I found a new crossup dive setup and given their growing number decided to move them all to a new section under gimmicks where they can be given a more detailed explanation.
In regards to the combo section, would it be more in the spirit of the guide to maintain a concise list of only the most practical combos or should we aim to give a broader view of what hawk is capable of executing? I was unsure as to whether I should include 3 bar monstrosities and the like.
I think it would be best to have a quick reference list of which srk to end combos with vs each character instead of having the information spread throughout the entire length of the matchup section. I can gather the necessary data later but may need someone else to implement it as I’ve no knowledge of formatting documents.
Sounds good to me; I generally don’t use them so I’ll leave that up to one of you guys.
Well, concise would be different to everyone, so feel free to add larger, more impractical combos. If anything, the section should be reformatted a little to account for combos costing different amounts of meter and such. I can do that later in the week. Might as well contain 3 bar combos; they’re impractical but you never know. They could score someone an important W regardless.
That’s fine, but in my opinion I’d like to keep in each matchup section as well for quick reference for someone that only needs to know what to do against a certain character or two.
Im going to add some more from my “bible” eventually just have not gotten around to copy it.
I am in the process of adding a “Character Occupancy” article which bascilly says how many blocks each chracter can cover on a average… I only have 3 characters done…its really hard to do
I think this is a really bad idea. The whole point of a matchup rating is that it’s objective and assumes the players are of equal skill. When player skill is brought into account surely the best case scenario is 10/0? Your rating based on how difficult you personally find the matchups vs other players and at that point it becomes a rating of ‘joe lewis vs’ instead of ‘thawk vs’ as evidenced by how off some of the ratings were. (sagat = even??)
I’d strongly urge that we move back to the traditional format which is good enough for every other character board on the forum.
The high and lows of datas are a collection of match ups not only played by me but on multiple outlets. So if you want to do what I did, and find every possible T.Hawk match and record the wins and losses and watch them completely straight through, which I did and am still doing everyday, be my guest- I hate doing it.
Are they matches that I watched on FADC, SRK , and XBox? Yes
Does that make it biased toward PSN, PC players? Yes absolutly
So by all means. I will mail you my notebook of matches, player names, wins losses, and ratios and then you can do it and post it on SRK. If you want to be specific as of right now:
Hawk (4.978) Sagat (5.022)
The trend is that Sagat wins 4 straight, if they were placed 10 in a row.
Tomorrow it may be different. Actually, it will be different.
So like I said if you want to do this, do it. I will send you all of my data from up to Tuesday since I have not been able to do it from school.
Im not trying to insult you by any means by trying to “prove you wrong” or anything of that sort. I hate collecting matchup data, I hate watching matches but, I do it because I want to know as much as I possibly can.
If you have the match up as 5-5 I think the main thing it suggests is that your method for gathering data is flawed and that most online sagats are horrible. It’s easily one of hawk’s worst match ups.
This is not the proper place for this; It actually is not as bad as you think. Its a hard 5-5 Ill post it in the matchup thread since its more cannon to put it there.
Upon rereading through the “guide” I wanted to address a few things that other people have submitted at reassurance.
SPD vs Reversal DP:
If you short cut a DP in a situation where it would reversal SPD comes out. It only happens if you do a short cut DP which is hitting both corners back and fourth. I wish I knew how to do input pictures in a post… Just basiclly dont do it as a buffer… The game is already reading your current position; Which is back or downback. Its weird. Damdai confirmed this with me at Guard Crush about a month ago. Whoever posted that just did not explain it properly.
Unblockable Sweep?
This is weird because it does work but it does not work 100% of the time. It honestly makes no sense to me and nor were the people I was testing it with… I think this could be ommited until we can be 100% sure that this does in fact work. I dont know why in some situations the opponant cant block it. The only thing I could figure out is that by the time thawk activates the move your opponant is too late to block it one the animation starts. That is the only logical thing I could think of… If people could please look into this but I dont even know the properties.
Shoulder Drop
What is in red is true. What I found works really well is if you recognize that your opponent is in block state. But it is true that your opponent can hit you out of it if you do it too early.
EX SPD on rose block strings.
Aquasilk told me this works with Zangeif so I am not too sure if the same can be applied to T.Hawk? I will assume you have to be really quick.
The unblockable sweep and spd on reversal are two things im curious as to what people can find out about this. Ive known about the buffer system being stupid and unblockable sweep?
I don’t understand what you mean by this. Could you please explain in more detail? Because it sounds like an execution error to me.
You can insert directional arrows by clicking the smiley face at the top of the post form or by surrounding it’s abbreviation with colons (d, db, f, uf, etc.)
Ill give you an example ; I need my camera though. It sounds like an execution error but whats weird is that Up was never implied in the input.
