T.Hawk Laboratory

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
201

Ok - some revisions to the above stuff I tested last night.

Off a LP SPD setup on Ryu, Ken and Sagat there is a timing and spacing for a safe splash that beats all reversal DPs (except Ken MP version which trades in Hawks favour) and EX DPs whiff for your option select to come out for the hurt. Better still when you have optimum timing for the splash it does beat backdash for these characters too. For Ryu you can option select HP Tomahawk, for Sagat the same and the Tomahawk will auto correct and hit the EX DP in the air. For Ken I advise using LP Tomahawk. Both EX and HP Tomahawk seem to whiff becasue Kens EX DP goes so bloody high. The LP Tomahawk whiffs but you recover first and are stood ready for an SPD or mp xx Tomahawk as he lands and recovers. Now that I have an idea of the timing and spacing you can replace Tomahawk as the option select with sweep. The sweep auto corrects on the EX DP whiff from the shoto and puts you next to them. Alternatively if you have the timing of the safe splash down you could just not bother with an option select as your splash beats their reversals and backdash and if they EX DP they go flying into the air and you can close the space and punish - why over complicate things :-). Basically if you can get consistent with the jump splash timing after the LP SPD Ryu, Ken, Sagat will loose to this or have to take your pressure.

Balrog next. I spent some time this morning and came up with this - LP SPD, safe splash (timing as with the shotos), option select sweep/jabs. What happens? Well he can’t backdash because if the jump is timed well he looses or if you messed it up slightly the sweep gets him, if he trys LP or MP headbutt they loose to splash, if he goes for HP or EX headbutt they whiff and Hawk auto correct sweeps his ass, if he EX dash punches as a reversal his armour takes the splash, but on recovery your jab takes the life he thought he had saved and if he turn punches as a reversal your sweep wins as a counter hit. This is a simple option select and seems to shut Balrog down off a LP SPD. Oh and if he tries to c.hp your splash he either looses or it whiffs and you land and sweep comes out and gets him lol. The sweep is so solid in this case because you get an untechable knockdown if he tries stuff or he losses life and if he gets swept it starts again.

Just to be clear on the above, the splash timing is roughly 1 second after you recover from the LP SPD. It looks like it will cross up but it hits in front (to test it, you know you have it right if your splash hits Ryu on the top of his head as he gets up, corsses up and hits if he tries a reversal LP, MP or HP DP, EX DP will whiff and if he backdashes it hits his knees). Record T hawk in training and then use Ryu for the test.

Next I need to look at individual options from LP and MP SPDs and safe jumps - One example I need to explore more is vs Fei - LP SPD, Splash, OS EX Tomahawk/Jabs - all his flame kicks lost or got auto corrected with EX Thomahawk and if he EX Chicken Winged the EX Tomahwak destroyed it, but his backdash is solid and it was a bit hit and miss on that from the few goes I tried…more tests needed. Also I want to spend more time on Spire as an OS - It came out by accident VS Rog when I was testing sweep OS and looked pretty useful. I really hope it has some uses vs the teleport characters for example…but damn its strict inputs!

Anway if I find anyomore that are really solid I will of course post them up. I think the thing that interests most about the big guy is that people think he is basic, yet I am certain he has more tricks if you are prepared to take the time. This sort of digging around and finding OS that work is something I never did with Honda becasue he had none.

Lastly, these are nice tools to have but are no good if you don’t get that LP SPD or knockdown.

202

Good stuff. Glad someone is putting in time to do this. Why you think I would care who discovers these things is beyond me. But whatever. It looks like blocking is the best thing to do when waking up aganst THawk. Or focus back dash.

203

Wouldn’t the back dash or focus back dash just get beaten by the two hit sweep regardless?

204

No it would not because the splash would register as a hit and the sweep would not come out. What would happen though is the first jab would catch Rog before he recovers and the grey bit of life would vanish.

205

I would think focus absorb backdash would absorb splash and make any followup miss.

206

I’d just like to say that Vance proved over and over this weekend at NCR that a standing 720 is possible. Maybe not easy, but possible. I can’t do it with a Sanwa stick, but I’ll plug in a Saturn pad and see if there’s something to this pad thing.

Unless Gief is able to do it and T Hawk isn’t for some reason.

207

I was there too. I didn’t see it but I heard he performed it.

It was awesome to see a grappler in the top sinlges. Too bad he couldn’t beyond Alex Valle. I really thought he was going to win since Alex seemed so inconsistent with his play.

208

Is it just me, or is Condor Dive > Raging slash? Only time raging slash works is when the airborne T.Hawk is really low.

209

Well I think RS only has 6 or 7frames of invincibility (maybe less) on the way up, so that would make some sense.

