Tactical Balance in Fighting Game - with videos!

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
81

I don’t know why you made this a KOF thread. I see no CVS2 players bitching about the Bison’s low risk scissor kick leading to massive PTF damage, or complaining about the Roll Cancel critic I made. Looks like they are happy and complete, while others looks like hurt females. Do you know, when you hit their hearts in some way you just don’t understand (“why, are you hurt because I didn’t say you are beautiful today?”) and they cry a lot until you give up, hug, care and kiss her a lot?

It is a good point, but this doesn’t put the guy on a top tier class.

Nightmare: Shiranui also thinks the guys on the video sucks.

And nobody is making fun on me, I feel ashamed everytime you appear, because you bring hate and nonsense words, calling other retards and telling them to grow, like they weren’t, even though you sleep with your mom in the same room. Does she lives with you or you live with her? Anyway, I don’t care, don’t answer. You should just grow up, leave your parents house, got a job and then maybe you could tell others to grow. Just think about that. That is the only shame I have,compatriots messing everything up everytime they appear, swearing, nonsense blabbering, people that don’t work, live with their parents and are so addicted to games that come late to their jobs, got fired, and, then, whithout anything to to, they wander trough forums finding and creating flames to prove themselves they are big and important because they beat someone at kof98, as if it were life, as if it were so important, more important than work, get a life, leave mama skirt, find a wife, feed…

So I feel ashamed by you, not by what you say, but by what you are.

And I already blocked you at MSN, avoid you at forums, oh, you are banned in them all except by your own forum… forgot that, so I do not have that extra work, hundreds of people with whom you already had nonsense flames made you got banned, then you had to create your own forum, so you can’t be banned.

You are just not banned here because Shoryuken is to big to notice an ant like you.

Because of that, I have only one way to avoid seeing you, again, I have no business with criminals (TranceJay) and game addicted vagabonds (you).

That is the best I can do, even for your sake.

You are added as a foe and I blocked your all your messages.

82

This is probably true.

Because I already debunked this one…

I didn’t say that made him top class, but it is something people who are not top class, lack. He is very top class.

Speaking of which, there are far too many mexicans and south americans with far too much pride for themselves and their country, that they criticize other players, even ones that are clearly better than them. Too many delusionals.

He didn’t do anything that warrants a ban on here.

Calling people criminals or game addicts doesn’t really help argue your initial point. Those are ad-hominem attacks.

83

You definitely know what you’re talking about. :rolleyes:

I’m not guessing. I played both, azis and Emil. Emil is far far far far far much better than azis. Wich part you did not understand?

Tell that to azis, who’s love to preach lies. I just posted that Monge’s words because he said Monge was supporting him, wich is not true.

Cry moar! :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol:

Seriously, you are too funny azis! Plz entertain me moar! :rofl:

84

QFT

Asides from that, nobody cares what monge or whoever has to say. And no, you can’t get KoF at Evo, even though I really like it.

Yo south americans take your flame baits back to wherever you came from. And get off your mom’s bedrooms.

Can we get a lock in here?

Late Edit: I will not feed the troll anymore. No point in arguing against someone who sleeps with mommy, thinks KoF2k2 is a big tourney game or thinks this thread is da bomb. If I keep this conversation with the kid who is 11, I may end up in prison.

85

Dude are you butthurt too? How can u say nobody is interested in this or that? If YOU arent interested, just dont even reply to the thread. But I see you are really interested, cause you keep replying. And oh yeah, EVO is the only tourney of the world, sorry :rolleyes:.

86

Uh…? What? Are you trying to say something? Say it louder, I can’t hear you!

AHUEHAUHUAEHUA!

87

nice thread
really
but a bit ambitious
my only hope this thread will stay idiot-free lol

tactical balance and tiers can be different matters

the first analysis that come in my mind is WHY tactic1 is more effective against tactic2
and the following words are ‘overpowered’ and ‘brokennes’

example:
fireballer against grappler

2 different game approaches but each one ‘can’ overcome and win the matchup

fireballer’s interest is to keep grappler at bay and from the other side a grappler must stay close to land direct damage

but why fireballer RAPE grappler (or viceversa?)
too little recovery between fireballs? (too slow?)
too quick, in terms of frames or invincibility, antiair?(too slow and open to retaliations?)

in this basic analysis there’s the meaning of balance

in a balanced game a grappler can jump over mistimed fireballs
in a poorly balanced game a grappler can expect/bait/react to fireball in time but still unable to counter (due to that DP or recovery)

as 2k2 as an example you can clearly see that athena is near brokennes and so unbalance the game with stupid, simple but heavily effective tactical approach

imho it’s really difficult to talk about tactical balance
just because each possible tactic win within its own condition

if your character is a zoner you’re supposed to win using that particular approach
and it’s your goal to find the best way to find strings and make your opponent suffer your game

like emil already said
you don’t know a lot about medium/high kof gameplay level
blind jumpin are easily countered by safe antiairs or basic pokes ON REACTION
so no point in saying that jumping all the day is godlike as you stated

btw kof is more of a rushdown based if compared to other games so really no problem with air to ground game

your points are good
but i think that most of the obvious unbalances in fighting games are due to bad programming/testing

obviously proper testing will require a lot of year before a release so it’s not possibile to open a woldwide beta test then game release

BUT there are OBVIOUS evidences that a move or a pattern of a specific character is potentially broken

i mean,
if 90% of the roster’s attack have (5,3,4) as frame data for strong attacks and there’s a character that have a comboable (2,2,1) close C
it’s so difficult to understand that CAN easily overcome everyone else?
or if a command is (3,2,3,3) with +6 FA you can easily rush that shit fearing nothing?

things like those added to other options such as great stock building ability, invincibility on a lot of specials and great damage allow a top tier to become broken

that could and should be avoided but our hopes are only in the hands of game programmers

88

Btw, I just watched this guy play against multiple people and he’s a really bad player, mentally and execution-wise…I can’t imagine losing a single match ever to him, and the Kusanagi player in the video would ocv him every time without question. Clearly this is a case of a proud deluded player hating.

