Geo: Sweet! Thanks man, appreciate it.
What turbo speed should you play if you play on a DC?
Looking at this chart it still doesn’t answer one major question which is why does Claw get such a ridiculous amount of his throws off? It would seem like he has better throw “priority” but everyone claims that theres no such thing and that its random who gets the throw when both input at the same time.
You might simply have personal experience that makes you feel that way, i.e. getting thrown by claw a lot 
Another thing that has been raised is that walking speed might be a factor; being able to close a short distance very quickly and then throw. (And claw is obviously fast.) Some sort of hybrid measure of walking speed and throw range might be useful.
My “secondary” character at this time is Claw, and from experience I can say that I get wake up throws almost every time, tick throws are much easier, and random situations where both characters are in range and mashing throw almost always work out in my favor. And when I’m playing Bison against Claw this doesn’t hold true so its not like I’m super good at getting off throws or anything.
I’ve heard that walking speed could play a part, but what would that have to do with wake up throws or situations when both characters are in throw range?
Most players just mistime the wakeup. It’s nothing special on claw’s end; he has a very average throw range. For poorly timed tick throws (since optimal tick throws offer no room to breathe except to reversal), since he moves fast, opponents have just a fraction less time to respond. If both players are in throw range and try to throw at the same time, it’s random which one gets precedence. So really, it all comes back to your own experience playing tricks on you. I main claw and the chart is right on point with I’ve experienced.
Hey guys I got one question…
lol no TV atm so I no buy this new SSF2 HD but I got my old Dreamcast out to practice. When I used to play was just me and my friends pretty much always ken/ryu/guille spamming fire balls and dragon/flash kick. Now I try get some better to play on the net.
Just wonder if someone could please add definition of this X in the way it is used on this Dictator combo on the wiki
j.rh, st.lk, cr.mk XX (any strength) scissor kick or fierce psycho crusher
found here http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/M.Bison(ST)
Also…another stupid question…
when perform this cross up must you jump over the head of enemy or is it enough to jump in far enough that you can hit far side of hitbox?
Thanks alot,
Jake
XX means “cancelled into”.
When it comes to normal throws, there is no such thing as throw priority. This has been tested pretty extensively. If both players input a throw on the same frame, it’s random who gets the throw. Here are two situations that come up a lot, misleading people to believe that there is such a thing as throw priority:
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Ken does j.Jab xx air Hurricane Kick, walk up throw. You see it coming from a mile away, but you can’t reversal throw him. The reason for this is because air special moves cause WAY more block stun than air normal moves, and almost everybody tries to reverse too early (while they are still in block stun), so nothing comes out for them, and they get thrown.
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Claw does some jumping move (or cr.Forward, or whatever), walk up throw. Again, you know it’s coming, but Claw seems to get the throw most of the time. This is because Claw’s walking speed is really fast, and people tend to reverse slightly too early (before either one of you is in throw range), so you get a normal move, which gets thrown.
Mashing is extremely unscientific.
Every character in the game gets a free wake-up throw, assuming the opponent is within range and throwable (i.e. not doing a DP or other invincible move).
Very cool, and nice blog, too. :tup:
Since I only see one row per character, I’m assuming that you just used the longest throw range for each character? (SPD for Gief, Strong throw for Boxer, etc?)
You are godlike.
Thanks! Yes, I only used the throw/hold with the longest range per the T.Akiba data.
I’m assuming then that the extreme difficulty in meaty attacking Claw has to do with his wake up speed and not due to any factor related to his throw?
I’ve got a question concerning the frame data listed here.
http://nki.combovideos.com/flame.html
the numbers reflect startup (white) active red hitting frames (red) recovery (white)
what I’m curious about, and because I couldn’t find it anywhere on the page (albeit I didn’t look all that hard) is what is the hitstun/blockstun provided by these moves. i.e. when my s.jab hits the opponent I wait 2 frames for it to start, it hits on the third frame then I watch 6 frames of recovery, but just how long is my opponent in block stun? I can calculate the advantage/disadvantage of every move no problem afterwards.
thanks
Sorry, but I just had to bump this post from 2005 
Oh heh I didn’t see this post earlier this month. It really did take me a long ass time to get some confidence in all 16 matchups. Meeting Bill “Ehonda” in Philly two years later was a big turning point.
chouchou - When you’re just getting started I think it’s easier to end with towards instead of down-towards. You can do a hadouken right? Just tap forward then do that motion. There’s no trick beyond that just have to do it very quickly. EDIT: when did you edit your post? haha I’m confused. Anyway F+QCF punch works just fine like I say I recommend starting with that.
uh, yeah, sorry to interrupt, but who’s top teir in st? I really don’t know.
Is it chun li? blanka?
Akuma would be if he wasn’t perma banned.
Sorry, this kind of made me smile.
I’ll let someone more experienced in ST answer. But I know one thing… Chun-Li and Blanka aren’t top.
ST top tier is O.Sagat, Dhalsim, Boxer, Claw and maybe Chun-li and Dictator.
Why is dhalsim top? range? teleportation? he’s rather slow
and his hitboxes extend, so he can be punishable… and old tiger butt… Really? People really can’t dodge fireballs. (Isn’t he banned?)
It’s kinda funny thinking about that, because it reminds me of people who cannot dodge pit’s arrows in smash. Just roll you idiots, ROLL! Also reminds me of how all the tops in smash are usually the glitchiest/fastest/ most broken ch’s.
See, that kind of thinking is why Dhalsim is top. People are so busy thinking about how punishable he is, they’re waiting for an opportunity they never get, so Dhalsim’s just drilling away.
Here’s the basic gamut… fireballs don’t work on Dhalsim 'cause he can generally punish you at his leisure. He has range and he makes you think. (Okay, DP my limbs, I’ll just pull them back then hit you.) His super is one of the best in the game. (It can be argued that it is, in fact, the best, although Boxer is a serious contender). And he actually does quite a bit of damage. Let’s not forget how good his throw shenanigans are. You’re overthinking the issue if you think he’s not so good.
Old Sagat is “soft banned” in Japan, meaning if you pick him, people won’t play you, which is generally a way of shunning you into picking something else. He’s not actually banned.
His fireballs are VERY fast, but he also has a very fast, very damaging uppercut (compared to New Sagat’s unreliable multi-hit version) and his standing kicks can be cancelled at any time if they connect, plus he still has his crazy jump-in angles. Add that to the already pumped up speed of Super Turbo (a factor that cannot be ignored), and you have quite a solid character.
What’s the easiest/best ch for a new player to learn in st? I’m trying to teach my dad. He prefers a very offensive play style and dosen’t like to block or do fireballs.
His faves are americans, ie ken rog and guile. I’m trying to teach him guile… tho yes, he is a turtle. The only chs I can think of for him would be rog and fei, maybe cammy.
I think he’d really like ken if I taught him to fireball n whatnot.
And yes, all I was doing was ranting on those two chs (dhal and tiger!TIGER!). Typically I don’t wait on dhalsim, I just go blitzkreig on him since all he can do up close is noogie you. Same with Sagat (It’s SAH got, Sirlin, SAH got). Typically the cpu sagat freaks on you when you get close (espec in alpha) All you have to fear is anm upper knee or physial. Personally speaking st is pretty durn balanced in pvp.