this is pretty off. tier lists are regional quite a bit but julia alisa king are not top tier. and lars has a 40 dmg low that u cant block on reaction, coupled with everything he does being mid makes him mean. steve is also a beast, i dont even need to explain that.
I’ll definitely agree with you on the fact that Paul has an above average df2, but so does Leo, and when you compare Paul’s strengths to Bruce’s crazy cd2 and cd3, plus what is arguably the best wall carry in the game it just doesn’t stack up. Well, I’m still happy old man Phoenix is at the very least a solid mid-card contender
You lie. Zafina is Top tier. She has so many safe moves and her moves are lightning fast. :).
On a serious note, in the SBO vids, there was a huge variety of characters actually. The winning team of SBO was Lili, Julia and Wang. I saw an Alisa player,and a Lars player.
The point is that this game is very diverse as oppose to maybe BB: CT for instance where for the most part, top tier dominated.
Not to mention that most of Lars NC’s are fast or just plain evil when punishing. And U/f+3
Blazblue was pretty balanced considering it only has 12 characters and like 4 characters can dominate… you have a 1/3 chance of picking a character that can dominate… thats better then most games:wink:
I guess if you think about it from that angle. Then you are correct.
Yeah sleepy zero forgot that juggles are only the second biggest thing in Tekken now. It’s all about who can counter hit the hardest. Lars is a beast on counter hit. So is Steve, Law and BOB!!
steve being the biggest beast… i think.
Leo rocks too IMHO, but CH Deathfist Leo does not have. 
Lars is not top/high tier???
one of the best if not the best punisher in the game (F24 F1+2 etc)
70-80+ dmg from almost everything without walls 100+ with walls
Lars is tier
I laugh at people who say Steve isn’t top or even considered being top.
That Euro trash has a answer for everything. Juggles/wall carries/okis/CH for free. Like really. Anyone who know’s even the basics with Steve and knowledge of how T6 plays can make you look bad.
Bob and Lars has fucking mixups. Plus being fast…easy bounding…I don’t even have to go further.
I’ve only touched T6 since the console version dropped and I can tell you with common sense and just a few matches with decent Steve players the dude is godly.
They arent. But they are AA tier (Christie only being lower because Eddy has longer limbs.)
The only thing Chreddy is missing is a quick punisher. Which would make them over the top IMO (imagine if uf+3+4 gave +frames) HSD and RLX mixups are too strong in Tekken 6. They have built in evasive attacks, stances that cant be thrown, that go under mids and highs, good damage off staple launchers, excellent wall carry, nasty combo reset game, juggles off of quick lows and good damage. Not to mention your fate is sealed if they get started in a stance loop mixup in the corner.
Chreddy could use a little more speed and a decent punisher, but they are definetely way better than over half the cast.
But what bugs me is it will be almost what…13 years since Chreddy was introduced to the series? and they still get the most hell. Mostly from people who never spent any time learning about what they can do, which is one of the reasons they are such a threat this time around.
And mind you, ill be controversial and say that the Japanese play a good Chreddy, but they dont stance enough. Even Qdogg plays a pretty stoic Chreddy. Somebody needs to really come out the woodworks with some unheard of shit and wow the crowd.
Ive seen some nasty eddie vids and i would totally pick him up but idk wtf im doing whenever i start using him:sweat:
isnt b.3f. pretty fast, it deals 30 dmg if the knee hits which aint too bad?
RLX mixups are ass now, thats why.
Zero please post that in the TZ tier list thread…I’d really like to see some opinions on what you think.
King’s punishment game is more than decent. It’s not the best in the game(really, does anyone punish as well as kaz?) but it is definitely GREAT.
King is top ranks, EASY.
What people don’t seem to get about king is that he’s the ultimate turtle… Look at his standard “jab” punishment… Not just at what’s “guaranteed” but the throw mix-ups as well… I mean -10 you get a GS attempt, -11_-12 you get a MB_GS_ISW mix-up which is literally a guessing game to break… If his back is to the wall a TINY mistake can cost you the match because GS to the wall hurts… Badly. Sure, it’s not guaranteed, but it’s 100% a GUESS of what he’s doing, there’s no reaction breaking this because all options have the same exact arm animation and it’s buffered so no tell tale movements. This alone makes small mistakes HUGE against king.
He deals 81 off hop-kick without walls with u/f+4, f+3, 2, f+2,2,2 b! ISW… -15 is a scary place to be with him. From FC he gets FC d/f+2, d/f+4,3, b+2,1+2 b!, ISW(on bigger characters he can switch out b+2,1+2 for f+2,2,2) for huge damage too.
b+1 will make people cry, believe that. Safe on block, hit confirmable 2 follow-up which leaves the opponent standing at a huge disadvantage, and on CH he gets a juggle. This is king’s magic number 4. It also whiff punishes like crazy with it’s massive reach. Of course, even from standard magic 4 he gets b+1, d/f+4,3, b+1,4 100% reliably. I know it’s possible to land Magic 4, f+2,2,2 b! but I can’t confirm ISW is possible from it as every time I’ve attempted it’s whiffed and I’m pretty accurate on my b! ISW so I think it may not be possible, but if anyone else has managed it PLEASE let me know!