About this though…the one fighting against Athena does not necessarily need to punish the fireballs…he just needs to keep advancing, which is not much of an issue. Once she is near the corner, she is in a lot of trouble and the opponent never really had to put themselves in a risky situation to get her in trouble.

89

Yeah, I heard you beat Nightmare other day and you told it were easy, so you may possibly be right, but, for instance, Nightmare was never the kind of guy who ever won something.

To clarify, in case of doubts, some guys were also discussing with me by PM:

Kof is not unbalanced, that “tactical balance” section and the “tactical unbalance” was definitions for this work, not general definitions.

Some thought that I was telling kof was unballanced. It is not that, there is imbalance between available options INSIDE the game, that is why it is repetitive, because one option overcome others. Plus, I selected simple features available to all characters, so I simply avoided grapplers vs firaballers issues because it is more complex.

90

I was referring to shiranui, not Nightmare. Yeah I beat Nightmare but that’s not really relevant to the discussion.

91

Neither ability, so, Shiranui, Monge and many others kof players opinions is respectful, don’t know why you called “I can’t imagine losing a single match ever to him, and the Kusanagi player in the video would ocv him every time without question”, which are just your assumptions without any basis besides what you think.

92

What do you mean an assumption? It’s an evaluation of the gameplay of the players. Of course there is a basis. I mentioned it because someone of his skill saying that those pros in the videos suck, was rediculous. Even worse, they didn’t even bother to explain how, and they didn’t mention how the poking style displayed there, wasn’t good (and this Shiranui guy seems to know nothing about poking from the matches I saw).

Edit: This thread is useless now, get another game to pick on because kof failed.

93

He will continue to pursue you!!!

Best. Post. Ever.:lovin:

94

Lol, wanna play a first to 10?

95

Well, that challenge would be the only interesting thing to come out from this thread.

96

Thanks on the Info @ thread starter!. I’m Creating my own fighing game as we speak, drawing up the first character.

I got a Q, Is it stupid to use MUGEN? its the only one i actually know how to create on.

EDIT: Is it stupid to make the main character top tier? Or should he automatically be Mid-tier like most games?

97

From what I’ve read here, I’d say both Emil and Nightmare are pretty even in life. I know both live with their moms and also they lik… Oh, they meant a KoF challenge.

Two non asian online players battling out in KoF 2k2 to see who sucks less. That’s gotta be the most exciting MM ever! Next we’re getting UFC Ricky Ortiz vs Jamie Austin. They can’t beat the sissiest MM bet ever though. Wanna play a first to 10? Show me the money, Maguire, show us the money!!!

And WTF at the post above mine. Is this guy serious?

BTW, when is the next big 2k2 tourney going to happen? Will you onliners be there?

98

^^^^what…

EDIT: I thought this is what the thread was about. Game balancing aka making a good fighting game.

99

Excuse me, who the fuck are you? Do you know shit about my personal life? What the fuck all that shit “lives with his mom” has to do with anything in this thread or gaming forums? But since you, azis and all that retards are really interested in other people’s personal life, I’ll tell you. Yeah, my 70 years old mom lives with me. Do you have anything to do with that? Do you ever pay my bills? Do I even fuckin know you?

What amazes me is all that retards (like you included) who cant find a way to attack ppl so they put ppl’s personal life in the way. You dont have balls to try to attack me by beating me in any game? Do you suck in all of them? If you have any kind of butthurt against me, keep that in games. I hope you dont have an old and sick mom, or if you do, I hope you dont send her to an asylum, remember what she did for you. If you want to know more about my personal life I can send you a PM with all the details about my life so you can try to attack me more, since its all what you and those guys can do instead of beat me in my games. :wink:

Don’t compare me with fort. If by online player you mean ppl who plays only online, no, I’m not fort. I attend in many offline tourneys here, in diff games. I even organize some of them. I used to go in many arcade centers with dozens of good players that never attend to tourneys, and thats one of the reasons I dont think that tourneys is a thing to determine if you are good or no. Not everyone can attend a tourney and not everyone care for fame, money or stupid status. I think all those SBO monsters are all rich mofos who dont need to worry about money. Many ppl would need to quit their jobs to simply attend a tourney, that’s why ppl make first to X matches. But if you are really interested in KOF tourneys, check these links:

http://kingoffighters.planets.gamespy.com/es/?page_id=63
http://supervsbattle.com
http://www.cyberfanatix.com/list.php?c=Tournaments
http://8.pro.tok2.com/~asanoc/nikkan/result.html
http://www.kofia.info/dna/viewtopic.php?t=329
http://homepage3.nifty.com/kofjustice/result.htm
http://asanoc.dee.cc/dna3/jp/result.php?color=gray

But I dont know why I’m talking with you, seriously. Nah, I don’t know why I’m even replying to this thread, since its purpose failed. azis, find another game to expose your retard points and entertain us more please.

100

I can’t get what is going on, but any challenge could be taken by PM. Not here.