You can chicken Wang’s reversals.
I was just saying dude. . the computer still does dumb shit, but when it comes to trying to find guaranteed damage and that sort of thing you usually see if it works or not if the computer never has a was to weasel out of it. Really, try that stuff in practice. It’s guaranteed damage, but its crap damage so nobody really cares. Oh well.
Anyway, I was talking about the Soul Calibur 1 engine. It’s slightly different and more forgiving than SC2. But if SC2 didnt have step guard and g-step, and some other bull I would probably say SC2, so either way I believe the SC engine to be better. I prefer it over Tekken BECAUSE the engine IS better, I dont think its better because I like it.
-Alright . . Soul Calibur is better than Tekken because it’s not about block block block . . wait for an opening . .launch . .combo combo combo . .wall hit. .combo combo . … they tech roll . .oki oki oki . .get up. . block block block. I know someone is going to chime in with a “STFU noob” but I was playing Tekken 3 and TTT until I went insane and then T4 ended up being bleek, and T5 really pissed me off with the oki, so I think I have played it for a few weeks. Tekken 3 was NOT like that. I LOVED Tekken 3, it did everything right. TTT was awesome too. T4 and T5 just dropped the ball for me.
-There arent air combos. Getting launched in Tekken is like a slow motion train wreck. You just watch as your life bar floats away, but thats half the battle because now you’re lucky if you dont get hit standing up. Ground recovery in SC in near instant.
-Theres a block button
-Each character can go about a win in different manners rather than using the same strategy with a different person.
-Theres no impossible tier. Ralphael sucks ASS, but he has a chance against ANYONE in the upper-mid tiers. In SC the low tiers arent AS suited, but they still have the tools to get the job done. Any character is good enough for tournament play. Because of the weapons characters dont all have to be up close to whoop some ass.
-Emphasized spacing. Rarely in Tekken do you see the characters 4 or 5 steps apart if noone has been grounded/knocked back. Its not so in-your-face
I hope if doesnt sound like I’m slamming Tekken. I really do sorta like it. 
Not his Left Punch reversals. Which is what I meant.
My thoughts exactly.
The AI NEVER tries to evade stuff like that. If you do something it will try to interrupt you with a move of its own. Don’t EVER bring up Namco AI in an argument. Test that shit yourself using command capture or a friend.
Prove it. I myself prefer the SC engine, yet I haven’t seen you give one real shred of evidence to back up this claim.
STFU N00B!!!
Seriously, what the fuck? T3 wasn’t like that? T3 was disgusting. That game had TONS of bullshit all over the place, the balance was whack, damage was insane, it was just a fucked up game period. And considering the fundamentals of the series haven’t changed that much since T3 (besides T4), how was T3 any different when it comes to play style than T5?
So what if there are no air combos? If there weren’t ring-outs and the combo system was different, there would probably be no need for air control.
As for getting up, that’s a big reason why knockdowns SUCK in SC. One of the HUGE changes they’re making in SC3 is the addition of a delay for any moves performed while knocked down. This is a great improvement to say the least.
As for Tekken, how easily you can stand up and avoid damage depends on the situation. I personally don’t like the get-up mechanics but I’m not stupid enough to eat a free hit 'cause I don’t know shit about the game.
Are you kidding me? SC has HUGE problems with diversity, due to the fact that defense is A) similar between all characters and B) most moves suck. Which characters can actually win using multiple playstyles once people stop sucking and don’t lose to gimmicks? I’d say Yoshi, Voldo, MAYBE Taki and Ivy. Sidestep alone creates big problems with diversity because you are forced to counter it with a limited number of tools. If you deviate from using those tools, you lose.
First off, Raph doesn’t suck ass, not even close. His supposed crappyness is a long-held belief that’s far too common among players such as yourself who don’t know JACK SHIT. Raph isn’t great but he’s got more than enough to win.
As for the game’s balance, it’s all sub-system based. As a result, it’s BORING. Yunsung can win, but so what? Both using him and facing him on a tournament level is boring as fuck because he’s stuck playing uber-turtle with crappy tools. Even good characters like Kilik and Mina have seen hardly any representation in tournies, because there’s not much reason to use them over other characters.
Spacing in SC isn’t very consistent because spacing ability between characters isn’t very well balanced. Ivy in particular is bastly superior at spacing because her moves are well balanced in relation to movement in terms of reach and speed. Her 2A alone makes her poke range the equivelant to most character’s mid-range moves. X is a better mid-range character than most mid-range characters, yet she’s part of the fastest speed class. And in the end, the game still emphasizes getting in someone’s face if you want to win. Mid-range mixups and pressure don’t really exist.
