nohoho: Um, you’re putting words into people’s mouths. I never said you can’t do a reversal normal throw. I only said that doing a reversal normal throw requires more precision than doing a reversal special move (and listed several reasons). This is consistent with the theme of my original post, which was not a discussion of game engine mechanics but rather an idea to account for flawed execution. If we were only allowed to talk under the assumption that everyone’s execution is perfect, i wouldn’t have made my post in the first place.
On the other hand, the last time Jeff played in a tournament was 1918. I have the utmost respect for players that were winning tournaments in the WW era, but the fact is that most of those people were ghetto as fuck and their understanding of the game engine is severly lacking by today’s standards. One time we were at someone’s house playing 3S, and some combo attempt whiffed against Chun Li because she’s so short. So then everyone says “Awww that was bullshit!” Watson was watching and he says “At least that bitch is meaty.” So i’m like “Wtf? Chun Li is meaty? What does that mean?” and he replies “You know, you don’t have to worry about short jab short not reaching her.” He wanted to say “fat” so he said “meaty.” Don’t tell me that’s not ghetto.
FURTHERMORE, my understand of Jeff’s post is that he was saying that he was missing the meaty c.MK entirely, allowing Daigo to uppercut his Guile without even having to do a reversal. You see this kind of shit in matches all the time. Player 1 mistimes a meaty and Player 2 lands an uppercut even though he missed the reversal timing. Guile’s c.MK is not the easiest meaty to land either.
Seriously dude, you’re actually contesting my statement that “throws don’t count as special moves”? How do you define a special move anyway? You can’t cancel normals into normal throws, you can’t do block damage with normal throws, and you can’t do normal throws with negative edge. So they fail all the litmus tests. I went back and read the discussion you pointed to and NKI proved that you can do reversal normal moves. Does that mean normal moves are special moves too?
No worries, it was a valid discussion trying to iron out the facts. Believe me, i know how frustrating it can get when the most basic knowledge is just deductions based on translations based on deductions. I had to “figure out” a lot of what i know about the way charge buildup/usage/storage works on my own. Then i look at old TZW videos and i see that they are using tricks i just figured out last week and it’s a little bit demoralizing. There’s no question that you know a lot more about ST than i do so i’m not trying to challenge you or anything. I’ve just been through this particular headache about the mechanics of reversals more times than i can count. The only thing that bugged me was that you implied that everyone outside of Japan is clueless … and while we’re definately at a disadvantage (and i feel your pain on that one), we’re also making a good deal of progress as a result of solid threads like this one.
(Turned PM’s back on since i have that combo video thread to update anyway. For a while i was barely checking SRK at all. Everyone goes through phases of loving or hating SRK. There are legit reasons for both i think.)
Btw, if you guys haven’t checked out hame_3431.lzh and hame_3430.lzh you should go download them now. Both are ST combo videos and there’s this awesome section where Guile airthrows just about everything. There’s some redundancy between the various videos in the lzh files but i think they were released over like a year period. If anyone can figure out some contact info for the author, please PM me or something.
Thank you for the answers thus far guys, and I’ve been remembering some of my questions.
7.) On one of the matches on nohoho’s putfile, under the heading 6/26/05 Singles, second from the top, listed as “Gunze(Zangief) vs. Takosan(DJ)”, which can be viewed by clicking this link: http://media.putfile.com/acho_sf2x626b, Gunze baits out Takosan’s upkick reversal and then at 89 seconds on the timer does this move that looks like his B+MK hopping move, done floating in the air. It’s an instant dizzy? Is this normal? And is this a normal move (the reason I don’t go check for myself is that I’m home for the holidays and away from any way to test anything) or some trick I haven’t learned. It’s just that I’ve only seen this used this one time, and if it instantly dizzies like that I would expect to see more of it. Thanks:).
8.) In the SSF2X Taikou video, part 2 (mine’s in 2 parts, I think I got it from NKI), theres a red-speedo wearing Gief that owns on people for a while (I’d say at least 10 matches?), then it cuts off. I don’t understand how that tourney/event works but I guess that was just a break in the action. He pulls out like every trick in the book and I was wondering if those squiggly symbols I can’t read spell out ‘Gunze’ in Japanese?
