Those large stages (and SMW Yoshi Island) screw em over. Sonic’s good no matter where you are.
I dunno, I think Warioman and Sonic are neck and neck. Warioman can be more devastating, but a lot more skill is needed.
let CPU sonic get the smash ball…watch him fuck you up
Jigglypuff gets my vote if the stage is huge for worst, luigi gets the WTF award, snake for coolest, yoshi for the jackie chan award
this shouldnt even be a contest, all you have to do is run into people, warioman you have to press buttons
He did not have fun with this thing…
Lol. Wolf was/is my main
Luigi’s final smash is actually god like. It’s not the best in the game but anyone foolish enough to try to run away while jumping over a pit or hanging off the ledge has a high chance of dying without Luigi having to do anything. Not to mention Shinsho’s KO potential increases by like 40% in the negative zone.
Olimar’s Final Smash is my shit.
edit: read that backwards.
However, Shit like smashball just opens up an avenue of new complaints. Seriously, why should you need to have prerequisite character knowledge to use the one character you main.
it’s as horrible as being shiek and then hitting down b with no way to undo your error.
Does it let him turn into an octopus?
No?
Sucks bro G&W all the way.
Yeah Zero suit Samus got intense if the player behind her knew what he was doing. . She was my second favorite in Brawl.
That pressure game just reminds me of Cammy.
With a badass pistol whip. 
I will say this, whomever faces me will have a tough time because I play with the brutal ass items only.
Aka bombs, mega shrooms, homerun bats, explosive crates, smashballs, pokeballs, shells, smart bombs, sticky bombs, warp stars, bumpers, icees or whatever that shits called, no capsules… Just raw ass items.
Yeah, but once you learn how to deal with the Landmaster, it’s fairly weak, Especially in the face of Wario/Sonic/Pikachu/ROB/G&W, as you have no mobility. It’s a game of chicken that’s largely against the favor of the Landmaster. When it first drops, you jump onto the cockpit and short hop repeatedly for a moment. If they fly, run towards the cannon and either bait them to drop again so they can fire/roll. If they continue to fly, drop through the cannon (yes, you can do that - the cannon counts as a thin platform) and wait for them to land again, upon which you start the process over. If they don’t fly, be prepared to avoid the inevitable roll, which does have a great deal of time before a hitbox starts, but buffering in off the short hops you were doing will make it a bit easier.
For DK, if you are a good enough user of rhythm games, it’s nigh impossible to avoid unless you’re on the super large stages (75m/NPC). Mind you, it requires that perfect rhythm, but I’ve been on the receiving end of that by someone who can do so enough times to know that there is no escaping it.
Ice Climbers is bad, yes. It’s bad in that they’ll never get a kill off it and it actively fucks them over from being able to continue to fight. You know what, though? The opponent is gonna have a hell of a time not touching the iceberg left and right (most stages impossible), which makes it a really good setup Final Smash due to the sheer damage you take when touching it. They won’t get a kill from it, but they’ve likely racked 60-90% on you before it’s over. I’d say it’s only slightly worse than Olimar’s.
Lucario’s is bad once you know what to do against it. Until you understand how to avoid it, though, it’s likely to kill, yes. The problem is that it’s slow. I mean REAL slow. The second you see Lucario pop up, you make for the highest point next to him, wait for him to steer it your direction, then fall through perpendicular and air dodge through it, then book it the other way. Lucario will not have enough time to catch you. Even if he did, it’s so slow moving that you’d have time to get high the other way and repeat the process.
That’s the online equivalent of having your friend pull out your controller.
If no one has any control it’s just a luck element. I get that it’s fair in the sense that if no one has control everyone is on an equal footing but if you get a hammer and I get a fan does that make you better or does that make you luckier?
Wrong, X-factor is a part of the character, they use it they pose they flash red.
I’m in the same boat. I love the debate. Don’t have to be all pissy about it, it’s not like I’m insulting your religion or something. Jeez.
