Watts - I know exactly what you’re talking about sir (when it comes to executing in clutch situations on Sanwa). But, SteveTren is right in the sense that if you want to play ST vs humans these days, they pretty much force you to play on Sanwa. Put an LS-32 in the cab bro, and I bet you get your DP/FB on point 100% more of the time. Just a suggestion! Pz.
Back in the mid 90’s I drove over an hour from Binghamton, NY to Syracuse, NY just to play on wico 360’s. I believe they had the only set of wicos in Upstate NY. Of course gas was cheaper back then. heh.
To this day I am trying to adapt to Sanwas. It is not easy at all. The whole motions changes, even the grip you have is impossible to apply on Sanwas. Ryu missing uppercuts and hadous is a Ryu who loses when the game is played seriously. And it does not need to be Hawk or Gief against you.
The vast majority of SF players around here could not adapt to square gate. They have tried. Shit is hella weird.
Yep ST in america should be played on an american cab period. That’s why we are lucky to have both setups here at super Arcade =)
We had LS-32’s in the cab but they wear out too quickly and feel like crap compared to Sanwa sticks. I personally don’t like either of them but the majority of the players here prefer Sanwa since it’s the default standard for today’s arcade stick. If I had my way we’d be playing on Sanwa JLW’s with Round gates (I’m not a fan ot the new Happ IL’s and the P360’s are a little wonky IMHO). I’ve played on just about every stick there is and the JLW to me is the perfect stick =D That said even I am trying to adapt to the new standard and it’s very difficult.
It’s like that say in martial arts you don’t have time to think you just react. I think part of it is that you are using a different part of the brain and not thinking about the moves you are doing you are simply reacting to certain situations using muscle memory rather than focusing on the actual motion of the attack. While the other part of my brain is thinking about strategic attacks. I find that when I play with an unfamiliar character I don’t have the same issues with the stick because the muscle memory hasn’t set in yet and I’m thinking about the motions of each attack more. Once you have burned these patterns into your brain, it’s hard to rewire your thinking. Plus I’m really old so that doesn’t help either =P
If you want to play me at 75% of my ability then we can play on Japanese setups, if you want my full potential then we play on American (or JLW’s)
For me, once you start using Wico360s, you can’t go back. Best stick I’ve ever used. Unfortunately, since they’re not being made anymore, I have to adapt to using Japanese parts, which has been a hard transition for me. Tbh, I don’t feel comfortable in anything other than the American ST cab at super, or my own stick at home, which I’ll never be able to use at the arcade. And the LS-32s feel like the gates have gravel stuck in them.
It’s a tricky situation. On one hand people will argue ,“just learn the jap sticks dammit!” but when you’ve played on something for awhile it’s hard to change. If I had my choice I would be on pad, but that’s not a realistic possibility. I’ve practiced on jap stick and played on wico360s and still don’t feel as comfortable as I do on pad. I can bang
away at jap sticks all I want(and I have) but I will never feel same control I feel on pad. But I do the best I can on jap sticks, just because it’s the only way I can play offline st.
To me, everything boils down to this. EVO. What setup is going to be at EVO? American cab? ok, lets practice on American cab. Japanese cab? Lets practice on Japanese then.
Logistically, its impossible to keep the scene alive on american cabs. No way to lug that shit around to local tournies or regional majors. If you want to play ST in tournies these days, its going to be on someones supergun. If you want to keep playing on american sticks, you are cutting yourself out of the scene, unless you bring your own stick, or your own gate like Voltech has been doing. Players, remember this, when you show up to a tourny, all you bring is yourself. You have to keep in mind that the ST scene doesn’t have the luxury of having an arcade perfect version of our game on those small portable consoles. We have super guns and the big huge CRTs that come with it.
If everyone at super arcade switched to the American cab, when we all get to evo, we would be fucked. That’s why I think talking about the american sticks is a waste of time. The main event will be played on Japanese sticks, adjust or be left out.
I heard at evo st will be on a seimetsu setup which is why Afro had voltech install a seimetsu stick for the arcade stick he uses on ggpo. I know the seimetsu joystick was in before at sa but people complained so now it’s sanwa. So right now the setup at sa is diff from the one that will be at evo.
I believe Seimetsu would be the best choice for Evo. I play slightly better on Sanwa but I’m thinking our Japanese friends are used to playing on Seimetsu and we should cater to them.
Like dngr s said, we should have whatever setup will be at evo. Afro told me it will be seimetsu so… We should have that. At the end of the day people will always be unhappy with a particular setup. The majority seem to prefer sanwa, but seimetsu will be at evo from what I’ve heard.