9.) I was curious how the SSF2T scene in Japan is. Is it still something people play a lot of (probably not nearly as competitively) or is it becoming less and less common like here in the US? Just curious.
Thanks again for your help guys. This thread has helped me a ton in both improving my game and stopping the boredom. I still think I’ll put those videos up of our match videos (once we make them), if for nothing more than to get a few pointers and a few laughs. I’ll just put a disclaimer about how terrible the matches will be and you’ll only watch them if youre reallllly bored.
Up + Strong or Fierce. One-hit dizzy? -> Sometimes? Usually? I dunno exactly. Towards + Strong or Fierce uses the same headbutt pose but it’s nothing special as far as dizzy goes.
Zangief player who makes it look like Zangief beats Dhalsim? That’s Pony. The tourney used a team format (it was a regional thing?) so that’s what’s going on with the long series.
??? Pony
??? Gunze
?? Kouchou (The Principal)
Those are three ferocious 'gief players. I have some video of kouchou, btw, that I got from hameko that I’ve been meaning to put on putfile. Later this week, hopefully.
There’s a group of really elite players that play at an arcade called Nagase UFO – it’s near Osaka I guess? They have tournaments in various formats including 1-on-1 20 match showdowns that sound pretty effing interesting. Movies are here – just look for the .zips and .wmvs. Shit is hot. I’m a fan of the blanka player, Komoda. |’,’|
That move you’re talking about is Gief’s “stomach crunch” (neutral jumping Fierce). In the Japanese version, it’s an instant dizzy, but its instant dizzy properties were removed in the American version.
You are so right. I’ll be lucky to get matches on a Friday night, so I don’t go unless there is a tourney. I also try to drag my brother along as much as I can. The best thing to do is come to a monthly tourney at CF, but post to let people know.
It would be great if there were 4-5 definete peeps to play on Friday.
But other than us NYC peeps on this thread, there is Flash and Jeron and you’ll never know when or if their heads will pop up. You have the 2 friends that exchange during matches( forgot their names) and than random people who usually aren’t great.
Honestly I just NOW got into it because I put Balrog (boxer) into my CvS2 team and it leaked into ST. I really don’t know anything about proper pokes / reversals / what have you yet, but Shag here will hopefully teach me the ways of the warrior.
Great thread, really enjoying reading. I have a few questions though. I haven’t played SF2 since about '93 and there is obviously a HUGE ammount of info and jargon evolved since I obsessed back in the day. My girlfriend caught me and a bud talking about old SF2 days and dropped a AE edition, Xbox and X-arcade on me as a suprise. So ! the point being…Im reading the thread and I keep seeing talk of various tactics but Im a little lost on the reference’s…so bear with me for some fairly n00b questions.
Whats a cross-up ?
is zoning merely jockeying for position ?
and what is the idea behind a tick then ‘x-attack’ ?
I’ve scooted about the boards etc and not found a thread that could enlighten me…so sorry in advance if this is standard stuff.
What’s the word on which game will be at Evo? AE? Supergun ST? Gettin’ a tad upset with the current US ol skool play(hey, I’m not sayin’ I don’t suck more than everyone, heheh). Just wanna know cuz, not playing so much, a lot has hit me and, if time permits, I’m gonna whoop yall this year.
I’ve said it before but I’m realizing more now from not playing all of this time…75% of the whole WORLD’s players are scrubs:( …on ST
Just wondering if AE is getting left to the new generation or what? ST is watered down at Evo so, don’t know the word on that either.
I’m a fan of the Japanese(Gian was a joy to play and seemed to be a really great guy…just like most of the Japanese I’ve been priveleged to meet) but I can’t keep NOT playing if the US players are content on lettin’ them have the ol skool crown.
Wtf is up with the ol skool scene, now? Bout as dead as the whole SF scene seems to be? Not talking the fighting game scene here. Talkin’ take off the blinders and check SF. I can’t believe it but, it seems that the SF scene is about as big as it was in ‘95 now. My lazy ass hopes that SRK keeps it real instead of coverin’ shit with other games. SRK does care about SF 1st and foremost, right?
who am I kiddin’?
Anyway, who’s plannin’ on taking that shiet back? Anyone?
That’s Pony. The tourney used a team format (it was a regional thing?) so that’s what’s going on with the long series.
