Teach YOURSELF MvC2: Or How To Use Your Mental Faculties

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
1

I just CTRL+W’d my draft for this thread so this is going to be the abridged (and possibly more hostile) version.

This is a thread for new users who for lack of better options find themselves asking simple and readily answered questions like:

What is a TK?
How do I do XX infinite?
Lemme get some dog comboz wid SeNtinaL??!?

This is wrong, as typically these questions are answered and added to the duplicate masses of threads devoted to identical topics. ALL THAT THIS ACCOMPLISHES is to clutter the boards with garbage and discourage the handful of people who post AND know what they’re talking about on a high level to keep it to themselves, or keep it to instant message. It’s not fun and accomplishes nothing for them to answer the same question over and over. Magnetro has addressed this in multiple topics, often with justifiable venom.

**
The bottom line is this:**

If you think you want to learn how to play Marvel, take a second to ask yourself another question.

Wouldn’t you much rather learn how to LEARN and PROGRESS in the game of Marvel?

It sounds like the same question, but it’s not. The rewrite describes the approach of the top players in Marvel. Whether they live in a mecca like NYC, or SoCal and played with OG top players or they were a part of an isolated community-- top players are top players because they can take what information is available and turn it into a self-acquired knowledge.

That’s the first step. Now, watch some high level match videos, anything from SB2 or SB3 will do, and listen for someone to say “Smart Stuff”. You should have no clue what they’re referring to.

That’s the second step. And the only step. Turning what you know, into what you can do is all you’ve got (im gonna get deep here for a minute) in all of MARVEL. So when some smart stuff happens, that’s the force at stake: turning (often-times little-known) knowledge into practice in a given in-game situation.

If you want to learn to learn, and become a competent player and not just waste peoples time, learn to use these resources:

Resources

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=124324
If you are new to the game, and have a question. It IS in here.

http://zachd.com/mvc2/
Learn to use the search function. Remember to allow for more results by changing the results number and refreshing the page. You can find just about everything you’re looking for here. Remember to thank this man at every opportunity.

http://zachd.com/magnetro/
In the olden days, if you wanted to learn anything about Marvel frame data, you had to wade through pages of Google Engrish to translate Joo’s data from Japanese. This is Magnetro’s ongoing project to bring that information to players here in good old USA. A lot of this applies to combo video applications, but don’t sleep on the wealth of engine knowledge present here. Remember to fear this man.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.co.jp%2FPlaytown-Domino%2F3677%2F&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0=
This is Joo’s site in old Engrish. If you have any interest in this, you’re on your way to learning how to learn.

2

Teach me how to master Super Jump canceling. I’m not consistent with it, and it would add greatly to my overall game.

3

On the SJC frame(s) of a normal, press down, then press up.

You can’t teach SJC, it’s all feel. You can only learn it.

That said, and going more along the emphasis of this thread, if you are serious about learning how to SJC, use this:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.co.jp%2FPlaytown-Domino%2F3677%2F&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0=

(Go Data > Super Jump Cancellation)

It’s not perfect, and a lot more normals are SJCancel-able than are listed there. Data is Standing/Crouching, Light->Med->Hard. Pretty straight-forward. Anywhere you see a period, treat it like a comma (Japanese equivalent). 2.3 is not 2 point 3 frames-- there are no parts of frames.

Basically using this table identifies which moves you can SJC, and gives a rough idea of where in the animation you can SJC cancel.

Practice with something easy first like Magnus cr.HK. Extremely lenient window.

Now for a homework assignment, pick Amingo. All of his normals SJC. Find the windows for each of them. This will teach you how to approach SJC windows on your own.

4

Cool, I already play Amingo so that works out just fine.:woot:

5

um yea. i don’t think anyone doesn’t KNOW where the information is. it’s a matter of making sense of the information.

just because i have access to a spanish dictionary doesn’t mean i’m gonna learn spanish anytime soon.

delete thread.

6

The old saying holds true “you can lead a scrub to water, but you can’t make them think.”

