has been going through buffing and nerfing movement cycle since TTT:
TTT = Godlike movement
T4 = Nerfed movement
T5 = Buffed movement
T6 = Nerfed movement
TTT2 = Buffed movement
T7 = Nerfed movement
EDIT:
What was the point of comparing Law data from TTT and TTT2? Are you saying that jabs and magic4 etc. were slowed down because of sidestep “nerf”? Here’s another surprise, T6 was the game when they slowed down all jabs and took 8f and 9f jabs out.
Hey bois, I’m in there to actually learn a Tekken game instead of playing super casually.
Can I try learning anyone with basic knowledge?