Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house

[Sexperienced]

Here’s my tier list if anyone’s interested (not that I entirely disagree with NKI).

Top tier:
Sim, O.Sagat, Claw, O.Ken, Hawk, Guile, Fei

middle of the top tier:
Boxer, Gief,

note: its impossible for a Balrog player to beat Sim or a Gief player to beat Vega if both players are equally as skillful. Other than that they can pretty much beat everyone else fairly easily.

Bottom of the top tier:
DeeJay, Ryu, Dictator, Cammy, Chun

Middle tier:
Ken, Blanka

Bottom tier:
Honda

[Nos99]

Hmmm, well I would call that ‘Fei using wrong strength rekkas.’ If you managed to throw Fei out of the third hit, then he wasn’t comboing rekka x3 correctly.

From further out, Fei cannot time a 3rd blocked wrekka without having a reversal hole in their (for SPDs, DPs, etc) and still stay safe if blocked… Timing isn’t an issue here, it’s spacing and distance.

But you don’t have to do 3, so moot point I guess.

Sexperienced: Tiers are pretty subjective, but yours is just loopy.

Hawk in the Top tier? Does he even have ONE dominating matchup? He’s low-tier for sure.

Cammy as good as Dictator?

Chun in the same level as BLANKA?

Honda rapes characters without FBs, so he should at least be mid-tier.

[Khiempossible]

But I’m talking about s.Fierce rekka 1 rekka 2, I throw and beat out rekka 3. All on hit.

Also: I’d really like to see your arguments for that tier list you’ve posted sexperienced. Cause I’ll be damned if even half of it makes sense.

[Sexperienced]

Chun in the same level as BLANKA?

My bad. I’d put Chun alongside cammy but thats it.

[Ryu1999]

But I’m talking about s.Fierce rekka 1 rekka 2, I throw and beat out rekka 3. All on hit.

Also: I’d really like to see your arguments for that tier list you’ve posted sexperienced. Cause I’ll be damned if even half of it makes sense.

Yeah I definitely want to see what alternative universe Sexperienced is from. No offense but your rankings are definitely :bluu:

[Nos99]

But I’m talking about s.Fierce rekka 1 rekka 2, I throw and beat out rekka 3. All on hit.

Oh… well. Shit.

I guess he just has to time it better. I don’t see why you wouldn’t be able o combo all three off a standing fierce. Unless you’re using Honda or something.

[NKI]

Unrelated note:
This is one of my favorite ST matches. It’s from X-MANIA V, and it’s Toutanki (Hawk) vs. Yoshimura (Sim).
JUICE

sac throws are real.

I remember this Honda-Zangief match, where Zangief was knocked down into the corner. Honda timed a HHS on wake up. The Zangief player, instead of blocking it, took the first hit, and grabbed Honda just when the hitstun finished with a SPD.

That is not evidence for sac throws, and it is a bad strategy for two reasons:

1. In that situation, Gief gets a free SPD even if he blocks it.
2. In that situation, Gief gets a free SPD on wake up (no need to block or get hit).

I can tell you didn’t read over the stuff I translated because T-Akiba only has evidence for sac throws involving normal throws, not for special throws. (But I don’t agree with what he said about normal throws, either.)

Here’s my tier list if anyone’s interested (not that I entirely disagree with NKI).

Whoa…I dunno what version of ST you’re playing, but those tiers are absolute madness. Hawk is top tier? Boxer is middle tier? Cammy isn’t the worst character in the game? I think you need to do some re-evaluating…

[Koop]

Here’s my tier list if anyone’s interested (not that I entirely disagree with NKI).

Top tier:
Sim, O.Sagat, Claw, O.Ken, Hawk, Guile, Fei

middle of the top tier:
Boxer, Gief,

note: its impossible for a Balrog player to beat Sim or a Gief player to beat Vega if both players are equally as skillful. Other than that they can pretty much beat everyone else fairly easily.

Bottom of the top tier:
DeeJay, Ryu, Dictator, Cammy, Chun

Middle tier:
Ken, Blanka

Bottom tier:
Honda

Wow. Thats off man. Way off.

[Kyokuji]

Originally Posted by Sexperienced.
Here’s my tier list if anyone’s interested (not that I entirely disagree with NKI).

Top tier:
Sim, O.Sagat, Claw, O.Ken, Hawk, Guile, Fei

middle of the top tier:
Boxer, Gief,

note: its impossible for a Balrog player to beat Sim or a Gief player to beat Vega if both players are equally as skillful. Other than that they can pretty much beat everyone else fairly easily.