210

I knew T. Hawk had some mean option selects, he just HAD to. I haven’t had time to explore them much because I (sit down for this) don’t actually own the game…I don’t even own a game console. I can only play at my brother’s at a various friends’ houses. And when I’m at those places I’m always playing matches, never just exploring stuff in training.

This stuff is…whoa! As soon as I get some “alone time” with the game (which might be a while) I’m gonna practice this OS stuff until my fingers bleed. Maybe then I’ll actually be able to contribute.

211

the splash o-s ex tomahawk/jab chases down and hits cammy’s fp. (i believe it was fp) cannon spire. Had some wierd things happen against Guy’s EX reversal–i swear that move is invincible forever.

also, haven’t tried it yet, but i’m really hoping we can get some o-s spire stuff going on.

212

Right, back with some more Option Selects and general setup/mix ups from lp SPD. Lets start with the more straight forward stuff:

Post LP SPD Mix Ups

The first one, which has been mentione befored is hp Condor Spire cross up EX Tomahawk xx EX Condor Dive - I would like to explain in more detail why this is a great mix up. There are 3 escapes from this - the first is a back dash, the second are EX DPs, EX Seismo, EX Roll for Abel…others I have not found yet, or lastly block (which means you can get safe by cancelling the EX Tomahawk into EX Dive anyway). The reason this mix up is so effective, is the first thing in 99% of players minds (I have found) is to get the hell out of there. Why else would T Hawk have just crossed them up if he is not going to look for a throw?..he is a grappler after all. So what do they do they try? - a jump; and your combo means they are sat on nearly half life. The only time to think twice is against a DP loaded with meter or EX Messiah…etc - the nasty reversals! The way your opponent reacts to the first time you do this will dictacte how this mix up goes if you get chance to use it again and gives you a read on your opponents tendancies in a tight spot…and after all I am finding that getting success with a grappler requires that you read your opponent well.

The second setup I have been having success with is LP SPD immediate jump forward xx Condor Dive (at the earliest time) EX SPD, EX Thomahawk or just block. The Condor Dive crosses up and looks like it can be punished when in fact you are safe if you timed it right. Most people tend to try and punish whiffed Condor Dive with pokes, which is why EX SPD is a good option here. Again get a read on what they do and it will help you to see how they react to you - are they a neutral jumper, do they reversal, do they lock up and block. On the whole Condor Dive IMO is more about being an airbourne version of Condor Spire - its best use is closing space and baiting stuff.

More Character Specific Option Selects

Guile

Quite simple for Guile after LP SPD. Safe jump splash (see the timing I explained for Ryu in an ealrier post and don’t cross him up) with the option select of sweep/jabs/nothing! You know you have the timing of the jump right if it stuffs all his flash kicks, which actually hit as a cross up because they move him forward, it beats his c.hp and it beats his Sonic Hurricane on wake up because that also moves him forward too and you end up crossing him up even though if he did nothing you would land in front of him. The sweep is actually there as a fail safe if he can backdash at all (so if you time it a little off - the other stuff should still loose anway).

Abel

Ripped straight from Gief - LP SPD, ambiguous safe cross up splash (you are going for a cross up, but need to do it late so it hits mid face/shoulder height) with the option select of SPD/block. Becasue it is a cross up, it means he is not going to back dash, if you timed the jump right his EX COD whill be blocked, if he tries EX wheel kick it looses and if he EX rolls, it auto corrects right into your grab. If you time the jump slightly wrong, then the only thing that changes is his roll moves him away, but you are safe…clealry you want him to come straight into your arms though.

Fei Long

Same as the Shoto ones above and you need to get the timing of the jump so it stuffs his flame kicks and his backdash - it is doable. The option select you want is EX Tomahawk/c.lp’s. All the flame kicks loose and his EX flame kick either gets stuffed ot whiffs and is then hit by auto correct EX Tomahawk. The reason I suggest EX Tomahawk in this situation is if he does EX Chicken Wing. If you did staight up HP Tomahawk it would loose to this move, but EX Tomahawk wins clean, or the moves pass through oneanother and you both end up safe having expended a bar each. At no point did EX Chicken Wing win in my tests.

Viper

LP SPD, safe splash cross up (as with Abel) Option select EX Tomahawk/c.lp. So what happens - your cross up splash beats back dahses, jump aways, EX flame kick, HP thunder knuckle and if she EX Seismos, your splash whiffs and EX Tomahawk takes her to the sky for some hurting. Don’t bother when she has Ultra 1 though

With all of these there are a few things I would like to add as simple notes. Be careful with them when your opponent has Ultra. I personally don’t try to use them if I know my opponents Ultra has plenty of invincibility. Secondly, I apologise that I cannot put these up in videos as I don’t have the equipment to do so. I understand it would be easier to see it in action, but on the flip side this way does also mean if you want to learn to do it you have to experiment with it - sometimes videos are not enough and its vital you have a feel for these things to get them to work consistently over time.