7

I can’t say I don’t agree with that, but its obviously not the case with these forums. I’ll bet you in a just a few minutes I scan these forums and grab multiple cases of people making duplicate threads and asking the exact same questions brought up in a previous thread. And rather than simply use the search function or look back at the old threads they just create new ones. No one bothers to look at the character threads anymore or anything. I remember this one time, a person created a duplicate thread while the other hadn’t even been pushed to the archives yet…its just stupid. I believe ECZangief is trying to amend this.

8

Hmmm…I get what you’re working towards ecz, but there are certain basics of fighters that you can’t ‘teach.’ These things are instilled in players via their own motivations the more they immerse themselves into competitive gaming or competition period, actually.

I have heard some guys call it ‘natural skill.’ The sense of fighting. There are some players who can pick up whatever game they want and learn to play according to it’s system pretty quickly.

What you can’t teach is the EVOLUTION of the gamer (example):

I started playing X-Men vs Streetfighter more recently on 2DF along with some other games. My first match, I can jump and move and dash and all that good stuff; I can do special moves; I can do basic combos; I know my character’s special moves; I can space as if I have some idea of what I am trying to do offensively/defensively; not too bad of a start. This basic knowledge allows me to beat average opponents who also play the game every now and then just for the heck of it since they have a cute liking towards it. I am not forced to go outside of my comfort zone in order to win so much at this point, but having seen competitive play in this game before, I am aware of the same arena having much more dangerous capabilities.

By happen-chance one day, I log on to 2DF and get challenged by a big name to the XvSF community. This guy kicks my ass…HARDDDDD. I play with keyboard, but I am aware that I am simply getting my ass kicked because he can do that. He completely invades my personal space over and over again, he puts me in numerous situations where whether or not I get hit into something sick is determined by my very next decision or series of choices. What is most important:

HE PREVENTS ME FROM WINNING

This is the essence of the thing that can’t be taught: drive. How bad do I want to beat you? How bad do I want to contend with you? How bad do I want to survive longer?

After you hit that point and decide on why it is that you continue to fight (you love the game, you want to beat a certain person, you simply want to be better, your community plays it, there is a grand-prize tourney coming up, you suck at everything else, etc.) you will naturally take the steps necessary to do what it is you want.

If you die too fast, you think of ways to prolong the fight:
-you spend less time in the places where your opponent can do their most damage
-you learn to block specific set-ups or popular patterns of attack (which is not that hard, but takes experience)
-you learn to exploit mechanics of the specific game that are offered to you (such as pushblocking, guardcanceling, parrying, sidestepping, sudden defend, assist calling)

If you can’t land enough damage on-hit to win the match:
-you learn combos
-you learn traps/set-ups (attack patterns, stalls, keepaway…all which usually play on chip damage or mix-up)

The question that most players should first find the answer to is:
-why do I need to know this?

I want to learn Sentinel stomp patterns.
Why?
Stomp patterns are a strong part of Sentinel’s pressure game (especially corner).

I want to learn how to super-jump cancel. (which turns into: I want to learn how to super-jump cancel move A)
Why?
If I super-jump cancel this move, it allows me to do this combo.
If I super-jump cancel this move, it allows me to work this mix-up/set-up.
If I super-jump cancel this move, it keeps me safe from retaliation.

It is an on-going process that you could repeat until you either:
-realize you have reached a point where you can win with what you know and can do
-have found another game or something else in life to capture your interest
-grow tired of the respective game or it dies in your community as far as gameplay

In actuality, this process is a thread that runs through a lot of things in life. So, at this point, if someone is trying to ‘learn’ MvC2, the info is already here and in great numbers. If you want to know something, try to find it. If you can’t find it, there are people here who are willing to help b/c they have recently gone through the same. All that said and done though, if you’re not of the necessary mental faculties to put up with the personalities of players in your community, then you need to recheck your drive for the game. You will play people who will be friendly with you and help you by communicating with you; you will play people who will repeatedly do certain set-ups to you b/c they realize that is all they need to beat you; you will play people who will simply try to rape you on experience alone by not allowing you to attack; and some people will actually communicate to you and plenty others just how much you suck. At that point, think on why you suck or why they say you suck and try to suck less and grow to the point where you can, jokingly or not, tell them how much they suck. If the stress is more than you bargained for over a game for casuals, then eat it, make light of it, or find something that suits you better. Also there will likely be a wall that you will hit that will cause to think either:
-damn, this game is so basic. people always approach in the same ways for attack or they always use the same combos or they always do the same things
-damn, i’m getting my ass kicked and getting no better at it

At the wall, it helps to drop the games for a while to give your strategic brain time to think on why such and such is going and try to come up with new, innovative approaches…or look at what other people have to say who have gone through the same.

