I don’t think it’s anywhere near that lop-sided. I’d say 5.5:4.5 ryu/guile. Like I said before, they both have counters for each other. It just comes down to who spaces better. Ryu is trying to space far enough for the tatsumaki over boom but close enough that he doesn’t eat cr. Fierce when Guile finishes the boom. Guile is spacing for the boom/backfist just slightly outside the Ryu range. It comes down to who knows the spacing better and who’s aware of what the opponent is going to do. Guile’s game is harder to play at first, but when you’re looking at tiers it’s irrelevant, it’s just about knowing the game, and the spacing, whomever knows the spacing better wins.
That’s a bad idea against Honda from my experience.
They catch me first with his Ochio (HCB+P) throw.
Knowing and executing are 2 different things, and that HAS to be part of tiering. If executing something is particularly difficult, then it’s harder for you to win; if your winning tactic takes absolutely no complex movements, you are more likely to win.
As far as Honda being able to uchio after landing, this is only true if you fail to counter throw at the correct time. Yes, this takes timing, but it’s just a button press and it’s extremely consistent; this is a standard skill for anyone who claims to know how to play ST remotely well. We can get into arguments about spacing and throw range, but that’s a seperate issue.
The thing about tiers tho, is that we assume both players are of ‘equal skill’. Sure tiers are irrelevant if ur fighting scrubs, my Guile can own up scrub Ryus all day long. But if both players know where the other wants to be space wise it’s a question of which character can get to his space easier and get out of the other’s. That’s where tiers come in. It’s very hard for Guile to reside in that space u mentioned as he has to counter hadoukens and be there for 2seconds to charge his boom. He won’t be exploiting that space for much of the fight. If both players know this fight I’d say it’s more like 7:3 in Ryu’s favour. Ryu has too many ways to score a knockdown on Guile in this match and then move into range.
Guile has to work so much harder to exploit Ryu and even then it’s just one hit. How many times can u backfist Ryu after nullifying a hadouken at point blank range? No more than once per round against any good Ryu. Ryu can hurricane thru sonic boom on reaction.
Ryu has a counter to everything Guile has. For me, his faster no-charge fireball makes him win this match along with the fact that Guile doesn’t have a reliable non flash kick anti-air. Ryu’s optimum range in this fight isn’t where u stated as he can just throw fullscreen hadoukens at guile all day long, guile has problems just keepin up let alone countering.
Guile has a shit reversal which can’t stop Ryu tick throwing him from a jump in. Ryu’s super is too good also. He can also majorly punished failed flashkick reversals… fuckin Ryu got too much ammo in this match. It’s one of my favourites matches to play in ST, me using Guile. Like I say, I win this matchup a lot but I know it’s cos I’m playing against Ryu’s that don’t know how to exploit Guile’s weaknesses.
I’m no expert, can anyone suggest anything Guile can do is this fight?
you can c.Fierce that hurricane kicks approximately 100% of the time. That said I’d try and trade my c.fierce with a jump-in. You’re right about the super though. SUper can fuck up guile pretty hard. If you’re back in the corner. Jump +charge, when he throws another: sonic boom b+Short charge, sonic boom if he throws another fireball or wait to see what he does. You can always block every other fireball so that you can use b+short and sonic boom afterwards. I don’t know. I find it tough, but I’ve seen it done.
EDIT: I just wanted to add that (as I’ve always understood them) tiers are no theoretical win/loss ratio between between equally skilled players, but equally skilled perfect players. Otherwise you’d have different rankings for scrubs. When you do tiers in 3s, you don’t factor the difficulty of how god damn hard it is to use Genei Jin with Yun as opposed to cr.MK xx SA2 xx j.F with Chun-li. You assume the player can do those techniques 100% of the time when you tier them.
call + N - you guys both make really good points. I think guile’s towards + forward is a little bit under-appreciated here. Yeah he forfeits his charge but it works well against ryu’s footsie action. If the ryu player then starts to hesitate with his low RHs or whatever that gives guile more chances to push ryu out into preferable range with the low forward?
It’s a fun match regardless of what x vs. y it would get in a diagram. Ryu, guile, and dic <- any pairing of those three (not incl. mirrorcoughguile matches) makes for some intense street fightin’.
Guile mirror is the best match.
While we’re talking about Guile, did anyone see the matches at GAME41? http://game41.web.infoseek.co.jp/movieroom.htm (second batch, hst)
If anyone could identify the Guile player in the 3rd, 6th, and 7th videos I’d be grateful!
ARITA Ketsushiko, maybe. Yeah he likes using that forward kick. Fighting against ARG? Not so much, I reckon.