Hopefully there are more to follow from me and I also hope to see some others from other T Hawk players. Oh and before anyone thinks I have some godlike T Hawk - I dont’t. Today was my 5th straight day of using him so in matches he is still fairly basic and doing this stuff in a training room is a damn sight easier than doing it vs a live opponent.

Lastly, just a note on tactics. Now my point of view comes from having played Honda too, but I am having success with this style so far. Basically, I never go looking for SPDs early, but instead employ what I call T Hawks hands - s.lp, s.lp. s.mp - these type of combos. These give me a couple of good things - I build plenty of meter, it stops jump aways and gets your opponent thinking about the blocking. I do the same thing with Honda - establish a blocking mentality with jab hands block strings before I go looking for Oicho. Even if you land a few of these strings it eats away at your opponents health and gets them worried about it first and you can also see at what point they are trying to get away fi they are worried about the throw (standing in the middle of block strings or getting his when they were blocking). The trick for me is to see if they ever start blocking full strings. or after how many jabs they look like they want out…because once they block a c.lp, s.lp, s.lp s.mp string I feel confident they are ready for some SPDs or at what point if any I can go looking for SPDs - not tick, after the 2nd tick…etc. Its not 100% proof (people are of course unpredictable), but it helps with the mind games, conditioning your opponent and of course reading their tendancies.

213

I love you…in a brother sort of way of course.

214

against vega i’m currently liking splash o-s spire/jab after a few matches as they tend to wakeup command cartwheel/backdash/whatever that hop thing is. I haven’t been able to make it to the training room to test all of vega’s wakeup options though. With akuma, and his invincible reversal, i think o-s tomahawk would be best since tomahawk actually takes you farther across the screen than spire.

regarding the lp typhoon hp spire crossup into ex tomahawk… I like the general idea but i think that needs conditioning first. I don’t think many people have seen the corpse crossup spire yet and their first inclination is going to be to block (enter typhoon). if you do it AGAIN, though, and they are smart, I think the ex tomahawk could be a worthwhile gamble as long as you have life lead. Otherwise requiring a hit and two bars of meter may be too high a risk for the reward.

I believe you can also crossup and recover with a whiffed tomahawk (can’t remember which one) to give them another look that would lead into the same situation.

215

On the cross up hp spire after lp spd the reason I go for ex tomahawk first is if they are blocking I get safe and learn something about them without getting hurt for it (unless they tried an ex dp or something). With going for the grab first I have also learnt my opponents reaction but often atthe expense of a neutral jump into some damage. Simply doing nothing at the cost of no meter is also a great way to read them for the next chance you get.

On the tomahak option select vs akuma - it’s too risky as he recovers while you are still on your way to landing.

216

I was worried about this. especially now with his ultra 2. i’ll have to check and see what o-s spire puts hawk in position for what poke.

217

Against akuma, option select ex spire will track his teleport but its weird. If you crossup with splash and os ex spire and he teleports BACKWARDS, you will go in opposite directions. If you crossup with splash and os ex spire and he teleports FORWARDS, it will track. On the other hand, if you DONT crossup with splash and os ex spire and he teleports BACKWARDS, spire will track. If you DONT crossup with splash and os ex spire and he teleports FORWARDS, you go in opposite directions. If the opp knows this, it fucking sucks but if they dont, its best to NOT crossup unless in the corner. Akuma is a fucking gay match anyways. Hate it.

218

Something new - lp spd, safe jump lk…is unblockable on Ryu, Ken, Sakura, Fei, Ibuki and Akuma from the first character tests I have done (although akuma never needs to block, he can just teleport away lol).

What happens when you get the timing right? Basically if they block normally it hits as a cross up, if they block it as a cross up it hits in front. It is so ambiguous (even though you are jumping from the point you recovered from SPD and for all intents and purposes it lloks like it is infront of them) that if they try to back dash you cross them up and they backdash into you. If they try to jump, the move pins them right where they get up and it has hardly any hitstun for some more fun and games to follow.

There are escapes - some safe and some not at all for a follow up (but none put Hawk in harms way). I’m not posting them, as frankly I don’t want to find a setup on wake up that could be useful and then give people the answers as to how to get out of it. Anyone who plays those characters can go and figure it out for themselvs!

219

I have no idea what youre talking about with an “unblockable” lk.

220

Sounds pretty fancy getting the timing distance for the lk on wake up perfect…

Thanks for your efforts though, they are keeping me inspired.

As something I’ve learned…I?ve found that the best hit confirm combo to pull with hawk is splash > close stand strong > stand jab >stand strong

Then you can sub out the stand strong on the end for an EX Spire if they try to backdash, jump, focus…or you can still be in range for a jab typhoon tick after the stand jab.

Its been working well for me on ambiguous cross up splashes.