Evolve. Have fun. Play…but in competitive scenes, sometimes you just gotta leave your emotions in the background and just do the damn thang.

9

Good post.

I wanted to say: yes there are a lot of resources out there for both aspects of MvC2, the technical or combovideo and the tactical or match aspect. There are enough of these resources to get good at both, but like what judge_rl said, there are roadblocks that cant’ be taught with text or videos. For combovideos/thatkindofstuff it’s some kind of creativity or intuitive insight i dont want to explain ALONG WITH DEDICATION. Same thing for matches and competitive play, you have to have some level of innate ability that will help you get better and actually level up AS WELL AS DEDICATION.

I do see the point of this thread, though. ECZ wants the new people or lazy people to know what’s out there so they can answer their own simple questions. However, I dont think this thread will even get noticed by the new/lazy people cause it seems like it’ll be hostile towards them. :confused:

I like how you said “justifiable venom”. Really got it right.

10

Good post Judge. I don’t want to teach anybody anything, nor do I really want this to be a Q/A thread.

I’m glad this is turning into a Mental Approach type thread, because Domination 101 tends to get jumbled. Nice to have a place for Mahvel random yomi talk.

Jaded, thanks for your post. I know I always wait in anticipation of the positivity you provide whenever you post up. Thank you.

11

Just coming back to say I’ve made progress on SJC! Its small, but its a start. The other night I was working on Morrigan’s cr.lk ~ j.lp (Can someone say IOH?) And if the cr.lk connects than it combos anyway. I’ll keep working at it.

12

it all comes down to two things

how well your able to continually look for your opponents next move during the match, and how often you spend time playing the game in both training/vs mode.

Honestly, you can express to someone how the game works, but they’ll never understand it until they’ve been in the situations long enough where they can TRULY understand what your talking about.

13

No, you won’t learn it any time soon because you’re retarded.

Not everyone has the time to teach potential new players how to play the game so they often get beasted and just quit before they start to enjoy the game. Sending them to this thread helps and makes them feel (I hope) that they can learn and get good on their own (that is, ignoring retards like Jaded).

Yea, you can’t replace playing the game, but forums like SRK allow players to learn beyond what they learn from their own experience.

If you were to never go to any site for combo information nor watch gameplay videos would you know as much or be as good as you are? Threads like this definitely help.

14

It’s important to be able to identify what you don’t know. Luckily there are places that have the relevant information for MOST problems. The problem is awareness and general ignorance or unwilling attitudes. Awareness is weird, there is SRK and youtube, but no other way (short of telling people @ arcades) to get people to move the right way. Maybe a press conference?

General ignorance comes from lack of awarness but I think it’s deeper. Ignorance is hard to fix without fully being aware of what you don’t know. I mind fucked myself when I was a kid when I thougth: “What don’t I know?”, now I see how important that question is when encountering and attempting to address a lot of different problems. IMO, the first step to fixing general ignorance is listing all things you’re unaware of in a systematic fashion and following up from there. Of course you can’t list EVERYTHING 'cause you’ll miss the ones that don’t exist. Doing the best you can is the only thing that can be expected.

The unwillingness can only be fixed by the person that feels that way. Sure people can try encouraging the person, but ultimately, it will be up him/her to act.

I can’t stress the importance of identifying your weaknesses. Once you think you understand what you are weak in, try thinking harder to examine your problem more thoroughly. Doing so will greatly help you. It will keep breaking down. It’s like magic – when you take a step back and you see how much you’ve listed and how much can be done, it’s really cool. Program pads are great.