I think Ken’s low forward avoids Tiger Knee too. Just wanted to add that in.
been messing with tiger knee and it opens up a hell of alot of mixup opportunities. pretty much screws them over if they get stuck in a corner as well.
after a blocked safe :mk: tiger knee you can:
- c.:lp: > c.:mp: xx :mk:TK (for more pressure; yup the knee is safe again)
- c.:lp: xx TS (for pushback)
- c.:lp: > crossup j.:lk: (crossup; the c.lp positions u perfectly so crossup hits deep)
- c.:lp: xx TS > FADC > c.:mp: > TU (fast sikass mixup; they will never mash or try to interrupt after the knee again once eating this)
- neutral j.:mk: > c.:mk: xx :mk:TK (one of my favorites; does good damage if it hits but maintains pressure if they block it
the knee is safe again) - TU > FADC > Ultra (why not)
c.lp is his fastest move so its the safest option to hit after a knee. after the c.lp, i use c.mp over s.lk for more damage, better pushback, and same speed. s.lk has better range so use it when u suspect c.mp will wiff.
after a knockdown, position urself at m.k tiger knee range and throw one out as theyre getting up. then mix it up with the options listed above. be careful though cause a shoryuken will beat out the knee so you can use it as bait. im not by any means a pro but this shit works for me and i havent seen it mentioned before. definately improved my game outside of zoning and staying away when using sagat.
- Use Sagat’s forward FADC more often since it covers 1.5 the distance as his regular forward dash.
- option select throw with his crossup j.lk or when using c.lk on opp. wakeup
cross-up knee on wake up are the future
write that down kids
I dunno.
It was better in ST/HDR since the knee had less recovery, but I might try messing with it more.
vs chun and abel
Even though this is character specific, and it is not specifically a combo or an advanced mind game tactic, it should be reiterated for the newer players that might read this.
If a player (regardless of character) jumps in at you, and you beat it with a standing round house, your immediate reaction is to throw a fierce fireball because you force your opponent to block, and it pushes them back a little further and does some free chip damage.
Against chun-li and abel, you cannnnnnnot do this. The reason why I mention this is because most of the things we do as sagat players is reaction / muscle memory. You are so accustomed to throwing a high tiger shot after a standing round house anti air that you forget chun and abel can ultra off that for free as their ultras (like most) have invincible start up frames.
Also, most sagats on reaction to a knock down, throw a low meaty tiger shot on opponent wake up so force them into blocking / pushing them back further and doing free chip damage - especially if the opponent has a pixel of health. Again, this does not work against chun and abel as they can wake up ultra right through it.
I consider this important for taking sagat to the next level because even though a situation might be ingrained in muscle memory, you need to be able to distinguish when not to do something considering your prior experiences in that situation. As prior experience shows, don’t do what I just described above 
Good luck - and keep mashing those dp’s. I know I am
Oh yeah, I almost forgot:
First, read the above post:
Then read this:
A good sagat player will always throw a well timed lower tiger shot on opponent wake up in all cases when at a distance (except the ones described above).
A good sagat will always throw a high tiger shot after an anti-air standing house house in all situations (except the ones mentioned above)
Fuck that.
I would rather play the wake up game.
Sagat has good options on an opponent’s wake-up.
good point
I edited my last point to clarify that a wake up fireball should be done on opponent wake up from a distance where it is hard to close the gap in time.
Some of my favorite things to do to someone (mind games - proven in tournaments).
- Grab opponent
- Dash cross screen to opponent, grab again
- Dash cross screen to opponent, TU FADC F. RH ultra
More mind games:
your opponent has little health left and the whole tournament match you have been tu fadc (being blocked) and dashing up for the grab.
Now do this since you’ve conditioned your opponent:
- TU FADC - dash up
- TU again FADC - dash up
- TU again - victory
talk shit by saying in a sarcastic tone with a high vocal inflection “pro player seeetuupppp” after you win
So I been thinking on Sagat’s set-ups and traps and I have seriously overlooked his Tiger knee.
There are ALOT of shenanigans you can do off of this when it’s blocked crouching, because that’s when Sagat gets more + frames on block.
I’ll list some basic options as well as more elaborate set-ups and how they work.
This is all off of blocked knees.
- Blocked TK, standing forward.
This is for opponent’s who just love to stick something out after they block a TK in hopes of stuffing w/e it is you are going to try. Sagat’s s.mk has massive priority though and will stuff damn near any poke that gets thrown out by anyone.
- Blocked TK, walk forward, crouch block
Just a good way to bait a reversal and then punish. Good vs opponents who are quick to mash out those dp’s.
- Blocked TK, walk forward TU (FADC, F+HK, Ultra)
A more aggressive way to punish people who like to stick something out after a blocked knee. This is very rewarding if you have 2 ex stocks and ultra. This way even if the TU is blocked Sagat can dash back to stay safe or dash forward and go for a grab, another TU, or block.
- Blocked TK, c.lp > LTS
A simple block string after the tk to keep pressure on your opponent and push them back out.
- Blocked TK, c.lp, s.lp/s.lk > TK
With this you reset the situation and you can go from there. Remember that fully spaced standing pokes cancelled into tk’s aren’t tight. They can be dped or ducked with low normals that reduce a character’s hurtbox.
