I got a chance to try out T. Hawk today, he’s extremely fun to play, way more so than Zangief. Here are some things I noticed, both good and bad. I highlighted #2 because I feel like it’s the most important:
To answer UltraDavid’s question, any jab xx Spire as a block string isn’t great against good players, it’s not that hard to react to and punish; EX Spire works a lot better here.
That being said, I got a lot of mileage out of LP/EX Condor Spire has a pressure/mix up tool anyway. I’m hesitant to call it a great move though, we’ll have to see how it stands the test of time, but I still really like it. Your opponent’s strongest escape option in this mix up is to backdash, seeing as it causes SPD and DP to whiff. A friend of mine suggested that the safest way to deal with backdashing is with a cr. jab/option select sweep, just like Ryu. I haven’t had a lot of time to test this, but I’ll be practicing it a lot.
His normal DPs are hilariously bad, probably amongst the worst in the game. Their horizontal range is piss poor, forget about scooping pokes off the floor like Sagat can. I was counter hit by jump ins, I was swept out of start up; hell, I was fucking thrown out of start up. It was just a mess. EX DP is a little better. It beats a lot of normal DPs too, which is pretty good. The juggle into EX Dive deals some hefty damage.
I was actually have a lot of success with using Spire as an anti-air, even normal Spire! It beats jumps pretty cleanly and juggles into EX DP. You have to time it early, but it’s still good.
His pokes are godlike. My favourite poke by far is cr. forward. It looks like it recovers faster than Ryu’s cr. forward, and it’s just killer in footsies. St. fierce is a close second, seeing as it’s damaging and fast. St. forward has excellent range and insane speed and st. strong has excellent range and high priority. His jabs feel slower than Gief’s, but they’re still good. St. roundhouse comes out quickly, has disgusting range and hits hard. However it whiffs on most crouching opponents and is pure focus bait.
Thrust Peak (d/f + LP) is secretly good. It actually looks way faster than his other jabs; I’d go as far as to say that it’s his fastest normal. It allows for an easy buffer into 720 and you can cancel it into jab DP from a good distance away. It’s just annoying to have it come out during jab strings when you don’t want it to. Speaking of which, EX Spire and EX DP overlap a lot, which pissed me off and cost me games.
To answer UltraDavid’s question, a properly spaced Hawk Dive has a fantastic hitbox. It straight counter hits everything, beating a lot of anti-airs including DPs. A very important thing I found was that the closer you are to hitting your opponent in the head, the more likely it is for you to beat anything they throw out. And I mean anything. I empty jumped on my friend’s Sagat and he reacted with an anti-air Tiger Destruction. I figured what the hell, I might as well Hawk Dive and it traded. I was shocked, I’ve never seen that Ultra lose before. But if your opponent is spaced properly, it’ll lose for free. Sim’s b + RH beats it clean. As such I would condition my friend to expect it every time I jumped, so I whiffed a Hawk Dive in front of him and caught his b+RH with a 720.
Another thing worth figuring out is exactly how low to the ground you can perform a Hawk Dive.
Sorry for the long response, I hope this is useful for anyone. I won’t be able to test any more after this until the official release.
I thought stand strong seriously sucked compared to its ST counterpart. Why use strong when fp does more damage, has more range (going off aesthetics, i dunno the hitboxes obviously) and seems to be just as fast? Im assuming they might be able to crouch st.fp and not st.strong but its still good for trading/stuffing things.
Unfortunately his jumpins suck this time around. I think his best jumpin now is j.mk or j.hk. MK has more hit frames but hk has more horizontal range. I didnt see jab strong or fp being any decent. Splash is still awesome, just wish he had a better BnB that knocked down rather than xup splash cr.lk xx dp. Is there anything better than this off a crossup?
standing strong is 1 frame faster than standing fierce im pretty sure, as i can combo close strong or jabs into far strong reliably but not into far fierce
How consistently can you guys land AA spire into EX DP, EX Dive or does the dive not connect off the juggle? This sounds like people will learn to NOT jump at t.hawk very quickly. And if his pokes are as good as everybody is saying t.hawk should just be able to intimidate a number of characters right into the corner.