Non-chickenable reversals, with guaranteed oki after… Off his kick reversal he gets guaranteed ground throw attempts.
Irish whip follow-ups are nasty too. One of them guarantees 2 ground throw attempts, and if neither is broken you’re looking at HUGE damage here. Ground throws are 100% a guessing game, as 1+3 and 2+4 both give the same animation.
f,f~n+1+2 ch fishing is fun, leading to a free b+3 or possibly even b+1,2 is distance is right. Free wall-splat at wall, 100% safe to attempt.
If king hits you, it hurts bad, but in T6 king is much better off playing defensive than as a bull. There really is no one that gives him problems in this game, as he has an answer for everyone and everything.
f+4 is one of the best tracking moves in the game. Crushes lows effectively, safe on block, splats, KD on hit.
Nin lists him as top 5, and I definitely take nin’s word on how good a character is. There’s just no match up that king doesn’t have the tools to win, plain and simple.
As for Julia… If you don’t list her as a top character, you’ve clearly never seen just how dangerous the girl is.
Right off the bat, second best throw in the game, Mad Axes. Only 1 frame slower than GS, requires a VERY quick break, great oki position after.
4~2,1… This move, when used correctly, is so good it’s crazy. 100% confirmable, used point blank it makes a decent poke, used out-side of jab range it’s an unseeable low that KD’s and wall-splats. Did I mention it can’t be crushed by normal means? It seems as though only Asuka can crush it with b+3, but I need to further test it. Jumps get floated by the 2 into juggle, so no hop kicking it. IMO this is easily one of the best lows in the game. IIRC it’s -12 on block and -4 on hit if the 4~2 both connect, but if the 2 whiffs the 1 follow up is guaranteed… This OWNS tech rollers, as now the 2 naturally whiffs on side-roll or so it seems. In other words, side roll at the wall? SPLAT! No need to space it.
She can launch -13 with f,f+3 if you buffer it into the guard. Do I really need to explain this?
Her wall game… Seriously. Do I need to even talk about this? Definitely one of the best wall carries in the game, no questions asked. I’ve seen her one or two characters length away from the wall, HER back toward the wall, and she carried her opponent to the wall and splatted him to follow up with d,d/f+1,2 on electric fountain… That’s just sickening. We’re talking clear across the stage!!!
I don’t play Julia myself, I’ve played against enough GOOD ones to know that without a shadow of a doubt she’s top tier. If you haven’t see how deep the BS goes with her then you’d think she’s just another character… It wasn’t until people discovered the secret behind 4~2,1 in the DR days that julia became top-tier in DR. As people notice more of her insanity, you’ll see her keep moving up that chart. She’s definitely one of the most over-looked characters in the roster.
if only 33% of the characters are viable at high level, it’s not balanced period.
Kaz punishes better than lars. There isn’t anything punishable that kaz has to let slide. Seriously.
I still don’t know where’d I’d personally place Lars as I haven’t fought enough of them though.
I’m hoping that -22 is a typo.
Anyway, steve’s big savior is how much poking efficiency has increased in tekken 6 br. 9 measly 20 damage pokes and it’s KO, and sneaking in 9 hits with someone as frame friendly as steve isn’t too difficult. Even then though, personally, I don’t see on paper how steve could possibly be top. While his wall game is absolutely insane, and he does punish non-launchable lows better than practically everyone and CH b+1 is the stuff tears are made of(considering all of the +f moves he carries), on paper his placement still just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Oddly enough no one has really been able to explain why he’s top either. They just all say he is.
Of course, now that everyone has access to tekken 6, I bet we’ll see a lot of shifting in the tiers.
What you fail to realize is even though some characters have a lot of tools, the characters that are supposedly “better” have ANSWERS for a lot of their tactics.
You are making these characters out to be great relative to themselves.
Theres really no use in arguring tiers if you dont know what every character is capable of.
EDIT: and the game is over a year old, just because its on console doesnt mean the tiers will change. if something brand spanking new is discovered and revolutionizes how x character is played, and x character begins to win tournaments then PERHAPS they could move a little.
Personally I think the top 5 have something very important that makes them so good : frame advantage. Bob and Steve can become disorienting with the amount of frame traps they can pressure on you in a matter of seconds. Its difficult to know whats going on if you dont at least know how to play a scrub Steve. Really, everybody is pretty good in Tekken 6, so now its about nitpicking individual traits and properties to really rank them over the rest of the cast.