If this isn’t a tongue-in-cheek statement I don’t know what is. If you’re being sincere then you’re even dumber than I had thought.
You can ALWAYS chicken a reversal like Wang’s, no matter the move.
Wang’s parry can’t be chickened, obviously, because it’s a parry.
Perform a move that has your character doing something with their left fist that is counterable(Nina/Anna df+1, for example). Try to chicken as Wang reverses it.
Do you understand now?
Now, shut up.
What makes a block button better than holding away from the opponent? Block button IMO makes the transition from offense to defense and vice versa more sluggish/impeding. SC would be way better I feel if it had Guilty Gear’s setup(sans the burst).
My mistake, I do now.
The transition between offense and defense is sluggish only if the blocking mechanics are slow. One could argue the 2d-style of blocking is potentially slower because it restricts your movement in defensive situations (although this depends on the game; I’ve had some issues in Guilty Gear due to proximity blocking, especially vs Eddie’s Invite Hell).
I personally feel a blocking button is ideal for 3d fighters. It’s not necessary for 2d as it would drastically change many aspects for the worse IMO (especially crossups), but in 3d games you need a more precise means of control when tracking the opponent. That being said, I don’t see a point in adding a block button to Tekken. Tekken doesn’t really emphasize 3d movement like SC, plus it’d make the control scheme a little weird. There are some exploits that are made possible by the game’s blocking mechanics when your back is facing the opponent, but making that big of a change just doesn’t seem worth it. Might as well start from scratch with a whole new series (which is basically what led to SC).
Depends on how the G button is used. In SC, it’s just used for GI, and retreat/advancing guard. In VF it’s melded into the game more. It’s used to cancel dashes/crouch dashes, and clearing the input buffer.
VF’s buffer cancels is something I REALLY wish more games had. Great feature.
tekken 5 is tight
Would you just RELAX? I didnt say the AI would EVADE, I said I tested it to see if the AI would attack first in the event that it happened. And the AI didnt, which makes it guaranteed. The computer on very hard is way too cheap to eat the same thing over and over if its not guaranteed. So that bull about Namco AI being dumb is moot.
You act like I’m some big idiot for testing in practice mode when thats what you are supposed to do. If you dont know if something works then you set it up in practice and test it out.
My “proof” was below the statement you jumped at the chance to pull apart.
No, Tekken 3 wasnt like Tekken 4 or Tekken 5. It was better. Its not any more glitchy than wall infinites in 4 and 60% combos in Tekken 5. If the gameplay fundamentals were the same people wouldnt still prefer Tekken Tag over Tekken 4 and 5.
If the damage is too much then make the lifebar bigger. But thats still retarded bacause the damage is STILL small compared to Tekken 5 so I dont know what you’re talking about.
There are no air combos and it makes the gameplay faster. You dont see your life flash before your eyes. And there is no combo system, there might be a few characters with more than 3 consecutive attacks. And theres pretty much no more than a hit or two in the air.
Thats your opinion. If people thought knockdowns SUCKED then it would be a lot more people playing Tekken. And it doesnt seem that way over at soulcalibur.com
The addition of the slowed ground game is nowhere near ‘HUGE’ as you put it. Going back to the SC style of parry/GI and taking out g-step is much more monumental. You can still instantly recover in standing guard.
Well nobody is stupid enough to take free hits, they are kinda. . you know. . unavoidable when you hit the ground. In the little time I played Tekken I played Christie and Feng, and you got HELLA hits once you got someone on the ground.
You dont like the get up mechanics in Tekken 5, yet you say the ground game in SC2 sucked and its good that its a little slower in SC3. So you want Soul Calibur 3 to suck like Tekken 5? Thats what you pretty much said.
How many ways can you block?
Only makes me question how all-knowing you claim to be about Soul Calibur. Thats YOUR opinion. I can only think of about 3 moves that are useless for Ivy::
-236B
-44[A+B]
- A+B, ( i forget the stane name) A
I use EVERY single move that Ivy has. Maybe its because shes one of the better players but “most” of nothing sucks. Each character has at least 10-15 moves that make them what they are. Some have even more.
Yoshi - yes, Voldo - no, Taki - not so much, Ivy - yes
Personally I would have said Mitsu, Ivy, Yoshi, Talim and X are the most versitile.
