I have one of these and I’ve played fighters on it, but can’t comment on lag other than it’s not so obviously terrible that you notice it right away. Also you can’t adjust volume (the keys for it are hotkeys for the phone’s output volume, not for the speakers) so it either plays at full blast or you’ll need to bring speakers and run analog to them (well, I guess a modder could add a pot to adjust the volume). Battery life is nice and the fact that it’s battery powered at all helps out. My only real gripe is I can’t balance it on top of my PS3 (not without doing something ghetto like sticking the PS3 into something flat) but that’s a fault of the PS3 itself. This is getting a bit O/T so if you have more questions PM me so we don’t clutter this up.
Well, that’s all very encouraging. I’m going to have to pick one up and do an official lag test on it. I read about the lack of audio adjustment, but not having one, I didn’t really have a clue on workarounds.
I’m currently looking for a 32" TV with low input lag. I tried going through the list in the first post, but I’m having trouble finding any of the 16ms or less TVs to buy anywhere. (Problem I have with a lot of the lists I’ve found.) Sometimes I find ones with similar model numbers, but I have no idea what kind of input lag they would have. Does anyone know of a good low input lag (<16ms) that is currently available to buy?
@Spekio you can check out www.displaylag.com and filter by the size you’re looking for. They generally provide Amazon links, or some alternative.
I had checked that site, but the lowest input lag listed for a 32" on that site was 26ms. They don’t even have anything listed with <16ms between 28" to 40".
Its all volunteer based testing, and those volunteers have limited funds. You going to have gaps in the data.
16 ms or 26 ms, guy won’t even notice the difference between 1 or 2 frames of lag. Laggy TV is a laggy TV, and in 32 inch you might as well by a 1 frame monitor at that point.
Also, the reason they don’t have anything listed is because in modern TV land, a 1 frame of lag TV doesn’t exist other than a Sony LCD, which is only 1 out of hundreds available today. Dump on that noise.
0, 1 and 2 input delay frames are absolutely easily noticeable in my case.
I have a 32LM3400 low profile LED TV with 3D, and it has less than 1 frame of input delay. Trust me, since vendors in the US mostly offer high end models only people don’t have a chance to check these out but low end TVs have low delay, ideal for games.
I understand you guys up there don’t have much access to low end TVs but accepting 30ms delay? 2 frames is a world of delay, add to that 30ms from online and you’ve got delay 5, totally awful.
This model is discontinued anyway I think… so… but there must be low end models that match this. In general, low end LGs have always proved to have almost no delay in my case. My other LG has even less delay than this one (feels like 3 or 4ms less than this one)
Playing Resogun on the PS4 with this TV almost feels like playing on my old NES on my 90s TV.
Are you superhuman? according to the theories of Phi phenomenon (in the past incorrectly called Persistence of vision)
states that it should be humanly impossible to notice actual 1 or 2 frames of delay.
I don’t know about theories but I can easily differentiate the time it takes for stuff to happen with 0, 1 and 2 delay frames, I mean the difference between 0 and 2 frames changes how you play (in a fighting game) completely and takes away a lot of the fun.
My TV set actually has a delay problem: (while labelled as PC) the last HDMI port you’ve connected is the one that gets the less delay. The other one (port 1 or 2 doesn’t matter though, only thing that matters is which one you’ve connected before or recently) gets a 1 and a half more delay, and that is a world of delay. Even the PS4 menu feels different.
Quoting this here before you edit it out. BTW, DisplayLag.com always tests using the fastest input method, whether it be set to PC mode or Game mode or whether or not a TV even offers those options.
You’re so full of it. You know what, I can prove it right now. The display you’re using is 35 ms of input lag, and don’t try to pull some 32 vs 42 size non-sense, them shits all use the same components across size models. That’s technically 3 frames man. Haha!!
2012 42" LG 42LM3400 1080p 60hz 3D LED HDTV BTM 35ms
Look, I’ve been gaming on a CRT all my damn life until the last year. That’s 32 years of CRT gaming. I can’t fucking tell the difference between 1 and 2 frames of lag, when I play on a ASUS monitor my only gripe is how shitty they look. I can tell the difference at 4 to 5 frames of lag, but the difference is incredibly small and doesn’t affect my gaming much.
To put it into perspective for you, 2/60th’s of a second (which is 2 frames of lag) is equal to missing 1 frame of animation in a 30 fps game. I bet you anything I could do a double blind test and 95% of humans tested wouldn’t be able to see a single dropped frame in a 30 fps game. Let alone a 60 fps game that is much smoother, no human will ever notice that, ever.
when adrenalin is rushing and you are somebody with good working reflexes, 1 frame should be noticable, barely bu still noticable.
a friend of mine bought this 1ms lag monitor from benq i believe, but it’s smaller than 30 inches. is 1ms even possible on modern full hd monitors? and something more important, are there any tv’s full hd with at least 40 inches that are 1ms lag?
btw, there’s 100ms in a second, right? how can there be tv’s with 20 to 30ms of lag. that at least 12 frames of lag or more.
You need to check yo math bruddah.
16.7 ms = 1 frame of lag
1 sec = 60 frames
60 * 16.7ms = 1002 ms
No digital display in the world is 1 ms of lag. 1 ms is also IMPOSSIBLE for a human to see. 1 frame is well below the ability of a human to discern lag. The threshold is about 70 ms which is 5 to 6 frames of lag, and it’s pretty minute, though noticeable to a slight degree. I have several low lag CRT displays (as low as it gets, it wasn’t until the world decided to move on from CRT that lag became an issue) and there is only a slight difference compared to another display I have with 4 to 5 frames of lag in low processing mode and 8 frames in all the bells and whistles of processing mode. 4 to 5 frames is noticeable, slightly. 8 frames is extremely noticeable, and not very fun to use, but is somewhat functional.
