Are you serious?
Training Mode w/ input data and CPU commands, Movelist in game…fuckin Strategy guide!!!
I’ll agree that Capcom needs to add a demonstartion of how combos work in Challange mode, but don’t come here and say Capcom has neglected beginners.
Shortcut commands…:rolleyes:
a good player can totally rape a new player using only normals. I don’t really see a point in having different game modes, that would only make things more confusing.
besides, new players are attracted by those flashy ultras and supers, no one new to the game would EVER play a mode with basically no combos.
I guess if someone is willing to learn, they can also do it the “hard” way, like most of us did at some point
Point is not to give beginners a better chance of beating pros by limiting the pros moves. It is an OPTION to start learning the game at a foundation level. The OPTION of playing medium mode where you can start with BnB combos. The OPTION of playing hard mode where you can worry about EX’s and Super’s before you want to tackle Ultra’s or FA’s. Or if a beginner wants to just dive head first into the highest level of game play then game on.
Most people who pick up the game probably won’t spend more than a few minutes in beginner mode. But they might get some good time spent in medium or hard mode before getting destroyed in expert. Most people other than little kids don’t stay in beginner mode on music games.
Care to explain why you think that a well done tutorial isn’t a good idea?
I dislike the shortcuts btw, I don’t exactly think they help beginners (or anyone for that matter). And even if you stand by your opinion that they do, do you base your point that beginners are not being neglected on that alone?
Few points:
This is an interesting idea. I think that ultimately it would not work, but its an interesting thing to consider.
The players who get chased away by random ass whoopings, they aren’t going to be in for the long haul anyway (probably). You either get the “sickness” or you don’t. I think people play street fighter for an hour and know at the end of that hour, if they are going to give it up, or really PLAY the game.
What we need to help encourage new players to get better, is not some feature in the game, its to build the community. We need to encourage local gatherings, discourage online play, encourage tourneys (more smaller tourneys please!), and foster a more friendly environment for new players.
SRK needs to check its community attitude just a bit. NO whining. Real talk, this place has new members afraid to post, afraid to ask even the good questions, and afraid in general. I didn’t have a problem with that, cause I come from other forums much much worse than this one…but many people post here once or twice and never come back. This needs to change. YES new members are often lazy and stupid about how they post. YES new members can be annoying because they are not used to the SRK culture. YES new members flooding a board that was for a long time sustained SOLELY by the truely hardcore players and enthusiasts is going to feel shitty at first…but this place is THE hub for fighting games, its the #315th most popular forum on the entire fucking internet…so this place should be the start of any change that we are going to see in the community.
Ugh, its something I’ve dealt with in the past, its to the point where when friends were over, we’d play Worms or soemthing…eventually I’d coax them into Power Stone 2 or whatever it was called…though that would be short lived…I’d pick Pete and its over. I don’t think there is a real solution to the problem. If you screw with the handicaps the better player often has to ‘over compensate’ and it goes from what should be a semi-close fight to the better playing going all out and getting damn enar a perfect. We’ve all played on a MvC2 machine at some point that had dmg set to max…and the pressure is so for lack of bettter term…intense…that you go balls to the wall and crush that little kid playing as wolverine/ryu/hulk. Lets see what else has been done to try and balance the game…oh yeah…
CPU assistance…
Hell pipin’ naw. I stopped playing my Wii out of frustration that lamost every game on the system is full of that BS. Its like the skill lies in not being the best, but third best, and coming from behind at the end to win at almost any Wii game. It might be doable from a dmg perspective in a fighting game, but as a Gief player, I’ve had those matches where I’m fighting someone who’s better than me, but I crack their defense early and beat the snot out of them for like 90% health before they get away. the player is better than me and I admit it…but CPU assistance would kick in and he’d nail me with a FATAL ultra or something 
As others have said, trying to base it off unlockable moves won’t work either as the more experienced players actually USE those normals more. Scrub Ryu? hadoken 12x in a row followed by hurricane kick or whatever…no normals…ever, unless its from mis-stepped execution. Gief? I’ll normal your ass to death…don’t need specials.
Its an unfortunate situation. You can pick a character you don’t know well, but even then your experience FIGHTING against that character usually trumpes your friends skill ‘usually’ (pulls out Shuma/Bison/Felecia MvC2 team and asks who wants a piece ) and even still…its just not fun.
I admire the idea and what your after, I jus don’t see a possible way to work it.