Yoshi is a monster period. Voldo isnt as tricky as he seems. Taki is nothing since the revision of Arcade SC2. PO rush cancel isnt scary anymore. Talim is way more versitile than Taki. Ivy to a certian extent. She excels in spacing, but she’s decent in keep away once you invade her space.
So explot the system. If everybody uses step G then then playing field becomes equal again.
Nobody is TERRIBLE with sidestep, but perhaps with the bottom 3 is pretty bad.
You pretty much repeated what I said. Ralph has what it takes, but yes he sucks.
Ralphs problem is that he’s too vertical. Plain and simple. If you were to play a Taki or Talim of your equal, you would have a very hard time trying to gain the upper hand.
Yet Ralphael is one step above Yunsung, and all of a sudden Yun is boring? What do you think that makes Ralph? Ralph is just as bad.
I dont understand how you can say Yun is boring, but Ralph has “THE TOOLS” to win. Yunsung is DEAD LAST and Ralphael is NEXT TO DEAD LAST. Everybody knows. It’s not a bandwagon, I used to like them BOTH until I saw how hard it was to win, so I picked up Nighty. Ralph has crappy tools as well.
Mina perhaps, but Kilik can hold his own. I dont know why people wouldnt use him in tourneys. He can keep you in front of him all day long.
I disagree. Ivy is ridiculous at spacing but those same moves at close range ARENT going to happen. Those same moves up close are useless, which makes up for her dominating at her perfect range.
Her 2A is nice. It’s no Xianghua 3A.
I agree. X is a better everything.
I disagree.
Ivy, Kilik, Mina, Talim, Nightmare, Cery . .they all proove that mid rang pressure can and does exist.
. . .
you fucking suck dude.
man up, admit it, think twice before posting.
thats it.
It’s what happens when GD is gone
I suggest you give up believing this nonsense right now. Just about every character in Tekken 5 has a pattern that will beat the AI 100% on the hardest difficulty setting. In fact, such patterns are MORE likely to work on higher settings than Easy and Normal. It’s the same in SC2 as well. In fact, Namco AI has been vulnerable to patterns since Tekken 1.
First off, how are 60% combos glitchy? Second, you think T5 damage is bad? 70~80% combos were VERY common in T3, especially among the top tiers.
As for fundamentals…I noted T4 was different, did I not? And yes, T5 is still fundamentally similar to T3. You got walls (which are extremely simple and mostly just there for damage), some tweaks in movement, sidewalk, and a few other modifications, but the “block/wait/launch/combo” nonsense you mentioned has always been there.
You do not know shit, end of story.
Don’t lecture me about the combo system:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/file/soul_calibur_ii_combo.txt
The effects juggles have on pacing is a personal thing, not a design flaw. As it stands you GROSSLY exagerrate T5’s combos to a large degree. Your argument seems based mostly on the assumption that people are ALWAYS getting juggled. Good players naturally avoid big damage, thus you need to mix everything else in. This is true in both SC AND Tekken.
How dumb are you? SC2 is a DEAD GAME!!! SC.com has been effectively dead since T5 came out, and it wasn’t that busy near the end of the game’s life. As I’m writing this, there are less than 60 people browsing SC.com, less than 20 of whom are registered. TZ has roughly 300 people online right now. The numbers aren’t even close. And how do you explain this year’s Evo? T5 has one of the highest number of paid registrants. SC2 didn’t even come close to making the cut. Just stop while you still can, please.
How is it not drastic? This automatically makes wakeup WAY more powerful, and certain characters (namely Mitsu and Asta) are gain major advantages now that a grounded opponent cannot move or attack as if they were standing. SC1-style GI doesn’t significantly improve offense by itself; this does. And last I checked, step-G was still in the game (but that was in the E3 build).
Name specifics. Feng’s easiest option vs grounded is d+4, which is nowhere near free unless it’s used as a combo ender.
I hate the mechanics because the options you have on the ground and how you execute them feel slow and out-dated. In other words I just dislike the controls in that particular situation; I’m still fine with having some kind of advantage after a knockdown. SC2 does not give any significant advantage because with all the options you have while grounded, you might as well be standing. Don’t put words in my mouth.
If blocking were the only form of defense you would have a point. You have sidestep, GI, and jumping. All 3 are universal counters that all characters must deal with. GI is pretty well integrated, but sidestep alone has severely hurt the game’s overall depth since it first came out. There is no built-in counter to step-G and you can count the number of good horizontal lows on one hand.