20 to 30 ms of lag is only 1 to 2 frames, not 12.
Again what you claiming is not humanly possible. No Human alive can notice 1/30th of a second, so forget 1/60th of a second.
Bull Shit. No amount of adrenalin is going to give you super human sight and perception.
If what is saying is true than you no longer notice smooth motion in games, movies or TV, just a series of static images with each frame slightly different then the next.
If what you are saying is true, every screen in the world would look like they are flickering to you, and everyone else would be in slow motion.
This Wiki article touches the psychological reasons why your claim is false.
And with Moonchilde’s math, you are telling us you notice 1/1002nd of a second
The only animals known to do that are insects.
I was going to make this point myself. If people could really see the difference between 1 and 2 frames of lag then they wouldn’t be able to see motion on displays. LCD would be a series of static images with pixel smear between them and plasma/CRT would be full black screens between each image.
Yes, we can see lag especially in motion control games, but not at that level. These claims are beyond ridiculous.
Right, if people could they’d be able to detect when a game that runs at 30 fps drops to 29 for a single frame and then back to 30 fps. No one can, so that is why there are machines that do that for us to count frames for web sites like Digital Foundry and why games will come with FPS bench marks. All these utilities would be meaningless.
I’m not even touching the adrenaline thing. All you have to do to prove that instance wrong is ask someone who was under an adrenaline rush about the details of that last 5 seconds of their life and watch the blank look on their face.
thanx, didn’t know 1000ms was 1 second.
also you claim about those 2 frames and 1 frame not noticable is bs. you realise that by the time it takes a normal person to see a light go on, a trained fighter in that same amount of time can register the light go on, hit that light with a punch, pull his punch back and start looking for where the next light on said dummy will light. do you realise just how big of a difference between humans there is? a trained person can cut a bbgun bullet with a samuarai sword with the sword sheeted, that normal person you talking about aint worth shit. who the fuck did they use when measuring these “normal” people? 40 year old nerds who have never exercised in teir lives? wiki is shit at times, this is one of them. normal people wouldn’t have even existed if we werent the dominant species on earth, mankind in general is weak as fuck. you should never compare normal humans with people who dont suck.
You read too many manga, dude. No human is cutting BB’s shot from a gun with a sheathed Katana, you are fucking nuts. Trained fighters hitting lights doesn’t mean that they are hitting the light the second it goes on, they will still take time to hit it even if it is 1 second. Think about how fast we press buttons during mash moves, even the best players are only hitting about 14 to 15 inputs per second which is 1 button press every 4 frames and these are guys who can mash like crazy, and mashing buttons is much less physical movement than punching something.
Obviously at this point you are trolling, so from here on out I really don’t care what you reply with, because you’re full of shit.
The whole Adrenaline rush thing is almost comedic. Nothing in the entirety of the FGC will ever give the same adrenaline rush actual physical activity gives, and I going to tell you now as someone who used to serve in the United States Marine Corps a thing or two about adrenaline rushes. You think semi finals of Evo is stressful, try a actual fight for survival where you actual life is on the line.
Even then you do not get this super human sight and perception, if anything things move faster to your perspective not slower. The whole event is a blur.
This dude reads way to much manga, watch anime, and play video games. Talking about crap about trained fighters.
@Sadistic Masochist
Yea , see that statement is pure bull shit.
Son you have no concept what a trained fighter is. A trained fighter is not this triple black belt from the movies, that isn’t a fighter that is Hollywood. Even real martial artist, they are not warriors, they are sportsmen, sportsmen who probability cry in a real situation; modern martial arts is more about sport than it is warfare.
An actual Fighter will do anything at the end of the battle to stay alive Even if they have to play dirty. It is not about speed, or muscle build, its about being the grittiest, dirtiest, smartest and most opportunist guy in the fight. Yes a real fighter needs to be fit, but in reality a actual trained fighter is at best at the same fitness level as a pro athlete, not some near-super human in some game made by Capcom. Yes Military police and such are shown martial arts, but we don’t have none of this crap of training for decades, no one has the time. You are shown the basics and how to overcome anyone who knows Martial Arts by learning how to effectively take someone down , what are the tricks and how to fight dirty. And I mean in a life to death situation there no time for form or style, its a fist full of sand in the guys eyes then hit the guy with a board of wood with nails sticking out of it until that board shatters.
I think most fighting game players with functioning motor skills ought to be able to notice a difference of 3 frames of delay at 60fps. I certainly can, so I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that some can notice 2 (even if the person you’re arguing with might be full of shit).
I know this is off-topic and all, but I just can’t let someone get by implying that 1/30th of a second isn’t a big deal in this forum and this thread of all places.
wow, didn’t know i was talking to retards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppe4O1H4tIw
for you dumb fucks, this has been tested. in the time a normal person blinks, that is about the amount of time it takes for a normal person to register a light going on on a test dummy. a trained fighter can hit that light on a dummy before a normal person has registered that shit through vision. let’s not even get started about featherweights and other lightweight boxers. you guys just suck, thus think everybody else sucks. i tried to be nice son, but i guess you don’t deserve that.
edit: even with sand in your hand, vagina and mouth, with even a wooden board in your other hand, you ain’t beating a top heavyweight contender, be it from boxing, kickbox or mma.
double edit: 2 frames = HUGE. thats the difference between modern era and oldschool gaming. a little lessthan that maybe even.
now in the sf4 series its hard to stop moves like dashpunches and blanka rolls when done close (1/4 screen away or closer)
back in the old days we used to stop dash punches from rog in hyperfighting on snes on turbo 10 from less than half a screen away with srk’s.