SUPER Tallahassee Thread: Arcade Edition EX+ α

Regional Matchmaking Atlantic South
821

I think the main thing that EVERYONE is missing is that sometimes, you don’t understand what’s going on just by looking at it. Questions need to be asked.In addition, we also have to acknowledge that Drew and Mike J are newcomers, and will require guidance. Drew has many questions, mike doesn’t have all the answers, and they’ll both need us vets to fill in the gaps that SRK does not.

Logan/Ron: I think it’s very bad for your growth as a player to not know how your mix up works. How can you expand on something and come up with something new if you don’t know the details of what you’re doing? EVERY mix up has some sort of reasoning or explanation to it, and if you never figure out what beats it, how will you make the adjustment for when someone STARTS beating it? How will you build and become more creative to become a better player? Practice mode in fighters has evolved to a point where u can find these holes yourself, and cover them up. I’ve been playing valk for almost a year, yet I know ALL the holes in his rush down. I can also make the same boast for several characters (and several games actually) some of which I don’t even use/play, and I didn’t need years of match xp to get it.

Now if you don’t know what a specific character should do about it, then that’s different. But even then, if you have a thorough understanding of your mix up, you should be able to offer theoretical suggestions as to how to beat it. Example: Ron’s! He may not have known that Dante’s s.A could beat zero’s jump ins, but I’m very sure he would’ve suggested it as a reasonable counter. Ron plays this game waaaayyyyyy more than I do, and I found that dante’s s.A was an reasonable anti-air on week 1. Ron can’t sit here and lie to ANY OF US that he hasn’t used Dante AT ALL since the game dropped and not come to the same conclusion.

Example 2: This very day at Jay’s house. I was doing some pretty wild shit with Magneto (Chris/Jay can attest to this). Not b/c I’ve practiced it for hours (would be impossible for me atm), but b/c I know how the mixup works, I understood how to be creative on the spot, and I could’ve told Chris or Jay everything I did and/or why they got hit.

We should all strive to help each other become better. Jay and I do it all the time, and there’s no reason everyone else shouldn’t be able to either. If the holes in your game get exposed here, now, then you have time to refine your game, step it up, and get ready for tourney time.

Or you can pick Wesker and press buttons.

822

You’re either not understanding or you’re overextending the point I’m making. I specifically said that I CAN and DO offer ideas or my opinion of what you can do to counter my mix-up. I’m not saying “i don’t know how my mix-up works” as you put it. I"m simply saying I can’t ALWAYS specifically tell you what to do to counter it. You’re simply lying if you try to tell me you know exactly what every character can do to stop or beat some strategy at that same time that you find out how to use that strategy. People learn new counters etc. all the time, they aren’t all simply discovered as soon as someone figures out a mix-up, “oh hey btw, since I just figured out this offensive mix-up, I must also know every single possible way to counter it”, it just doesn’t work that way. That’s all I’m trying to say, and its definitely not THAT ridiculous that I usually find out the counters to my offense by people using them on me and then going “oh, that beats that, NOTED!”. Don’t even try to tell me you don’t learn the counters to your offense that way quite often.

You say “its bad for my growth as a player” as if I’m making some concious decision to not learn or attempt to learn these things. Thats not it. I’m simply saying I can’t POSSIBLY learn all the holes/counters on my own as fast or as well as I can by getting exposed to someone doing it to me, and quite probably that second method will reveal things that I might NEVER figure out on my own.

And to answer your question “how will yo make the adjustment for when someone STARTS beating it?” That’s the whole point of playing together and having sessions to learn! You guys beat what I’m doing so that I’m forced to learn how to not let you beat it anymore! If we play enough, hopefully we all get exposed to everything we need to so that we know what our counters are etc. And yes, the majority of what I’m talking about is, by nature character specific stuff, and usually the answers I can’t give ARE because I don’t play that character.

Like I said, you’re trying to make what I’m saying sound crazier than it is. Obviously I am not making the statement that I can NEVER tell you how to defend or react or counter to my mix-up. I can and usually WILL offer at least a DECENT AMOUNT of advice as to what to do. I’m simply making the statement that I can’t usually tell you EXACTLY what to do with your specific character, and sometimes can’t even tell you a certain counter that may exist because I don’t know it yet myself. There are new discoveries all the time in these games, and the way you guys are acting seems to dismiss that, because you seem to think that shouldn’t happen because I should already have known all the counters to my offense/mix-up, therefore how can someone discover a new counter if it should have already been known!?