My opinion is based on a LOT of tourney experience, including majors. Who the fuck are you to question anything I’ve said?
Why would I have ANY reason to get hit by the majority of Ivy’s movelist? Her AA is shit, her stances all have holes, none of her unblockables are good, all of her mid to long-range moves can be blocked or GI’d on reaction, and even moves that are decent are often just inferior versions of her bread-and-butter.
At least 10-15? More like 5-6. It’s amazing how little you seem to have played this game on ANY serious level.
lol, are you kidding me? Mitsu is one of the simplest characters in the game. His step sucks so he plays almost like a Tekken character. You play safe and poke, you knock them down, then you push 50/50’s. That’s about it. He’s got a few fancy gimmicks but hardly any of them are worth using in the long run.
Talim has some diversity but in the end she’s basically like X, just with less range but even more safety and some evasion. Xianghua has 2 styles: RTD’s and everybody else’s.
Who said anything about tricks? His bread-and-butter is cheap and plentiful. He’s also one of the few characters who can play stance-based or not. Compare Manta’s Voldo to Aris’ Voldo to Goofus’ Voldo. All 3 use different styles and they’re all effective.
Are you serious? I hope that’s just a typo 'cause PORC hasn’t been used since SC1. EXC is and always will be better, and it’ll always be practical 'cause EX is just a great unblockable, plus being able to cancel it on the FIRST FRAME means she gets TONS of frame advantage when she hits you. If you block, she still gets free pressure if she’s faster, but otherwise she’s safe and often at neutral anyway.
Yes, the playing field IS equal…and boring. If you don’t have a good counter to step, you’re forced to severely dumb-down your game because you lack the means of conditioning someone not to abuse step in the first place.
Tiers and how well you use step aren’t related. Yunsung is shit but his sidestep isn’t any worse than average, plus his post-step punishment is good enough. The real problem is the fact that he has no offense; just turtle and he’s screwed. Mitsu has one of the worst steps in the game, yet he’s easily top 8~10 at least.
On the flip side, having one of the best steps in the game is definitely a major reason why Ivy is so good, but it wouldn’t mean shit if she didn’t have anything else. That’s why Cervy isn’t considered top tier anymore; people just stopped throwing shit out to get sidestepped, so it got a lot harder to win with him.
Are you impaired at reading or something? I said he wasn’t great, I didn’t say he sucks. Yunsung and Maxi suck 'cause they work way harder than other characters and offer no compelling reason to use them. Raph has tools other characters don’t.
Raph’s linearity was over-hyped 'cause it’s a problem for just about every character in the game. He’s a turtle character anyway so that makes it even less of an issue. Helps that 6B,B tracks well for a horizontal. Plus his 2K is an outstanding low, so he can pressure when he needs it. Frankly, it seems you don’t know shit about Raph, seeing as how you’re way behind in how the game is played.
Define “everybody”. And yes, it’s a bandwagon. Talk to people who PLAY THE GAME!!! Seattle thinks Raph is good. SoCal thinks Raph is good. Chicago thinks Raph is good. Don’t know about other areas but nobody I’ve met who knew the game really considered him low tier after we learned how to win with him.
You don’t read. I said nothing about them being unable to win, just that they aren’t used in tournies. Quite frankly, I don’t consider them good tourney characters. Kilik is especially dependant on forcing mistakes and takes a lot of work, which is a pain in the ass when someone refuses to take risks.
You seem hell-bent on proving just how little you know. Ivy’s 2A is THE BEST poke in the game, hands down. K2 is a great low. 4A+B: B is an insanely scary mid. Smart buffering actually makes CS practical. Her “perfect range” is her 2A range, mixed with some mid-range action to piss them off. If you don’t threaten them up close, what can she do? She’s not going to hurt you if she stays away because she doesn’t have any mixups outside of poke range. The awful thing about Ivy is that you want to get in on her, but she’s no less scary when you’re in her face.
You’re right, it’s better in some aspects. Much faster and much safer.
What mid-range pressure? Talim can’t do shit to you when she’s not in your face (why you listed her there is beyond me). Nightmare has no mid-range mixups, neither does Cervy. Ivy, Kilik and Mina’s mid-range game is based mostly on whiff punishment and counter-hits. They require spacing but if you’re playing defense, they can’t really pressure you with mixups.
how did a tekken 5 thread turn from that to a vf, soul calibur thread?
because it just sucks that much