Bottom of the top tier:
DeeJay, Ryu, Dictator, Cammy, Chun

Middle tier:
Ken, Blanka

Bottom tier:
Honda

Wtf, man, just… wtf.
Fei and Guile on top? HAWK ON TOP? 'Gief on top? Cammy above Ken?
There are so many things that are horribly wrong with this list.
Better tell Kuni he’s playing a top tier character, lol.

[System_1]

OMG NKI where can I find more of that Hawk goodness? Good matches like that are few and far between!

[System_1]

NKI :

Thanks again for the goodness ! Do you have all the X-Mania V matches ? I’d be very interested to see them all.

[jms]

From further out, Fei cannot time a 3rd blocked wrekka without having a reversal hole in their (for SPDs, DPs, etc) and still stay safe if blocked… Timing isn’t an issue here, it’s spacing and distance.

But you don’t have to do 3, so moot point I guess.

Gotcha, thanks.

EDIT: Toutanki XM5
Seeing as how it blew him the match, I’m trying to think what Sim’s plan was with that jumping RH. Had it hit, I think he might have been in range to at worst make Toutanki block super, and at best hit him with it if he tried dp or 360. I wonder…

[System_1]

That jumping RH at the end surprised me too, because the best thing to do in that situation was a standing RH. IMO this is what he wanted to do, but for some reason he messed up and jumped before pressing the button

[jms]

That jumping RH at the end surprised me too, because the best thing to do in that situation was a standing RH. IMO this is what he wanted to do, but for some reason he messed up and jumped before pressing the button

That’s exactly what I thought right when I saw that–OMG why didn’t he standing RH? But I can’t be content to think that and be done with it. I don’t think that he accidentally jumped. It looks to me like a judgement call that didn’t go his way. In other words, he thought the hawk dive was high enough so that he could jumping RH it after blocking. Still, I’m guessing he wouldn’t just randomly jumping RH to punish given the inherent risk (as we saw in the video!). So the question is, if the jumping RH hit as he planned it to, what was he planning to do AFTER that was so pimp?

[Kyokuji]

I wouldn’t read too much in to it.
I’ve done stuff like that all the time, where I’ll jump forward close up with 'sim and immediately think “Why did I do that”.

[Khiempossible]

Unrelated note:
This is one of my favorite ST matches. It’s from X-MANIA V, and it’s Toutanki (Hawk) vs. Yoshimura (Sim).
JUICE

A solid example of how 1 mistake can cost you game.

[jms]

I wouldn’t read too much in to it.
I’ve done stuff like that all the time, where I’ll jump forward close up with 'sim and immediately think “Why did I do that”.

Right, but you’re not getting me. We all make mistakes, sure. I might be wrong–maybe he just did mess up. But if you can analyze parts of matches like this and come away with something valuable, then it’ll give you something to add to your game and make you a better player as a result.

I just threw out my suggestion of ‘hit Toutanki with the jumping RH then use super as he lands’ based on the way Yoshimura was playing. Did you notice how aggressively he was building meter with vertical flame that match?

[Nos99]

1. In that situation, Gief gets a free SPD even if he blocks it.

Don’t tell me you can reversal through blocked hands?! :wow: That would be sweet!

Thanks for vid too! Toutanki is a beast!

[Khiempossible]

Here’s my tier list if anyone’s interested (not that I entirely disagree with NKI).

Top tier:
Sim, O.Sagat, Claw, O.Ken, Hawk, Guile, Fei

middle of the top tier:
Boxer, Gief,

note: its impossible for a Balrog player to beat Sim or a Gief player to beat Vega if both players are equally as skillful. Other than that they can pretty much beat everyone else fairly easily.

Bottom of the top tier:
DeeJay, Ryu, Dictator, Cammy, Chun

Middle tier:
Ken, Blanka

Bottom tier:
Honda

My favourite part here is that o.Ken is 4th best char in the game while n.Ken is 3rd worse char in the game. Look at all the power a completely invincible uppercut is worth.

[Kyokuji]

Bah, I’m having problems with aggressive O. Sagat players.
Defensive ones aren’t so bad, because I can just play fireball wars with them then toss out a low LK drill when I feel lucky, but aggressive ones just mess me up.

Namely the ones who jump in continuosly on me. His jumping FK seems to beat out all of 'Sim’s standing pokes, and jump back FP gets him off, but it’s dangerous to be jumping like that since if he doesn’t jump as well, I get TU’ed or tiger shotted.