Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house

[Nos99]

I gotta say, I love Toutanki’s(sp?) Hawk. He makes him look like a beast. Anyone know where I can find vids of him? I’ve seen him in the Xmania vids (i think it was him anyhow) and on the SBO vid.

If anyone can kick down some Hawk strats or tricks I would appreciate them as well. This is what I have so far:

jump jab is godly
negative edge 360s are godly
jump fierce has good hitting power (sim limbs, vs sweeps)
standing roundhouse for far range attack, trade with booms
ducking forward is good poke, maybe standing forward too
standing strong to snuff shoto fireballs
towards+jab can hit low attacks
whiff diving hawk to close the gap after 360
whiff close roundhouse into 720
crossup forward is best
roundhouse throw, hold up-towards, crossup forward
roundouse throw, walk under crossup in corner
ducking jab, standing jab, hit confirm rising hawk
rising hawk through fireballs (not jab ones though)
psychic rising hawk for knockdown
ducking jab owns everything from Blanka except far sweep
meaty deep jump jab is option select tick or block reversal anti-air
ducking jabs (push out of throw range) into negative 360 is top-tier
meaty jump jab, ducking jab, negative 360 is death loop in the corner

I always though that Old hawk was better because of the better standing roundhouse (and longer normals? I dunno) but I never see old Hawks being used in videos. I guess the super is really important, but I can rarely land it myself.

[System_1]

So, the PSX version of ST the characters are the right size, but dizzies and input times are messed up?

The Saturn, the characters were too big?

And DC they were too small?

Did anyone spend enough time with Hyper SF2 yet?

[Sexperienced]

can someone please give me a tier list for ST.

[NKI]

O.Guile can do s.short (not knee) while maintaining a charge, which makes a huge difference against Dhalsim and Blanka (stops slides under SB).

O.Guile can also do a back hand fist(F+FP for N.Guile) while also maintaining a charge. Just thought I’d throw that in as well.

I see. But I still don’t think that warrants playing O.Guile. Having an ambiguous cross-up which you can hit confirm for around 65-70% is just too good.

As Dhalsim how would I go about stopping a rushdown Chun player??

If she’s rushing you down with st.Strong from the right distance, there’s nothing that I know of that Sim can do to beat it cleanly except super. You need patience (keep in mind that blocking her st.Strong is not hurting you), and if she comes within your throw range, throw her. Don’t try any normals, because they will all get beaten cleanly if she’s rushing correctly (leaving just enough room for you to do a move, but not enough room for that move to hit). If she’s not doing it correctly (leaving a big gap between Strongs), you can use close cr.Forward or close cr.RH canceled into Yoga Fire.

Also what would be good to use for anti air with Sim.

If Sim has something (other than super) that he can do about Chun’s j.Forward, I don’t know what it is. All the Sim players I’ve seen either just block it or they get hit…never seen a clean counter.

so cammy has nothing good about her at all?

Her j.Strong is good, and her anti-air is good…but that’s about it. I guess her walking speed is decent too, but she just doesn’t have anything dominating to make up for her suckiness. :sad:

I always though that Old hawk was better because of the better standing roundhouse (and longer normals? I dunno) but I never see old Hawks being used in videos. I guess the super is really important, but I can rarely land it myself.

The super is key. If you can land that consistently, N.Hawk is clearly better, 'cause his super does HELLA, and you can safe option select it with the release method.

So, the PSX version of ST the characters are the right size, but dizzies and input times are messed up?

The Saturn, the characters were too big?

And DC they were too small?

There are other problems as well, but those are the biggies.

Did anyone spend enough time with Hyper SF2 yet?

The PS2 version is no good, because again the character sizes are wrong, the speed is wrong, and lots of little stuff was changed, like O.Sagat being weakened.

can someone please give me a tier list for ST.

This is pretty much the same as the one I posted in my Japan log, but I made a few slight changes…

Top tier:
Boxer, Claw, O.Sagat, Sim

Top of the middle tier:
Dictator, Chun, Ryu, DeeJay

Middle tier:
Guile, N.Ken/O.Ken, Honda, Fei

Low middle tier:
Gief

Bottom tier:
Hawk, Blanka

Low bottom tier:
Cammy

Honda is kind of weird because he gets slaughtered by anyone with a fireball (which is half the cast), but he rapes anyone without a fireball (the other half of the cast), so I just put him at middle tier. I think Hawk and Blanka are bottom tier, but still playable. Cammy…I just feel sorry for her…:sad:

[Koop]

Good stuff NKI. though Ive seen some honda parlor tricks eat fireball characters alive…:tup: :tup:

cammy has potential in the right hands I believe. i took justin on at a VA tournament an he had a mean cammy…

[Khiempossible]

what?? explain. Cammy has some nice pokes and air normals; but that’s about it. she can do her roll over fireball, but that requires godly reaction time. Her DP is about as solid as upkicks but less damage and she only has a couple minor combos. Where do you get potential out of cammy? I don’t play her so could you please elaborate on this.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan
O.Guile can do s.short (not knee) while maintaining a charge, which makes a huge difference against Dhalsim and Blanka (stops slides under SB).

do you mean you spam s.short and then do flash kicks without doing c.short? or do you mean that you can charge down then do a s.short on your way up? cause n.guile can do a s.short on his way up from flash kicks as well.

