lol MY secrets! xD j/k… Thrust Peak (df. lp) can be used as a quick anti air for opponents directly above your head. It doesn’t seem to have many or no start up frames at all.
Thanks for posting damage values guys. It sucks to hear that 720 was nerfed from 600 to 510, the damage reduction is starting to make Raging Slash look more attractive, I’ll definitely start using it more. If an opponent is jumping toward you, you can do the Ultra really late and still have it connect. Like I mentioned before, the timing is far stricter for opponents who jump away, you have to hit them at the peak of their jump or earlier.
I would get more counter hits with this normal than any other. People instinctively block after having their move stuffed, because they know they’re now at a huge frame disadvantage. That brief moment of hesitation gives you more than enough time to buffer 720. :wgrin:
This excites me to no end. sneaky buffers are what makes grapplers so hilarious and fun. I cannot wait to play T.Hawk (though sadly I seem to be the only person around who doesn’t have it yet). No one has found a way to combo Raging Slash yet, correct? It’s still strictly an AA/jump away punish?
No combos for it yet, but it’s the Ultra I use. I have found very little need to ex anything, so Super is often available to me. I like having the options.
I can imagine that being a very frightening round for the opponent if you have ultra II and super. they can’t jump in (neutral jump punish and run away tatsu as well???) or else they eat ultra, they can’t let you in or else they eat 720 super buffered off of whatever–and the damage is only a 20 point difference between the two. Hawk could be very scary to a good portion of the cast.
Are those numbers for Condor spire right in the frame data? they cant be. And if they are, its for absolutely point blank condor spire. If you space it right, its nearly unpunishable.
As much as I love frame data, you just identified its biggest problem; even the smallest changes in positioning will drastically change the numbers. The link doesn’t work for me, but yeah, I’m sure the numbers listed are for point blank Condor Spire. In vanilla SF4, Sagat’s Tiger Knee is listed as -7 on block and we definitely know that’s not true. :razz: If I had to guess, I’d say a spaced LP Condor Spire is -1 on block.
I like to use frame data for learning the length of a particular move’s start up animation. Seeing which moves are active the longest can be useful when you’re determining what to use for meaties. When it comes to advantage/disadvantage on block, I take the numbers with a grain of salt for the reason I mentioned above.
finally got a chance to play against someone and I was disappointed with ultra 2. it has a real weird hit range. I think capcom did this to make sure you couldn’t combo into it from spire or DP but there was times when it should have hit. Like I would knock them down and predict they would jump and it would miss because they jumped back instead of a neutral jump. that’s some ol bullshiz right there. If I make them jump that should be enough criteria to make it land. I shouldn’t have to worry about them jumping back. seems like capcom put a lot of effort to hamstring t. hawk enough that he plays exactly how capcom wants him to. one interesting thing I got some mixed results with was air to air j.jab to dive. Sometimes I would be able to land early enough to typhoon them on their landing so that might be a good mixup opportunity. I’d have to test it out more to see if it’s actually viable but it probably isn’t since all the interesting things I’ve tried to do with t. hawk have not worked. It’s like for every interesting thing capcom could have given him they just decided to give him 50 more health instead. it’s not necessarily a bad thing cause I still had fun playing him but it’s like, is this all there is for him?
Well, i just played again last night. Seems the only combo worth mentioning is his last trial…
[standing(LP)] , [standing(MP)] , [EX Condor Spire] , [EX DP] , [EX Condor Dive].
I’ve also noticed he has a [down(MP)] while jumping either forward or back but i haven’t found what its good for yet… and I’m really pissed off about how the Condor Spire doesn’t have the shortcut command that the DP does…
down mp is garbage and only hits if they jump
cr.fp is godlike anti crossup and anti air if theyre on top of you
ex dp gets you out of a LOT of situations
after jab 360, you get the most ambiguous crossup ive ever seen (splash). i dont even know how to control it, its so random. it like has to do with so many factors. i believe the character, whether you move or not, and when you press d.fp all effect whether it crosses up or not. pretty much everyone i played with tonight (a whole FUCK load of different characters) got hit by it a handful of times. its very free. after the splash, you can see if it hits and do st.lp cl.mp xx ex spire. or if they block, go into a block string.