Typically if you’re quoting a long post, it’s best replace what I wrote like this, just so it saves space:
Hawk Dive has a great hitbox, but if your opponent is spaced properly and anti-air you late (as they should), then you’ll probably lose out. The later you hit their DP, the better the chance you’ll beat it or trade with it.
If I remember correctly, it’s really tough to connect the dive off the juggle because AA Spire knocks your opponent up and away from you. However, I’m 99% sure I did it yesterday. In general, EX DP, EX Dive is worth the meter for the damage, wall carry and positioning it gives you afterward. The vast majority of my meter use was dedicated to EX Spire, for pressure and approach. I only ever had super once in my entire play session, but I didn’t use it.
Oh, I forgot to talk about his Ultras. I used Raging Typhoon most of the time, but I gave Raging Slash a try against Gief. Its trajectory is about the same as an EX DP. If they’re jumping at you, you can do the Ultra pretty late, which is good. It’s also really strong against neutral jumps. I mostly used it as a tool against opponents who jump away though, but here the timing is really tight. You pretty much have to hit them before they reach the peak of their jump, so you really have to be anticipating it. Full Ultra II does 450, which is pretty bad considering I think 720 is more practical and easier to land. I didn’t check the damage, but I’m pretty sure it still deals 600. You can tick into it off close short and d/f + jab easily. The best part about it is 1F activation obviously, so it punishes anything -1 on block, or unsafer. That means Viper can’t use her MP Thunder Knuckle once Hawk has Ultra, and I didn’t get a chance to test how unsafe Burning Kicks are now, but I think those might be punishable too.
After watching some decent Hawk players, it seems there’s a divide between those who use jab SPD and fierce SPD. Obviously, the payoff with jab SPD is the cross-up game afterwards. Hawk’s cross-up game looks strong, which is probably why jab SPD is pretty weak. What did you mostly use, Tofu? Did you explore some cross-up shenanigans after jab SPD?
Thanks for the response, Chinaman318. When I see Hawks use jab SPD, most of the time the opponent gets away, or Hawk does a bit of damage. It didn’t look worth it considering Hawk can get into footsie range after a Fierce SPD using dive anyways. Is the difference between speed and range significant?
im pretty sure its like gief, with jab spd being 2 frame or so (dont quote me lol) and fierce being like 4. Range is HUGE between the two. Jab typhoon has monster range.
EX typhoon has like medium typhoon range and startup, but invul frames i believe. 200 damage (down from 250 for fierce typhoon)
i guess you can EX uppercut on wakeup but its not great. EX typhoon gives you some invul too. Neither are great options.
Meaty refers to doing an attack early during an opponent’s wakeup so that it hits during the latter active frames of the attack, giving you more frame advantage and letting you link into stuff you normally couldnt
All gief normal SPD are 2f startup and 2f active except EX which was more startup (4) but had inv. in vanilla. I have not been able to take it to training but I would assume all startups for normal Hawk 360 are the same (guessing 2f with what I was able to do) EX maybe maybe more but EX does have some hit inv. because I was using it through block string holes. The range needs to be tested, I felt like fierce reaches for days, almost the same as jab and would not be surprised if they were the same or just little diff in range. Pure guess but I would ESTIMATE 1.5ish on fierce. I felt like I hit every fierce grab right around honda jab ochio range which is 1.5 in vanilla.
Hmm after checking out T.Hawk’s trial vids, you can cancel ex condor off of cl.mk and cl.mp I believe makes his highest damage hit confirm w/o jump-in/FA just cl.lp, cl.mp xx ex condor? Not so good in the combo department for hawk :. Maybe he’ll just be mid-tier in that case.
I used fierce SPD exclusively for the exact reason you mentioned; a dive puts you close enough to continue zoning with his great normals, which is how I like to play T. Hawk. I would use jab SPD once I had Ultra (Raging Typhoon), because a smart opponent realizes that now you’re trying to set it up. But I don’t try to throw them, I just punish them for trying to avoid the throw. A personal favourite shenanigan of mine after jab SPD is empty jump, EX DP, EX Dive. It looks so much like a 720 attempt that they won’t dare block. It will beat attempts to jump away, most reversal DPs and some back dashes, making it a good trick that deals a lot of damage.