Colonel-Gilgamesh: Your points near the start of page 66 (on a default posts-per-page display) are interesting, and have given me reason to consider a ‘middle ground.’ I’m willing to envision a competitive-oriented Smash 4 where items are on, where most stages are allowed, and so on. Yes, there are some I will absolutely want to see gone no matter what (items that have too much impact on the match or lead to ‘not fun’ situations like the invincibility Starman, excessively fast auto-scrolling levels, too much random crap flying around the stage, etc.)… but I think I could branch out some when we see Smash 4 released.
Really? Cool. I never noticed that. This addresses the second of my three major concerns about items in Smash, because ‘lololol random explosive crap fell on me and I lost because of it’ happened way too often. If that’s so easily fixed, then this part of my dislike for items is resolved very well.
That still leaves that they present some degree of inequality in the match inherently (someone mentioned even the mundane ray gun being an issue in this regard), but… I don’t know, maybe it’s not too big a deal. Maybe I can live with it. When Smash 4 comes out I will at least give it a try. Maybe there really is a middle ground that leaves these important aspects of the series intact without turning the game into a bunch of Mario Kart-esque blue shell nonsense or complete insanity. Injustice left me open to the idea. There might be some things that do need to be ‘banned’, but perhaps it’s not every single thing either.
So Gilgamesh and Pimpus (Edit, oversight in original text: And Cyntalan), thank you for your thoughts!
I don’t understand why people don’t like random. Try playing Samus who has no fucking knockout power, slow weak attacks, and then have such a weak sense of gravity that you get knocked up to easily, ie your to fucking light and floaty.
ill play with items for fun, but if you pop off on me after you won we gotta no item FD it
I am already confirmed best WFT player…
A part of the problem the Smash community has regarding items is how they’ve painted themselves into a corner regarding the very basics of their format. 4 stocks/8 minutes/Best Of 3 is fine for a no item match. But when you introduce items into play, that fear of “random” can cause a big upset. It’s why All-Brawl went the route of 2 Stock/3 Minutes best of 5. I still don’t agree 3 minutes is enough (should be 4), but I think the increased win requirements are a better balance in terms of gerrymandering a set. This even lessens the blow of that “random” explosion or whatever they all wanna complain about. It also makes for faster games.
Speaking of faster games, my GOD how convoluted it’s become. All these blind picks, counter picks, strike outs, etc. make matches go on forever. It’s sad that even CvS2 can finish a set faster. Don’t even get me started on how slow Smashboards’ subcommunity of Item Standard Play goes. I commend them for at least trying, but with so many things having to change between each round, it’s counterproductive. This is what comes from trying to ADD items back in rather than remove shit slowly.
One thing I really hope they do with Smash 4 is change how Sudden Death works. The whole “reset + everyone’s at 300%” is dumb on many levels. Instead, I think it should just go into that mode without any delay, with a slow climb of % (perhaps 1-5% per second), and then have the bob-omb’s drop. So many silly things that would otherwise radically swing a match if you used SD over % victory (such as that “I went off the top but time ran out before I died, haha, sudden death, we’re now totally even!” shit) can be resolved appropriately.
All this arguing is irrelevant, though I appreciate Cyntalan’s, sonichuman’s, and po pimpus’s well explained posts and attempts at moderation rather than extremism.
When Smash 4 launches, as far as SRK goes the item and itemless leagues will coexist happily as equals and anyone that tries to start some apartheid shit and/or consistently whine about why the other league is ass and their’s is more skill based will be banned so GTFO with that shit now because we ain’t having it come launch time.
Wiz, did you hijack zoo’s account? 'cause I’m confused why zoo would say these things otherwise… 
Well, it’s not irrelevant if it leads somewhere. I’m glad for the discussion; I was in the “grrr no items” camp, but had lingering doubts over how the typical Smashboards arrangement works out in actual play (Edit: And based on what Cyntalan had to say about Smash sets now taking longer than CvS2 sets, apparently my doubts were well-founded?). Hearing what others had to say lead to a conclusion where I might have more fun. That doesn’t make it a matter of ‘right or wrong’, but rather ‘what makes me happier’… and I’ll gladly take it.