i was doing a lot of crossup splash cr jab x N option select cr.rh , wait, 360. very dirty. not only does cr.rh break focus, it catches back dashes. it loses to jumps though it seems.
also, crossup condor spire after jab 360 seems kind of random. you obviously HAVE to do fp condor spire if you want to crossup ever but again, im pretty sure character, whether you move or not, and timing of fp condor spire all decide whether you crossup or not. i was doing some ghetto shit like, fp condor spire so that it lands on top of them, and then just mash a dp. either you get another ex condor spire, or you get an ex dp which you can mash into ex dive which makes it safe. obviously ex condor spire isnt safe point blank but itsa gimmick and it can and will wokr.
honda is his worst matchup next to blank im predicting. dudley wasnt that bad and sagat is sagat. predict fireballs and neutral jump alot. also st.rh
Speaking of EX Spire, is it only possible to link the EX DP in the corner? or can it be done midscreen as well?
And is EX DP the only thing you can link from any type of Spire? Say they jump and you somehow tag them out of the air with Spire, any other followups?
Guile and Gouken have felt like the worst so far, simply just a matter of it being incredibly hard to get close.
Double post
I was playing T. Hawk earlier vs a few friends. Nothing serious though so take this for whats it’s worth.
-Instant Hawk Dives were pretty good vs whiffed attacks with long recovery
-Spire worked better than Tomahawk as an AA for me. Tomahawk worked a few times to catch jump backs.
-Meter is plentiful. I would EX Spire if anything. Otherwise I was sitting on a Super.
-Ballin normals. cr HP was hitting everything and it’s pretty quick. I was using it as an anti air. st. HK hits people jumping you probably wouldn’t reach with a Tomahawk.
-I was using U2. I wish it comboed off of EX Spire in any way. It doesn’t seem to hit grounded opponents at all, no matter if they have limb up, out or really tall.
Fun character to use.
Was mucking around with j.jab >dive crossup after a lp typhoon, and I’m finding j.jab has a very strange hitbox. o.O Seems to hit if they stand and block either direction, but (with the crossup timing) it won’t hit crouching, or people using focus attack…that being said, lp typhoon > crossup j.jab +dive OS 360 seems to be pretty solid, beats blocking, crouching, backdashing, forward dashing, most srks (haven’t tested that many tbh) will whiff behind you…weird thing is jumping beats it. >.<
One way to confirm and combo Tomahawk from a cross up splash aside from EX (unless you can confirm from the splash, which is fine too)
Cross up > cl.mp > far lp xx lp Tomahawk
cl.mp forces stand. very very confirmable. Some characters you can get away with mp Tomahawk due to their hitboxes(like Chun). hp Tomahawk works on Sagat as well.
EDIT: The above seems to be too inconsistent against a wide amount of characters. You’re probably better off confirming from the splash itself.
For some reason when some opponents are crouching, they seem to be too far for a cl.mp after a splash(or any close up move for that matter.) However, after the splash, you can actually walk up a teeny tiny bit to get in a cl.mp. The timing isn’t too strict, but after that, you cannot link far lp into Tomahawk. The best option seems to be to link into another far mp unless you can confirm the cl. mp into a Tomahawk.
Also it seems like his most damaging combo with no meter is cl.mp > cl.mp xx lp/mp/hp Tomahawk. Depending on the character, you may have to use lp Tomahawk in order to connect, as mp Tomahawk will miss. So far, it seems Cody you must use lp Tomahawk. On other characters, you can throw in hp Tomahawk, like against Sagat.
CAn you explain how to do the option select?
After splash, hit cr.jab and then roundhouse and cr.jab again. You want to make sure that you hit RH slightly after you hit the first jab. Its kind of hard to explain but if youve ever done any option select with gief, its the same principal.
Can you explain how the OS cr.jab/sweep beats focus attacks? I was under the impression that the first cr.jab would have hitstop from hitting their model and therefore another cr.jab would come out and not the cr.rh?
Probably because c.rh hits twice?