- Blocked TK, Focus Attack
With this you can choose to fish for a counter hit, get some frame advantage with a lvl 2 or maybe even try for the unblockable lvl 3. The range on Sagat’s FA is great so the pushback on the TK is not a problem and actually helps Sagat because his opponent will be pushed beyond the range of most pokes in the game, but still within range of his FA.
- Blocked TK, dash forward grab
Just a little trick you can pull out of nowhere occasionally. If you are fighting a cautious opponent or you have conditioned your opponent to continue blocking after a blocked tk, then they won’t expect this and you might land an easy grab.
- Blocked TK, overhead.
Another little mix-up you can nail if you have trained your opponent to block low. Sagat’s overhead has really good range. A little less then his standing short, but only vs crouching opponents. Still this allows Sagat to apply mix-up pressure even when it seems his opponent is at a range where they needn’t fear a mix-up game as much.
- Blocked TK, cross-up j.lk
A nice way to keep the pressure on. After the cross-up you can go for a tick throw or keep pressure on with some low shorts and hit confirm into a TU if they hit.
This is very true, but another huge thing you can do is bait the ultra by shooting your tiger shot a hair sooner. By shooting sooner, they still see it as an opportunity to hit you with their ultra, but by the time they get there you already have recovered in time. And if they dont go for the ultra, you will always get chip damage or the rare occasion hitting them in the back.
I’m really starting to love his close up game, especially off block TK. I like doing the blocked TK and cross-up c.lk. From that, I either continue the bnb or tick throw. After the bnb, my opponent will likely expect me to follow it up with s.lk, TK again, and will prepare to block for it. Then I will use an overhead.
Then I like to start mixing it up with the head games on the opponent’s wake up as PlaygroundLegen talked about. Playing Cammy as my 2nd has really helped me with my mind games and conditioning your opponents to to do a particular thing upon their wake up, and punishing them for it. Walking up the opponent and doing overhead on their wake up is also pretty good. I only usually do this on characters that have bad DP-like reversals.
When both you and your opponent is in the air and you hit them with j.mp, as soon as you land, you can jump forward and cross them up with j.lk. From there, you can continue bnb or tick throw.
When is the best time to do tick throw off the combo j.lk, c.lk, c.lk, c.lp? Is it after j.lk, or 1st c.lk, or the 2nd c.lk?
When doing mind games on your opponent’s wake up and he didn’t use quick get-up, how do you guys approach them while they are still laying on the floor? Do you guys keep dashing forward and touching their body on the floor, keep walking forward and touching their body on the floor, stand just outside their throw range but close enough for crouching long attacks, or constantly step back and forth of their throw range? I’m trying to figure out which would confuse your opponent the most. What are your guy’s opinion on this and which to use in specific situations.
Oh shit.
Thanks for the mix-up of cross-up j.lk after a blocked knee. Good shit.
Gonna add that to my above post.
Yeah, crouching characters extend their hitbox. It’s actually pretty big. Go record ryu c.lping as fast as you can and walk back and forth into it and see how far it reaches, now walk up out of range and then crouch and you’ll get hit. This is pretty useful to know in a footsies game, you can trick people into whiffing unsafe shit by not crouching.
edit: Sagat has an instant overhead with neutral j.mk, you have to be a little farther from the opponent rather than up in their face so that the tip of sagat’s foot hits the opponent in the head as opposed to behind the head. as much damage as c.mk, fucking great finisher as it comes out way faster than sagat’s other overhead, it’s just unsafe is all.
easier conditioning in tournament level play
Why it’s easier to condition your opponent in tournament level play:
Simple, everyone is watching. let’s take for example my mind game about grabbing an opponent, dashing cross screen, grabbing again, dashing cross screen, TU them.
If everyone is watching you play, and they see you get grabbed twice in a row, it’s embarrassing, not only is it embarrassing you worry that your next opponent will see this and try to grab you a lot more than they would have if they didn’t see you getting grab so much in your earlier match. This is why the final TU works so well.
Online, where there is less on the line, you’d be more inclined to block that TU because you think to yourself (he won’t grab me three times in a row). And you’re right. In a tournament atmosphere its more like (I can’t LET HIM grab me three times in a row). see the difference? That’s why the final TU works so well.
Post up your tournament level mind games.
mentioned it on first page but guess noone listens to the newbie. :arazz:
anyways his knee seems to be a great option on wakeup. beats out practically everything cept for shoryukens. if u suspect an srk wakeup then just wait a lil longer before using the knee.
hell it even beats out some wakeup ultras when timed right.
also after doing a link or combo ending with tigershot, walk forward for a split second and then instantly do a m.k tigerknee. beats out practically everything they do afterwards. if they jump in, they get AAd. if they press anything, they get stuffed. if they block, you get a safe tiger knee. if timed properly u can get it to jump over hadoukens as well. :wgrin:
looks really flashy when it happens. work on the timing for it. really easy to react to since forward is already buffered in the motion.
I’m just loving Standing mk. Stuffs so much stuff. Akuma’s roundhouse, Chun’s sweep, even Rog’s jabs when well spaced.
Seriously guys, this move is amazing and helps Sagat out during footsies which is one of his main weaknesses.
You are so right… it’s probably the most underrated normal in his arsenal. I especially love it against jab-happy Boxers… it completely throws the off their game.
It pushes them right to the range of a roundhouse too 