Things are still being discovered… Game may have been out for a year, but an example is that it was just now discovered that asuka CAN get a launch off FC d/f+2 even though it was assumed for the entire year that she couldn’t. A perfectly timed CC d/f+2 will launch, but it has to be perfectly timed to the frame.
New combos are being discovered, new traps, new oki tricks… As I stated earlier… Julia was considered horrible when t5: DR first came out… months down the line someone noticed if the 2 whiffed in 4~2,1 the whole string connected… She went from close to bottom to the top. Some countries(Japan) considered her better than Kaz and a top 3 character… Off ONE discovery.
Another solid example is how long it was before people found out just how powerful bryan’s taunt was compared to how long he had the ability to do so.
Yeah, tiers aren’t decided so quickly, there’s still plenty of BS to be discovered, and before a LOT of top players didn’t have access to the game. Not only that, but a lot of people aren’t going to try out stuff that they’re unsure of because if it back-fires it costed them money, in some areas $1.50 per game!
btw, I can put that same info I just posted up against what the others in the cast have and you’ll see it still fits all the same…
Re: Lars
db21 is safe, super long range, ducks highs, hits mid, tracks, will refloat catch back rolls
df2 is safe, ducks some highs, and on CH gives inescapable crumple stun which leads to a big damage wall carry combo.
b1 is safe, long range, can’t be ss’ed/ducked/crushed
b22 is safe
21 is a 10f HM string. last hit (3_4) can be delayed. The 4 in 214 is a homing move to catch SS’ers, and the 3 is a mid that KND’s on normal to catch crouchers. Both wall splat.
df1 is safe, ducks highs, will refloat rollers
df3 is safe, can be used to setup DE mixups
b34 is HC afaik (I personally prefer using fb21 as a punisher, but I’ve seen people use this as a long range setup)
uf4 is safe, crushes a number of moves (mid mids, low mids, and crouch moves)
uf3 crushes highs and lows, hits grounded, will lift a back roller. in a combo, causes high W! splat
db4 should be used only at max range and as a CH move. One of the fastest, longest low sweeps in the game.
db13 is NC, and has really long range.
f24 is NC, huge damage, and W! to Lars’ left
ff1+2 is -11f with pushback. Basically unpunishable except by 11f magic 4’s, or really long 10f jabs
d2 leaves opp in FC on normal and on block, and 0f, and Lars recovers standing.
f1+2 will crush jabs at max range (Lars steps back slightly).
WS21 leaves opp in FC, and WS2~DE will create space. WS2 will catch back rollers, and hit side rollers.
WS21 and FCdf1+2 are -12f on block. Only ws4 punishable.
iWR3 is plus frames on block, mid, crushes lows, super long range. You can buffer it too.
iSW buffering.
uf1+2 throw wall splats. shoulder guaranteed after afaik.
db1+2 ducks highs, avoids short mids.
b1+2 ducks highs, wall splats, can be used in combo for wall carry/wall splat.
db23 in combo has great wall carry and wall splats. You can do f1+2, db2, db23 W! dash df1+2 B!, df1, db21, shoulder.
fb21 is 14f and is a super long range punisher. It will punish Paul’s DF on max pushback. It hits mid too, so moves that recover crouching will still be hit.
db2 can go into SE.
df3 can go into DE.
WS2 can go into SE and backwards DE.
b3 can go into SE.
f21 can go into SE.
SS2 is safe, KND on normal.
etc.
Kaz doesn’t have a db21
df1 is -10, can’t be used as a mid poke
f3 is -13
df2 is -12
1+2 is -14
db2 is too slow to used outside of a combo
22 is -10.
twin pistons is 13f with nerfed range, and -13 on block
df321 - only the knee is safe. 2 is -11, 1 is -19
No hopkick launcher to crush lows (uf3 is safe, but no guaranteed anything on hit)
No throw game
Poor SS game (no viable SS launcher)
etc.
The problem with Kaz is that practically everything you throw out carries some sort of punishment risk, because he doesn’t really have safe pokes to setup with.
I was replying to the guy who said Lars is one of, if not the best punisher. I said nothing about anything else… I never said kaz is top, or even that kaz is higher than lars. Only that kaz is DEFINITELY hands down the better punishment character. This is something very few would argue with.
13f standing launcher, 13f ws launcher(if this is out of range CC~ewgf comes EXTREMELY quick, faster than most characters ws launchers). DEWGF is probably still the best whiff punisher in the game. Also, SS~ewgf is VERY viable, for the record… I only mention it because it’s detrimental to his whiff punishing game.
I’m not going to discuss the rest, as I don’t main kaz, but in terms of punishment, which is all I brought up, kaz easily beats out lars.
Nice to know what Lars has though, but you did ignore a few things kaz does, but I’ll tell a kazuya player continue that conversation.
Well, I’ll agree that he has the best standing punisher in the game (EWGF), and some great damage combos to go with it, but… I can’t say much for the rest of his game.
Either f3 or 1+2 should have been safe imho.