Where can I find that frame data?
This thread moves too fast to keep up with :o
I’m having a lot of trouble with (and try to figure this one out…) Chun vs. Dictator. I always felt like Chun should win this fight, and NKI mentions it as one of the advantageous matchups in the wiki, but I can’t make it come together.
I’m in control for most of the match, but if I give that control away just once I have a lot of trouble dealing with his pressure and might be down to 20% life before I have any breathing room at all. I have some really specific questions about this:
For the Dic player in question, his strings look something like:
Scissor kick, close short x n, then guess between throw or low forward into scissor kick, repeat.
I’m not incredibly familiar with Dic, so that might not be what’s going on – it just looks like that.
The problem I have with this is in the event that I actually correctly guess he’s going to throw I can get out, but if he just does lather-rinse-repeat rushdown strings and I don’t have meter I have no idea what to do.
I’d appreciate any advice anyone has on this matchup. If I don’t beat Dic to super and preferably kill him before he gets his, my odds of winning are very low – and it’s usually a slow, grueling loss too…:sad:
VS CE Bison, just realized you’re asking about ST though
The traps are basic, 2 moves, scissor kick, repeat. The break point is after the 2 moves, you can either do a special move to get out, or a regular move. Generally a regular move like standing jab is low risk, special move is a good guaranteed way out if they actually do the scissor kick. The throw usually occurs after the scissor kick, or they go into 2 regular move pattern. So what I recommend is attempting a throw after the scissor kick, if that fails, then do a standing jab after the 2 attacks. If your jab connects you can jump toward him while he is falling and lock him down. If your jab whiffs since he waited, jump straight up/back/toward depending on your choice of strat, in either case you’ve escaped the precarious position.
If you’re talking about CE Dictator his scissor kick trap can be tough to get out of.
When he does the scissor kick you can try to reverse it with either the upkick or her spinning bird kick/helicopter kick. I think the helicopter kick is probably better it should also reverse the throw because if you miss with the helicopter kick you’ll still probably trade or tag him on the way down, but if you miss with the upkick, you’re left wide open.
Chun’s jumping forward kick beats his psycho crusher clean with the right distancing. If you jump backwards with forward, it should stuff any repeated psycho crusher tactics. Also CE Dictator doesn’t have a real anti air answer for Chun’s jumping forward, ST Dictator can use standing fierce to try and stuff it which will end up most likely in a trade in his favor. CE Dictator might try to trade hits or go under you with a slow psycho crusher. But for the most part, at full screen distance you can jump on him for free.
Then if you knock him down just use down forward roundhouse to set up throw attempts. Or low forward-throw, or low forward-low roundhouse, or low forward-low fierce.
Also Chun’s Lightning Legs stops all of Dictator’s Charge attack at close range.
You also want to keep throwing fireballs to stop his charge moves, unless you see him waiting in crouch for that head stomp. You can reverse the head stomp with an air throw or with any other jumping attack. If Dictator tries to just jump at you, your best bet is to try to walk under him and throw. Also up close forward should reverse him cleanly. You can try far standing roundhouse, but you have to do it pretty early, otherwise you might just trade. Low roundhouse will work if he is using an early jump attack, but it’s risky because if he does a late jump attack I think it will hit you clean. Same thing goes for far standing forward. Two more anti airs are jump straight up short and roundhouse.
You mentioned doing fireballs from full screen away so i figured there would be no difference whether you do it from B or DB.
All i’m saying is that “Charge DB, B, F (hold for a while), P” will let you move further than “Charge DB, F (hold for a while), P” because in the second case some of those F frames are wasted on standing up animation where you don’t actually move forward.
Btw, i’m in the valley so Pomona is far. If FFA gets an SFAE machine we can meet up there. I’ll probably be there this Friday night, so i’ll see what they’ve got. Usually i go Friday or Saturday night, once every week or two.
I remember Jeff Schaeffer talking about this once with Sagat, he said there were two kinds of fireballs with Sagat: a fireball where you stand still and then a fireball where you inch forward. To do the fireball where you inch forward is it just a matter of taking a step and then doing a fireball or is there a fireball motion that will actually advance you forward?