Now what might work in the LONG RUN, and I’m very irritated that this hasn’t been done since DLC has become a norm. AI updates. the computer ‘knows’ some basic comboes. As the computer difficulty increases, it just seems to ‘read your moves’ more than actually improve. Why not scale up the computer’s knowledge of comboes and abusive options. If you fight against Rufus and lose to his c.mp on jump-in enough, you’ll learn its the proper counter (not a Rufus player just an example don’t crucify). Or even still? Expand the training mode to situational…for instance
Current setup - Challenge mode - Combos/links
Idea setup:
Challenge Mode - Combos
Challenge Mode - Block Strings
Challenge Mode - Character Specific Defense (You pick say Cammy, and have to land reversal cannon spike on 3 different attacks, cannon drill on 3 different attacks, etc etc against each of the 20+ characters)
Challenge Mode - Offensive time Trial (pick your character and have X amount of time to do Y amount of hits on defensively peaked gouken/shoto, so your avoiding FB spam and DPs)
It would require a ton of work to set it all up and a ton of time to actually go thru it with your character but think of the pros. You learn all the comboes/links/cancels, you learn what block strings are safe or not, you learn how to defend and how to approach offensively against each character. Of course the game will evovle past those basics and many of us can breeze thru somethign like that, but it would take someone without the same level of experience a little mroe time and help teach them thigns to do and not to do.
shrug
But dammit I want the computer to upgrade its AI based on wha the norm is these days. Why isn’t Viper at least doing the EX Seismo combos :sad:
I think you read my post wrong…
I base it on the fact that Capcom put training mode w/ ability to show input data to the player. Challenge mode, which I do believe is for those who want to test their excecution, and get rewarded for it (that’s where I suggested that there should be a demonstration clip for each challenge, like in Tekken 5).
Oh, and let’s not forget the Prrima Official strategy guide book that’s out there…and the guides here on SRK and all over gaming sites.
Yeah…I don’t think Capcom neglected beginners.
IMO, a player shouldn’t need to hunt for a comprehensive guide somewhere on the internet (Or pay money for it) before they can even play the game properly. Most newer players don’t know the benefit of reading input data or testing combos or blockstrings, etc. Basic strategies we take for granted are things they’d never figure out if left to their own devices.
People are noobs, and sadly, Capcom still needs to cater to noobs if they want to get anywhere with the fighting genre in the future.
Or why can i walk up throw on wakeup and get her 4 or 5 times before she starts teching them? Or why does cammy do nothing except random drills or that slow ass spinning backfist move if you’re just crouch blocking all the time?
Seriously, the AI is really stupid in this game, every character has a move they will fall for EVERY time.
I think an idea like this would work better as a single player endeavor. The tutorial would run through arcade mode, but handicapped at certain levels, ie limiting the player to only normals, etc.
Each round would begin with a brief text or video explaining your character’s strengths and weaknesses in regards to their normals (or specials, ultras, whatever level of the tutorial you’re on). When you finally arrive at Seth it’s a normal arcade battle with everything unlocked so you can “pull it all together” so to speak.
I dunno, it’s a neat idea, but I think it can be achieved using the trial mode that’s already in place but with some helpful text hints to guide you through.
I would buy that game so hard.
this is actually a REALLY good idea… better ai trumps all though… 
-dime
Hahaha. If you get the links spot-on, you do extra damage, whereas if you miss time them by a bit, the damage is reduced.
I like your suggestion, OP. It sounds weird, but makes sense. Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s going to help people either have fun with the game or get better. The best way to go about helping new players would be to have a whole section of the game dedicated to teaching players about the more in-depth parts of the game, with lots of polish.
Also, on the topic of music games, overcoming a song’s difficulty is part of the fun.
It sounds like you are confusing a beginner with a 5 year old. I mean you enjoyed finally getting a win by spamming normals when you were 5, not when you just started playing.
I’m actually working on making a game like that. I’ll post up more details here on SRK when it gets further along.
This is where I disagree with you, I don’t think what you are proposing does this.
Hypothetically, if Joe Blow wanted to learn to play SFIV and wanted to learn the fundamentals first. Maybe, possibly, it might make sense to tell him to start fighting with just normals and to learn the use of all of them.
Once he understands their range and speed, and consequently grasps a little of the footsies game, then we tell him how to use specials and he can begin working that into his game.
Maybe this is a good idea.
But that’s not what you’re proposing. You’re proposing Joe Blow learn his normals while playing against competition that is similarly limited. So he learns tactics that work against gimped competition. He doesn’t learn how to fight with normals, he learns how to fight normals with normals. Big difference because once he graduates, half of what he learned goes down the chute.
Now, the intermediate level has some promise. Ultras for the most part aren’t really needed. Focuses are a different story, but no need to get into that. Having players learn without ultras might be useful just because it makes the game less punishing.
But the same problem exists, and you just hit on it. Ryu vs Chun Li is going to learn a really bad habit if he trains on intermediate mode. Blanka vs Akuma. Anyone vs Sagat.
It’s not as bad of a problem because ultras have a disproportionate effect on gameplay (highly punishing) and are relatively easy to learn about because there are generally only a few things you need to know about them.
Edit: Didn’t want to bump the thread but wanted to respond to the post below.
Not sure where the #315 number comes from, but Alexa says SRK is the 33rd most popular site in the Cayman islands.
lol where does this number come from?