It looks like this: :db::d::df::f::df: :f::lp::mp:
This read as EX360 in reversal. I did not do anything implying up before or after… I asked damdai about it and he told me its because the buffer system is stupid. Im not too sure, other players I know who play different characters complain about this too especially seth players.
Weird. I have really good stick control and have never experienced this phenomenon. Sanwa sticks are so loose and sensitive that it would be easy to accidentally get an :uf: at the end there. You’d be surprised at how many sloppy inputs they can throw out if you’re not careful. I’m sure you could overcome it by improving your execution or addressing your choice of inputs.
The shortcut looks like it has lots of unnecessary inputs that you could cut down. There shouldn’t be any need for :f: because :df::df::lp::mp: is the only part you actually need to input to trigger a DP. If your style is to roll the stick around like that :db::d::df::d::df::lp::mp: would be a lot safer. Personally I’d just :f::d::df: or :db::d::df::d::df: if I was in a crouch position.
Yeah I dunno it may be the way my stick is configued I dont know. I have the same problem on Arcade too and that you cant even see inputs. It does not happen alot but its enough to make wonder… I really wish I had my camera and my xbox up at school =/
Alright guys, I’m finally going to have a break from school so I plan on updating the guide as much as possible in the upcoming weekend. Keep hope alive.
Also, I submitted a shirt design for my local scene and am way behind in votes at the moment. I’d really appreciate it if any of you could vote for “Design 1”. Thank you very much if you do; I really need the new stick they’re offering as a pirze because my Hori crapped out.
Also, whoever has been editing in the red text; Thanks for interjecting all of your wisdom as sloppily and brashly as possible instead of just amending the current text. I look forward to cleaning this up.
Edit: Though I genuinely do appreciate new/more accurate information, but please be a little more elegant in the future. Also, please keep disagreements out of the guide and instead discuss here on the forums. Thank you very much.
Hello! i love this idea. I have officially broken my silence and come out of the shadows from lurking SRK for so long, making my first post. i added a little info about chun and vipers matchup and also i wrote in red about a disagreement on the Gen matchup. Then i read your post Bonesaw! haha. I have removed it and i will paste it below. will edit it a bit later when i am not so busy as it was written in a rush. What i have written seems best put here anyways for others to voice their opinions and experiences on it.
"I disagree with this matchup being in hawks favour by so far. After playing against and talking to some strong tournament gens, their playstyle varies greatly against those fought online. a good gen will take a defensive position and not jump. Gens dragon kick will beat out any of hawks jump in and he can stay at a safe distance using MK or MP into hands. My original thought was to use U2 against Gen, seemed only logical. i soon changed my mind. U1 in my opinion for this matchup, once you get in you will want that damage!"
Sorry for the mishmash wall of text, typing in a rush! I’ll be sure to have a proper look through the document at some point and add more info wherever i can
Alright so I thoroughly disagree with Sakura being in Hawks favor. That is a very tough matchup. The match breaks down into a few parts mainly: Sakura at full screen chucking plasma, midscreen with fireballs and footsies, and in your face with tatsu and stand jab pressure. At fullscreen the only thing Hawk do is bulldog or focus for some Ultra. Any and all jumps can and most likely will be Shuouken’d. If you absolutely read a fireball you CD through it but I DO NOT recommend that. If and when you bulldog your way in to mid-range your footsie game is very limited. Since Hawk’s pokes have alot of recovery she can easily whiff punish you with cr. mkxxshuouken. Your best buttons at this range are going to be st. jab, st, lk, st, mk, and cr. mk as pretty much every other button is low profiled for free. DO NOT use st. hk, that is FREE damage for her. This is a range that you can jump however and you must make the most of that opportunity. Try to see how they like to AA or A2A. If they like to AA cr. hp empty jump punish, if they like to preemptive A2A use j. lp, j, mp, or shoulder. Make the most of this range because this is where you will get your damage. Close range is really all about who has the initiative. Reversal EX 360 is a bad idea in this matchup, it loses to tatsu and you are going to eat a shitton of damage for it. This range you also really need your meter for EX DP as her jump-in buttons are silly. In close you really just have to be patient and either let them push themself out and be on the lookout for anything punishable. I cannot stress enough for you the Hawk to not get impatient…she can and will kill you very quickly.
Sorry for the wall of text. If anybody has questions or has answers to some of the issues in this matchup that I stated please, I will be more than glad to discuss it.
I agree that she can kill quickly, but I think it’s 6-4 Hawk, maybe 5-5. She can do long combos that do a shit ton of damage and it’s easy for her to make people guess. I say 6-4 because I played against a guy named Grant down at Don’s arcade for about 30 games and it was 6-4. He’s good IMO, knows a lot of her combos and doesn’t drop them very often.
The combos are not really the issue. She can keep Hawk out indefinitely. Maybe it is because i’m playing with one of the best Sakuras in the nation but it just seems to be a losing battle
:db::d::df::f::df: :f::lp::mp: