The bait has been around longer than Valle. You really have little reason to guess. While in the air the motion is being done so just watch the opponent upon landing to decide to hit the button. Hella common bait and it’s not only Sagat.
I guess this wasn’t used at ALL in NorCal. heheh Not surprised:P
Just like to say i had an excellent set of CE games with Brian “wolfe’s reversal king buddy” on kaillera. He came out on top, but i managed to sneak in 3 or 4 perfects on him. Real close games all round. Wish i would of recorded em now, cause some of the games were excellent. Just sorry we got disconnected. If your reading Brian, great games. You’ll have to get ST working on your comp so we can have some real matches.
I’ve used it, i was just saying its something valle does still. I still use it with my sagat in a variation. Lots of old school nor cal did similar shit with ryu etc.
Nor cal was the mecca of st, i’d be surprised if you knew 1/10th the shit we knew back then =P
I may have to give you that, dammit! SoCal started chillin’ around then. This is AE though and SoCal was the mecca prior so, we’re all going to have some intense matches goin’ on for sure!
BTW, I don’t know if you ever got that message about Honda and Sim but, though it’s a decent match I would give Honda a slight edge but, what do you two think?
honda can do ok unless the sim is well trained, then he has no chance at all.
Agreed, but one screw up from 'Sim can leave him in a lot of trouble if Honda gets close enough to start command throw mix-ups.
Yup but its the same for most chars vs honda. Not very easy to mess up vs him as opposed to someone like balrog.
I have a question of my own which i cant solve in training mode…
Does anyone know how balrog does combos involving 2 dash with short or short dash into super when the short hits? I’ve seen various vids of multiple charge moves being used without enough charge time between them. Whats the trick to this?
off hand (if inputs are the same as they are in SFEX), is that you are able to hold back 8 frames after you hit forward to press punch. Which would give you another 8 or so frames to charge back,
back (60 frames)
forward (1 frame)
back (7 frames)
back+short (53 frames)
foward (1 frame)
back (1 frame)
forward+fierce (1 frame)
Or if it hits really quick you might be able to do this
back (60 frames)
forward+short (1frame)
back (9 frames)
forward (8frames)
fierce (1+frames)
essentially using the first motion to perform the first part of the super. But thats just a theory.
I don’t play charge characters as much as others, so I may be off on this, but I believe you can execute your charge move by pressing back + button. And, if I recall correctly, this is the key to getting a little bit more charge time to allow combos like that to happen. So, for instance:
charge back
forward (no button)
back + button
…as move is ending
forward + button
I’m not sure how many frames you can hold back before pressing the button(probably not many), but I think in certain scenarios it’s enough to make new combos possible.
Maj can probably answer better than I, but we talked about this a couple pages back.
If you do say jab->rush, you get more charge time in than just doing a rush. It doesn’t seem like that should be the case but it is.
This is because when someone is hit in SF games the game animation stops for a bit. (This is the most apparent in the 3 series, but it happens in all games) This is why whiff low shorts look so much faster than low shorts that hit.
So when you do something like jab->rush, after you input the jab->rush and then hold down/back onscreen your character is still hitting with jab and hasn’t even started the rush animation yet. So you get to charge longer than you would otherwise because you not only charge for the full duration of the rush but also for some of the jab hit duration.
The particular combo I’ve seen is short rush, standing short (I think, this was HF rog but I think it is standing short and not jab), short rush. I have no idea how tight the timing on that is - pretty tight I imagine.
I cannot confirm it’s correctness, but i just remembered seeing it a long time ago about precharging specials (point 1)
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12960
Or if thats not enough time, maybe that + whatever maj is talking about or something.
(about the kkk thing with vega backflips on the previous page)
Were you holding another kick down when you pressed kkk? At least in all the games I tested having a second button with the same command listed to it won’t press a button twice, so if you are holding roundhouse, the kkk will only register as pressing the two other kicks. In a somewhat related note, i’ve managed to get shoryukens with Akuma in a3 and cvs2 using ppp, and i’m pretty sure I wasn’t holding other buttons. It’s very rare, like once or twice a year that I see it. Just leads me to believe that ppp/kkk buttons aren’t completely accurate.
I look forward to something going on the Dhalsim page. So far i’m limited to mimicking the evo west vids.
I’d like to know, what are Sim’s anti-air options, other than roundhouse before they jump. Take the hit -> noogies isn’t reliable(just really good when it works), he doesn’t seem to have any jumping moves that would work well as his jump isn’t fast enough, I wasn’t having much success with back+fierce or jab, and slide seems random. This was mostly against Chibi’s Chun-Li.
3P/3K in CvS2/HSF makes you do FP/RH respectively for both games, some of the others force Jab/Short. It depends on how the game handles overlapping commands and shit. I’ll post more later when I remember the real reasons.
Vs Chun li anti airs
Standing strong close if she is above or coming in close to your head
from a distance use jumping back and fierce it takes timing to learn how to use properly. When you’re cornered and she is jumping in near your head you can slide under her and throw her.
If you dont got room to do either of those, block.
I have no idea how to do to dash with short in a row, but to short dash into super you do it charge back, towards + short, back, towards + punch (just like the same command as when the short dash whiffs and you go into super, im pretty sure i seen you use it in your vids) anyway the motion is exactly the same, but if the short dash hits the timing is just 100x harder than if it had whiffed.
ST Balrog uses the same charge to do both the rush and the super. The command looks like:
Charge DB, F+LK, B, F+P
To get a feel for the timing, just try doing the super by itself using the slowest possible motions. You’ll notice that the game is really lenient with the command. Rog’s LK Dash Upper is 25 frames total and LP Dash Straight is 29 frames total. Both of those can fit comfortably within the acceptable command window for the super. Of course this is an ST-only thing, because most other Capcom games only let you use the same charge for one move. But multiple uses of the same charge are all over the place in ST, most notably with Chun Li’s fireball into super.
The timing for this becomes way more difficult if Rog’s Dash Upper connects, because that adds a bunch of extra frames to the animation. That “25 frames total” turns into at least 35 frames total, which means you have to space out your super inputs with even more precision. Doing whiff Dash Upper into super is practical but combo’ing Dash Upper into super is TZW material. You can do it in Training Mode maybe one out of 50 tries but don’t expect to land it in a match. I’m pretty sure combo’ing Dash Straight into super is impossible, or at least requires a specialized setup. Getting the super to come out after the Dash Upper connects is actually kinda manageable once you get used to the timing, but getting it to combo is really difficult because it’s like a 2 or 3 frame link. It helps to push all the punch/kick buttons like you’re doing a reversal.
Then there’s the subject of CE/HF Balrog. His Dash Uppers seem to give him waaaay more frame advantage than their ST counterparts, so he has time to do s.LK xx LK Dash Upper, pause for a split second, and still combo another s.LK xx Dash Upper. To maximize your chances of landing this combo, use the following command:
Charge DB,
B+LK, F, Charge B+LK, (do this part as quickly as possible to minimize recharge delay)
wait a split-second after the Dash Upper finishes
B+LK,
allow the s.LK to connect and wait out a portion of the impact freeze while charging
F+LK
If you optimize everything, CE/HF Rog can actually use impact freeze on the s.LK and the frame advantage on the LK Dash Upper to do “s.LK xx LK Dash Upper, LK Dash Upper” as a 3-hit combo, but it’s not practical at all. Of course, combo’ing two LK Dash Uppers in a row is impossible without the preceding normal move to extend charge time. Strangely enough, there’s some old HF tutorial video on ComboVideos.com that has this combo, but they actually fuck it up because it’s too difficult. If you look closely, you can see the opponent recovering from hit stun before the second Dash Upper connects.
If you haven’t seen this video yet, it does a great job of showing all of the charge tricks in ST taken to impractical extremes:
http://page.freett.com/zerokoubou/movie.htm
Now if you want to get into a little bit more detail … Sorry guys, you are not asking for a short or straightforward discussion. Most charge tricks are very simple, but the restrictions/overlaps are fairly arbitrary and not completely sorted out. Some charge tricks can be combined with others, but many don’t let you mix-and-match. Keeping track of it all is a challenge.
Most of my experience is with Guile, since i play Shotos in almost every game and usually avoid charge characters. One of the restrictions i referenced is that you can’t precharge the same move. So if you use ShinjiGohan’s suggested method of tapping forward then holding back for 7 frames before you complete the special move command with a button, those 7 frames don’t count towards the next Sonic Boom. In terms of practical match play, it’s still a good idea to use this method because otherwise you lose charge frames while you are moving the stick from F+P to DB. If you do F then DB+P, you start recharging immediately without any gap. Now, it seems like those 7 frames do count towards a Flash Kick charge. Unfortunately since Guile only has two special moves, i’m not sure whether this means that you can’t precharge the same move or the same direction twice in a row.
The whole “impact freeze” exploit bypasses the “same move twice” limitation because technically you complete the command for the first one while your character is frozen in impact animation. It lets you recharge as soon as you complete the command with a button press. Since you’re stuck in impact freeze, then it could take up to 12 frames between when you complete the command for the special move and when the special move actually starts up. In this situation, you get full credit for those 12 frames, or however many you managed to collect depending on the accuracy of your execution.
Thanks, exactly the information I was looking for.
Anyone know where I can download the SBO ST matches featuring Daigo, Otochun and some Guile player?
Link fails btw.
I think theres some of them at orochinagi.com in the downloads section. I think the guile player is kurahashi?