I disagree, why cater to the Japanese players when they never catered to us =P Evo could very well be on Sanwa sticks (DGV’s got an amazing Setup) or on Seimitsu\American (Bob the Painters setup has both Seimitsu and American) even better yet on a Supergun setup where you could use any stick with a PS2 adapter. I agree it would be a good idea to get these details hammered out so we can adjust if needed.
We can discuss all this BEFORE the announcement of the tournament, but we already decided what setup we have at EVO.
Top 32 - kurocab or Japanese h2h cabs. Kurocab has LS32 and american happ switchable panels. Japanese h2h has LS32.
LCQ - kurocab or Japanese h2h or supergun. Technically you can use sanwa, pad, round gate on the supergun. But if you advanced to top 32, you risked not being able to execute on kurocab or the h2h.
It’s hard to enforce all ToL qual to have the same equipment or your local arcade to have the same.
So practice on whatever you can get ahold of but the equipment used in top 32 has already been decided when ToL was announced.
kind of glad i ranted a bit lol, its good to have these stick issues for evo brought out in the open. every one of you plays a part in keeping the scene alive and deserve to have a voice. gotta practice up for what you will be playing on a great point and you guys should all stick to it. ive played on cigar bobs old cab, aka kurocab, and its pretty legit for whatever stick you want. easy to switch out the panels and gives you that nice arcade feel of sturdiness.
gonna be trying out something next sunday at the request of our local ST guys and hope it works out so everyone can be happy!
Ok, let me try to clear up a few things concerning Evo. First of all, our stands currently feature Sanwa Square Gate. We are in the process of trying to include an American panel as well for those who would like to use that. Regarding the KuroCab, Bob has an American panel and he is “considering” switching out “something.” It might be the stick (presently he has LS32), or it just might be the buttons. Either way, our stands will only feature Sanwa & American sticks. Ghaleon is also bringing an adapter that will allow Laugh’s adapter (PS2-> DB connector) to connect directly to the board. We will probably bring ours as well. So this means anyone with a PS2 compliant stick or pad CAN use that at the tourney, regardless of the station (our stand, Kurocab, or Bernie’s H2H).
As far as a “standard” is concerned, the only real standard right “now” is PS2/DB-15 compliant hardware. That means no particular stick, gate, etc is the de-facto standard. Voltech is right…we should be concerned with our scene first. After Evo, the scene will have to reassess things in light of future tests to come , ’ )
Just to let everyone know concerning the tourney that will be taking place this Sunday @ Super Arcade…
We will be running the tourney exclusively off Mame 0.145 (emulator) via Windows 7. This will be an excellent opportunity for us to find alternatives to Superguns for the future of ST.
Things to note:
[LIST=1]
[]Bring your own sticks/pads…specifically 360 & PS3 sticks. If you have both a 360 & PS3 TE stick, opt for the 360 version. Some versions of the PS3 TE sticks have driver issues with PCs. As long as your peripheral can connect via USB, you should be good to
[]Ken & myself will be bringing our Stands (both have Sanwa)
[*]The tourney will be streamed
[/LIST]
See you all on Sunday…Paper… can’t wait to see the new technology!
This should be interesting…
Let me translate this. I started on HDR, and I thought that was the best shit ever. SF2 compared to SF4? No comparison. We did our best to keep HDR alive. Fought teeth and nail with everyone to defend it. But in the end, turn-outs decided the outcome. HDR heads didn’t want to show up at tournies, regardless of how hard they fought online through theory fighting about how great HDR was. Through offline turn-outs, ST was the clear cut winner. (It was still the same bunch of guys that showed up for HDR by the way.) Offline competitors in the west had to adapt. So now we all play ST.
Here is the new challenge, the logistics of it all. I wanted to build my own super gun to play with my friends locally. But the super gun itself racked up to around 300 bucks, and the ST board was about that much too. roughly 600 bucks for a 20 year old game. Shit is hard to justify. Keeping a scene alive at the cost of 600 bucks an area code is fucking killer. PC emulator is the answer. Its cheap and effective. I’m all about arcade ST, to me, there is nothing better. Everything else feels like shit to me. But it doesn’t mean shit if the rest of the US has no access to it. This is where the Mame setup comes in. If that setup can satisfy folks to a point, I think that is our salvation.
Sounds good guys… As an IT person myself, I feel a little wierd playing a trouney on a Windows based emulator. Please make sure your PC is virus free and has no memory intensive applications running in the background which can cause lag. I’d hate to see the Blue Screen of Death during a match between Afro vs DGV or something.
A friend of mine compiled XMAME for Linux sometime ago, and even though it did work, it would occasionally crash. Unfortunately, Windows is the way, atm, for emulation. Some box with XP, no anti-virus and such crap and not allowing anyone to plug anything in it other than source, video and joystick cables would be OK. Nowadays, one can get computers that run CPS-2 emulators in trash bins.