I didn’t really appreciate what he was saying at the time, but now I get it. If you inch forward with Sagat’s fireball you’re slowly pressuring your opponent into the corner.
Cool. I just took a look at your website. I guess you’re a CvS2 stud as well, maybe you can show me how to freaking roll cancel. I was trying it for awhile and I eventually just gave up on it and that game.
If not that, then possibly karacanceling an attack into a fireball.
I thought FFA had a SFAE machine a long time ago(last summer?). In any event, if a bunch of people are going Friday maybe I’ll go too. Although, I do usually go out drinking on Fridays, so who knows? :wgrin:
majestros is right. that vid is nuts. some of it was old like DJ upkicks to super and the back turned hits (NKI did a similar vid featuring backturned crystal shards). One thing I did learn was ken super link after hurricane kicks. How hard is the timing on this link? impossible? reasonable? special conditions only? what version of the kicks?
the last guile one was my favourite. I’ve never seen 4 sonic booms and a flashkick in a single combo.
Check the very first post in this thread. :tup:
Although they look very similar, Dic actually has two st.Shorts: close and far. The close st.Short is really good, because it recovers so fast, and he can combo them together. The far st.Short is not that great because it has a lot of recovery and he can’t link after it.
He can only do two or three close st.Shorts to Chun, then he is pushed back too far and the far st.Short comes out. He can not combo far st.Short into cr.Forward, so if he tries to do any kind of guessing game after the far st.Short, just throw him. Also, he can’t keep stringing far st.Shorts together without walking towards you, and you can throw or lightning legs between them.
Alternatively, you could also just use lightning legs or fireball to stuff/trade with his Scissor Kicks, which would be my recommendation. After you knock him down, do meaty D/F+RH. Unless he has meter, he’ll be forced to block. Follow that up with either throw or [cr.Forward, cr.RH] and continue to rush him down.
If a remember correctly, he only does that combo against WW Gief, and there’s probably a reason for that.
Nope. This was in ST and it was performed on both n.blanka and n.zangief.
There is an error in the walking data ranks. It is listed as rank …9 13 14 15 16, should be …9 13 15 16 17. Unless there is a character that can walk backward and not forward considering the last rank for forward is 16 but its 17 for backward.
If i’m reading it correctly, the frame data is listed as startup-active-recovery. Is there any frame advantage/disadvantage information available?
Good job with everything that was done so far.
They’re very cool, but for the most part completely useless in play. In fact most of them would be extremely difficult to get off on someone who volunteered to be smashed. lol.
Because combos in st are difficult to do and it seems like these type of vids are more of cool art form than anything else. It is pretty cool to see that the game has a following that people are able to figure out such extreme tactics and combos. I would love to see some videos with SF gltches too, that would be interesting. Anyway, Awsome vid!
- Alex
Probably be pretty good to see a vid of practical combos. I don’t know why there aren’t any as its great for someone starting out or trying to learn that cool dizzy crossup combo. It all good and well reading how so and so combo is performed but sometimes it’d be nice to actually see it in action to help your timing.
There is a cool set of glitch videos on the yoga book hyper DVD.
Sorry about that. I’ll fix it when I get home.
Not yet, but hopefully in the future. :tup:
Just wait until Vegas…
The reason nobody has made a video of practical combos is because it would be all sorts of boring. Even the people who try to make them get bored and start throwing fancy stuff in there.
Probably the best way to do it would be as a website with screenshots of each of the moves and maybe a link to the individual video clip in case they want to see it in action. That way you can view stuff by character and you don’t have to skip around in a 5-minute video to try to find what you need.
I disagree, for alot of players it may be more exciting and useful. I think a practical combo video of things that are not too obvious would be greatly appreciated.
- Alex
I think you could get away with making a situational practical combo video, like showing how to punish certain things with maximum damage. But then you may as well make a tactics video. Personally i think a clear web page reference for practical combos is more useful than a video because it takes less time to find what you’re looking for.