He’s got skills, but it looked like he threw away that round against ARG. How many times did he try to punish fake wall dives?? Seemed like after he got baited once he just thought “oh well F dis” and just tried to punish every one of them.
His use of forward kick in his other matches against shotos was good. It’s one of the few ways with Guile that you can play distance games, instead of just sitting hunkered down in low block, letting Ryu/Ken dictate distances and and the flow of the match (resulting in inevitable Guile loss!).
Thanks for ID’ing our Guile player!
Actually it’s b+Forward, not f+forward. It’s pretty good against non throwing characters. Throw will beat it out cleanly. What I wish it did was come out fast enough to stuff lows after jump in. But it doesn’t, and even then it loses to throw.
Translation: http://www.video-opera.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1111
I’ve never heard of any of those guys besides ARG, so I can’t guarantee I translated all their names 100% correctly.
That Guile player used f+forward way more than b+forward. They have slightly different uses. F+forward is excellent for walking into sweep range and being able to attack. For example when you throw a boom, but don’t have quite enough time to walk in for a mixup, walk in and use f+forward from that range.
Guile really isn’t a very good character anymore. He doesn’t have any really clear wins against any characters other than the characters that almost everyone else wins against. He’s been nerfed in subtle ways for a while other characters have been bumped up. Who does he have even a slight edge over? Honda, Hawk, Cammy? Maybe Fei as well? That’s 3 or 4 characters out of 15 with winning matchups. (I Put Zan even) Japanese Guiles tend to play differently than US ones (US players sometimes use O. Guile and with N. Guile rarely use standing forward or roundhouse) but they don’t fare any better.
Honda would be very good without characters with good projectiles. Honda is really a very poorly designed character. Against guys without projectiles the headbutt is really too good of a move. It’s basically 100% safe and invincible anti-ground and anti-air. If Honda has a lead and sits in down/back it’s really an uphill battle.
Part of the problem is that if you guess right against a fireball and jump over you get huge damage, but against Honda even if you walk up then guess a headbutt is coming you usually don’t get a big reward - typically just a jump back attack.
Giving any character a move that is both anti-air and anti-ground and safe when blocked is a bad idea. I can’t think of another move like that in all of SF. It leads to a lot of matches that are just a chore to fight out.
Cough CE shoryukens.
Not invincible, but goddamned annoying all the same.
Jesus christ the CE characters look broken in AE.
Watch the final round of the Ken VS Ryu match. Ryu’s damage/stun power is just wrong.
One 3 hitter did like 60% damage, and dizzied to boot.
http://www.hameko.net/uploader/upload.php
hame_2711.lzh
Some HSF matches between daigo(ryu) and tact(oldguile, supersagat) – these files have been up before but if you haven’t seen them yet scoop 'em up.
EDIT: off-topic but hame_2572.lzh and hame_2720.lzh feature sf3 and kof reenacting in fire pro wrestling. Very silly.
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what do you mean by “it”?
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anakaris?
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as opposed to the throw trading?
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all normals lose to throws
Hmm. In my earlier post I was talking about using the towards+forward from much longer range. Like just approaching the tip of Ryu’s low RH. I’m not sure what’s going on in your scenario but “it” seems ill-advised.
Guile’s b+forward/f+forward. I like b+forward cause it maintains charge, busts lows and has high priority. That’s what I’m talking about. What does Anakaris have to do with anything he’s not even in this game.
You said something about non-throwing characters, Anakaris doesn’t have any normal throws.
I like bubble gum cause it’s sweet and pink!
It IS invincible, and is NOT safe. 
Thanks for the matches nohoho.
Hameko round up! Some juicy shit today. Some of the star cup footage has a curious picture-in-picture format.
http://www.hameko.net/uploader/upload.php
hame_2795.lzh
Star Cup3 Muteki(guile) vs. Aniken
hame_2794.lzh
Star Cup3 Muteki(guile) vs. Tamashima(balrog), Aniken vs. Otohonda
hame_2793.lzh
Star Cup4 Otochun(ryu,honda,chun) vs. A R G(vega)
Chuu-Chuu = chuuashibarai chuuashibarai = two low kicks in a row from chun li
Choo-Choo = the sound a train makes (’’
hame_2792.lzh
YSB(the hugo player?) bonus match video – random highlights
hame_2791.lzh
Star Cup4 Tsuji(fei) vs. Tsunoppi(guile,cammy)
EDIT: f’ing hameko isn’t working for me right now (I jinxed it?) but there’s one more of these files up VTS_01_2: ARG(vega) vs. yuuvega(bison), yuuvega(bison,DJ) vs. Tsunoppi(guile) If the site don’t work just try again some other time. ;_;