Long story short: Give me some credit here, I’m not saying I don’t know how my offense or mix-up works. I’m just saying I can’t tell you everything or the exact perfect way to stop it EVERY time. (and neither can any of you, you’re lying to yourself if you think you can) Also, nowhere in here am I disagreeing with you about the fact that we should strive to discuss and help each other figure things like this out. Thats obvious.

823

That’s not at all the same as telling someone how to combat something. I know everything I do (when I’m not in autopilot mode), why I did it, and generally I know why it works. Still won’t help you learn how to or even if you can stop it if I don’t know your character - that falls on you.

824

thats not what he is saying. Well i think adon is saying that he may not know specifically what every character can do in every situation to stop things. But he does know what generally works to stop specific set ups with his characters personal mix ups and set ups( after playing to this point all of us should know this in nearly every game randomness aside). I also think he doesnt mean to bash players ability but to say that knowledge helps u grow as a player, sessions only help u refine your growth. U know application and all that jazz.

All that is besides the point. I think when it comes to training a player which is what were talking about is something logan touched on earlier and what i spoke to chris about. You have to understand at least the basic’s of your character and the game, and u have to understand whoever you are playing play style. Because in my opinion that contributes a lot to how a player processes the game. With mike and drew he’s trying to say he is not learning by just getting smashed. Some people do learn that but he is saying that he does not. What he does need is someone who understands a little more functionally of the game in depth strats.

825

Yeah this is defenitely what i was trying to say. I wasn’t specifically asking for Zero vs Dante setups/combos or Doom vs Dante Setups/Combos from Mike J . I was simply asking how to get through Fight Dante in general, what is a good approach against Dante, and that was information I didn’t get. You tell me that, then i start to work on setups to fight that team/character. Overall thats all I was asking for. I have a setup I would like to try tonight and after running it through my head last night it should work, so i’d like to try that tonight.

826

Jay hit it on this. Some nigs learn by getting thrashed. Some don’t. Hopefully we can accommodate for both. If we are getting thrashed, then that’s not something character we aren’t doing; the general approach we have to the match itself is wrong. Btw, appreciate the discussion Jay/Adonis yesterday.

Now how about that new Chris technology?!

827

I predict chris being rons best character in ultimate.

Anyway, all discussion aside about getting better, let’s get some good games in tonight and let’s get better!

828

Doom’s buffs just made me want to play UMVC3! Bring on the bullshit!

829

A few of us already have tickets and others are buying at the door.

Do we know you? I don’t recognize your screen name.

830

Team easy mode:

Wolverine Akuma Haggar

Thoughts?

831

I think I will blow that team up.

832

Logan you would blow ANY team I picked, hahahaha. That’s not saying much, man.

833

I think you accidentally a word there.

Tekken tonight at 7:30? Someone (that isn’t broke) comp Adonis’ ticket, he’s leaving next week! I can chip in some cash for it.

834

i would go if someone could comp my ticket

835

You mispelled Phoenix

836

I can chip in for you guys, I’ll just miss out on drinks and popcorn :wink:

837

So… who ISN’T going?

838

I’ll make my reply short since the convo is over, but Jay summarized my point pretty well.

Actually, in BB, I can do this. If you don’t believe me, I could show you, but you’d have to pick up the game :wink: I’m sure you can do this in MvC2/3 as well. I wasn’t trying to take any credit from ya Logan. Probably just took your statements a little too literally.

You’re right, it’s not the same, but it’s the first step to understanding how to combat something.

You guys are making me teary eyed over with all this charity. What are the plans for that anyways?

839

-raises hand-

Work son. Although I don’t know I’m opting to go in on my day off. I’m half tempted to say fuck it but I’d be setting myself up for headaches tomorrow if I don’t go.

Side note: kind of bored with SF so its time for Marvel for a month or so. Team Dive Kick and Team SF 2.1 (Viper, Chun, Ryu/Akuma) are back.

840

While you MIGHT be able to do that in BB (questionable since that implies no one can discover any new counters in the future, you already know all of them). I think you’re skipping over the last part, which you did quote, where I included “at the same time you develop the strategy”. Maybe you know all the counters to your offense in BB, maybe you do, but you learned them over time, you didn’t immediately know all the counters to your offense at the same time you developed your offense.

I can tell you what all the top tiers are supposed to do to counter the other top tiers strat/mixups in mvc2, but again, I learned that over time after having all of that exposed to me through playing a ton, and didn’t learn how to counter something automatically at the same time I learned how to do it.

Anyway I think were almost getting into arguing semantics here, we basically agree on the important stuff, which is we should be encouraging discussion while playing and helping each other find out how to stop the things we know how to, and if we don’t know we should be providing ideas or trying to figure it out.