[nothingxs]

I think Cammy’s limbs in ST are just too small for her to be very effective. In comparison, look at how Vega runs things – in addition to having claw shenanigans…

[Superking]

The PS2 version is no good, because again the character sizes are wrong, the speed is wrong, and lots of little stuff was changed, like O.Sagat being weakened.

It’s the US PS2 version that’s no good, the original JP version is fine.

Though AE is still no ST.

[System_1]

cammy has potential in the right hands I believe

James Chen can still represent, right?

[Ouroborus]

i feel gief is the worst.

what good matchups does he have? none really.

and theres too many characters he gets owned badly by like chun, sim, fei, vega, honda.

yeah, cammy is really lacking in ST compared to her cvs2 incarnation. standing hk is nowhere as good as in cvs2, cannon drills dont go under fbs, blockable high, and it seems harder to space to make it safe.

the good thing is that her standing mk is good, jumping mp is godly (although its easy to sac throw) and her ToD is easy to do.

[Tantin]

James Chen can still represent, right?

Chen made me sad at Evo. I was in his pool and only got a round.

[Ryu1999]

i feel gief is the worst.

what good matchups does he have? none really.

He’s great against Ryu and Bison, two pretty common and upper-tier characters…

[Saotome_Kaneda]

Yeah yeah that sounds delightful but dig it:

Funny how material in a .sig (without any context whatsoever, mind you) can wind up in a random thread eh?

What’s even more funny is he mostly posts in GD and those mods have no problem with the sig. I have no issue with it either, because unless that line of text is kicking your puppy or causing you great mental trauma, it just looks like yet another shock value funny quote from GD.

Now, any further posts on this topic will get deleted/edited on sight. I’ve said it time and time again, if you got beef with someone, fucking PM them. The boards aren’t here for you to vent your personal feelings about another poster, especialy if it isn’t GD.

[NKI]

I was bored at work, and for some reason I decided to translate some of T-Akiba’s site. Peep:

http://nki.combovideos.com/throw.data.html

I didn’t translate all of it; just the part about reversing tick throws.

Most of the stuff he said is exactly what I expected, but there were also some surprises, such as:

-strong evidence in support of sac-throws
-irreversible tick throws in CE and HF
-apparent throw reversals in WW

I have tested all of those things in the past, and I came to the opposite conclusions that he did. I may very well be wrong, or he may be wrong…I dunno. We’ve both been wrong in the past, so who knows…

[System_1]

sac throws are real.

I remember this Honda-Zangief match, where Zangief was knocked down into the corner. Honda timed a HHS on wake up. The Zangief player, instead of blocking it, took the first hit, and grabbed Honda just when the hitstun finished with a SPD.

[jms]

sac throws are real.

I remember this Honda-Zangief match, where Zangief was knocked down into the corner. Honda timed a HHS on wake up. The Zangief player, instead of blocking it, took the first hit, and grabbed Honda just when the hitstun finished with a SPD.

HAHA, yes I remember that one too! That’s the final match in the HF Gamest. That’s not exactly a sac throw though. That’s reversaling a special to stop a non-combo attack. No different than if you reversal dp’d someone in the middle of a botched combo.

[Khiempossible]

I guess that’s the same idea when you manage to throw a Fei out of the third hit of his qcf+p x3 combo?

[jms]

I guess that’s the same idea when you manage to throw a Fei out of the third hit of his qcf+p x3 combo?

Hmmm, well I would call that ‘Fei using wrong strength rekkas.’ If you managed to throw Fei out of the third hit, then he wasn’t comboing rekka x3 correctly.

[Spider-Dan]

You can simulate this with N.Guile by doing neutral s.short and then hold back + s.short x n and the knee won’t come out.

The problem is that you have to lose your charge to do this, and you have to keep hitting short to continue it. So against a Dhalsim who’s trying to hit you when you SB, you’d have to keep resetting your charges and/or spamming shorts. I’d say it’s almost worth taking the hit from a s.short if it means that Guile has to lose both SB and FK charge to do it.

do you mean you spam s.short and then do flash kicks without doing c.short?

No, I mean you can hold back and hit short to stop slides. With N.Guile, you get a knee instead.

[Spider-Dan]

I was thinking of upping them to putfile sometime in a non-ssf2t section…

Less thinking, more upping