It’s not about the speed of the overhead, it’s about the animation. Maybe it has a 24f startup, but if you can’t tell it’s an overhead until like 12f into the move, then you’re not going to react to it. The average overhead has an obvious “I’m the overhead” moment considerably earlier.
The main source of blocked overheads for me has been range - they have a little bit more range than the low-hitting moves, and sometimes I forget that.
The people I play with easily react to anything that starts in 24f. My friends whiff punish b+mp if I don’t follow it up sometimes. Like Newtype Andy mentioned, maybe not punish unless they know the Asuka matchup but block most of the time. The good thing is yeah, it goes over lows and is safe so I think it’s decent move, especially if you get a nice read on a low, but it’s still slow enough where people will hit you out of it, but more importantly what kind of damage does TFK get you after you land it? I honestly haven’t gone into this yet.
Ryu overhead is +4 on hit so it can combo.
I think yeah TFK is a decent move, Tsuwabaki is meh. It’s great that you can combo after it (non plinkable 1frame link) but it’s too risky against competent players, I guess if you learn to time it nicely on Oki it becomes usable.
“The big thing is that both leg cutter, Tsuwabuki, and EX Sweep Throw can be done on reaction to the tech.”
You mean on Oki walk up close threaten a throw, get them teching then back away and confirm into one of those? I haven’t tried it, throws are a bit weak in this game but I’ll try it out.
Asuka can stand at a position where she can get meaty tsuwabuki and sweep throw on neutral or forward tech, but if she does that and they roll past her what can she do to cover their backdash?
And does anyone knock the knockdown frames on her sweep? Seems to be about 40 or so. I’ve been trying to time meaty overhead by whiffing st. mp but it’s not quite right. (In any case I don’t think whiffing normals is much better than doing it by eye.) If they tech roll I try and go for it as soon as I’m facing the right direction.
I’ve been hit out of TFKs, but usually just by a cr.strong or jab. I’ve never really been severely punished for attempting it. As far as damage output, I think I remember I usually get 315 damage with Law? It was a little over 300.
You can backdash Tsuwabuki, but the Asuka’s other options give backdashing trouble, so it’s a guess on their part, this is true of alot of oki.
What I meant by reaction is, after a hard knockdown stand in between both tech locations, because asuka’s options are all fast (much faster than a tradition jump for oki), you actually have plenty of time to see which way they are teching and do the appropriate option, which will almost always be a 50/50 between leg cutter and tsuwabuki. You also have ambiguous jump in mixups like alot of other characters to add more layers.
Also, keep in mind all Asuka’s combos end in a sweep, so you always get the same hard knockdown to work with.
I think it’s around 43f. If you use cMP instead of stMP to time, that is much closer to the time for a full meaty fMP, but it may be a few frames off.
Thing is, rolls are 31f and normal standing is 30f i.e. practically the same. Tsuwabuki hits full meaty at 20f, so it’s pretty easy to just watch and throw it out as soon as you notice them rolling or getting up, like you said. When I tried to time it with a normal whiff, sometimes the roll going past me would make the input come out as bMP instead.
Oh shit FlyingVe is getting into this character a bit?
I trust this guy…he helped my boy Chrisis with awesome UMVC3 Viper tech and just tech in general. I trust his word on breaking down certain characters.
I feel dumb I’ve been doing sweep throw after people start blocking my over head. I’ll have to try out leg cutter now… feel so dumb for not thinking about that at all. I guess I imagined it would be too slow to do on reaction x_x
I just linked it. overhead, st.lp, launcher into whatever. Similar with Guile (cr.lp), who is my SF4 main, I didn’t even know lol. Did it on Law mid screen, not even hard (2f link).
Nothing special but I think only st.jab links after his overhead. It’s 3f startup and reaches. Everything else whiffs. I’m just shocked Guile can link after his overhead, and his is also safe at -2.
Edi: Ah it’s not that easy with Ryu. There’s no trick but usually you do overhead on crouching opponents, but if the opponent is crouching then the st.lp will whiff. So you CAN link after his overhead but I guess you have to hit a standing opponent with it. That’s not very useful.
I was thinking about something. If Cammy in SSF4 can score a grab guarantee with hooligan throw on wake up because you cannot crouch as soon as you wake up. What about Asuka in SFxT ?
You can roll in this game and that was only off of a throw cammy could do that.
Also sweep throw pushes them away which hurts asukas game anyways, so you’re better off just setting up her mix up game instead unless you’re playing vs gief or hugo I guess.
Well, Hakan did the same thing as Cammy on many of his knockdowns. It only worked off of Cammy’s throw for consistency reasons, but it’s probably still true that when you wake up, you have 4 forced standing frames unless they are cancelled (by a special or a crouching normal, which most people still don’t seem to know to this day). Waking up while holding crouch will not cancel the forced standing frames unless they press a button basically. So yes, I would say it’s worth looking into to see if there are any setups for oki Sweep Throws. Or if these standing frames are still present in this game for that matter. Sure, you can roll forward, but it’s still a good idea to have setups for both wake-up options. You can at least 50/50 them fairly reliably.
I can see it used to end a round or zone them out/ free tag.
but he mix up provided by hard knock down into more mix up is probably still going to be better 99% of the time.
Not saying it’s a bad idea to look into it and explore asuka more, just as of now it seems like the normal mix up off of a hard knock down is better.
I have to make some test again but from what i see after a normal wake up, you wake up standing during 3/4 frames before you end in full crouch position.
Without hitboxes it’s hard to say when you are really crouch or not
I noticed that when you wake up after a roll, it’s look like you are in crouch position during 4 frames instead of stand.
I’m really not sure about this 4 frames. It’s perhaps 3 frames.
I know in SSF4 when you wake up, you are unthrowable during the first two frames. the question is during how many frames you are unthrowable in SFxTK ?
Edit : Yes it’s just 170 damage with no follow up but that can force your opponent to do a move on his next wake up like jump, backdash. If you can predict a jump an punish him with a big combo, that can be good. Example you store a counter hit during the knockdown to fear him to push button.