Stupid theory fighter thread: Elena in CvS2

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
1

WARNING: This thread is for theory fighter professionals only. Don’t bother posting shit like “Elena’s in CvS2?” or “This is a stupid waste of time”. I already know that.

Now for the TRUE theory fighters out there…

What if you could stick your favorite character into CvS2? Have you ever thought about how you’d design it, considering RCs, rolls, grooves and shit like that in mind?

I was thinking about what it would be like if Elena was in CvS2.

Okay, let’s pretend. She’s in the game. Make her Third Strike Elena pretty much. Roll animation looks like her command strong punch (cartwheel), and dodge looks like whiff grab animation. A Groove activation looks like Healing. Okay, all that dumb shit’s out of the way.

Personally, I think how good/broken Elena would be hinges on two moves: spin scythe (comboable or not) and short lynx tail (safe or not). I’ll analyze the following moves considering the either/or case - either she has comboable SS or safe short lynx tail.

low jab/short: Considering Elena is an overhead machine, it would probably be dumb to give her rapidfire low short. Low jab, though, would be okay regardless of which Elena we are talking about. If she didn’t have comboable SS, rapidfire low short might be okay since it wouldn’t combo into anything but scratch wheel which isn’t safe.

stand roundhouse: This move should still have crazy priority since it’s her primary poke, but should it go over moves? I think to be competitive, you should make this move go over things like Sagat C.Fierce if spaced right. Her back leg is somewhat vulnerable, but her kicking leg goes high enough to go over moves like that.

jump roundhouse: In a lowjump groove, this move might be broken because you could lowjump roundhouse all day long. To fix it, you could give Elena an alternate roundhouse for a lowjump (I think Ryo has an alternate move in his lowjump). If she doesn’t have comboable SS, then lowjump roundhouse would be okay since, like rapidfire low short, it doesn’t go anywhere.

command forward kick: This move NEEDS to be toned down if you can combo spin scythe; probably made slower before the actual attack comes out. However, if she doesn’t have it, then this move should stay the way it is in 3s.

low forward: Resist the urge to speed up this move; think of how broken she’d be in A Groove if this move was a little faster. It should still link into Brave Dance, but considering what I think should be done to it, it probably needs to have shorter recovery time in order to do so (see next post).

None of Elena’s chains seem to be anything to worry about, so I’d keep them all. Next post - specials and supers.

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Scratch Wheel - RC Scratch Wheel would be a dope DP. Without it, it’s still the same iffy move it always was, and for good reason. This move should stay the same, IMO.

Rhino Horn - RC short rhino horn would probably be a good evasive long distance poke. Generally, it’s a long distance poke, so I might make its recovery time shorter, but it shouldn’t always be safe.

Spin Scythe - This move is an important one to look at. IMO, Elena would be dope fun with a comboable Spin Scythe that was like her EX Spin Scythe in 3s. If you toned down her overhead ability, it would be okay, and you could get juggles afterward which would lead to fun combos. It still shouldn’t be safe if blocked, regardless. The followup was always rather pointless, so it can stay in for character sake.

Mallet Smash - Only an OK move, in 3s it’s parry bait but in CvS2 it would be pretty good since it’s fast. However, you would probably be able to roll on reaction and punish her from the other side. I would speed up the recovery time, which would make “skill links” possible but difficult (like Mallet Smash into Brave Dance).

Lynx Tail - Another important move, it was underexplored in 3s because it’s somewhat superfluous - just a fancier unsafe multiple hit sweep that didn’t always work. To tweak it, you could speed up the move, which would make short lynx tail a safe low poke from long distance (up close you would still be able to hit her). Of course, if you had this AND comboable spin scythe, Elena would be basically an unblockable combo machine, which would make her like A-Hibiki all the time. So, you’d have to choose between, IMO.

Spinning Beat - level 2 would be the 3s super, while level 1 would only have 2 kicks, and level 3 would have 4 hits per scratch wheel and do nice damage (but not excessive). Easy mode priority because of CvS2 super invincibility makes it good anti-air already, and it combos from low short from the right distance.

Brave Dance - should be a bit slower. Most of the damage in 3s was done at the beginning, and this probably should remain unchanged. In 3s, stun drained during BD; in CvS2, stun stays at the same level if you’re getting hit with a super. So this MIGHT be a concern, but I don’t know.

Healing - level 3 super only. I would keep this the same, considering how useless Nako’s healing super is, but she would heal back POINTS, not bar (so R4 Elena couldn’t just bail herself out anytime she gets level 3 and lands a throw or something).

Next post, groove specific concerns.

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From now on, I’m calling comboable spin scythe “Combofiend Elena”, and safe short lynx tail “Unblockable Elena”. Combofiend Elena has alternate lowjump roundhouse and slower command forward; Unblockable Elena has 3s lynx tail and slower startup Brave Dance.

C-Groove: Since Brave Dance has all its damage at its beginning, C-Elena would be pretty decent. Level 2 BD into spin scythe, level 1 spinning beat would be dope combo if you had Combofiend Elena (since that would let you juggle); otherwise Level 2 BD into RH scratch wheel or level 1 BD.

A-Groove: Unblockable Elena would actually not be TOO scary since command overheads wouldn’t combo into any special that’s safe. Either Elena would probably have really basic combo of stand rh x2/3, command strong, stand rh x2, mash on command strong then end with brave dance. She’d probably also have easy AA custom with scratch wheel, roll and juggle with something. I’m thinking too hard about a character who isn’t even in the game I know. I’m hella bored.

P-Groove: Generally, 3s Elena; Unblockable Elena would also have lowjump roundhouse as yet another dope overhead, but that is okay IMO since Mallet Smash is now pretty useless. She’d probably be just about as good as 3s Elena, all things considered.

S-Groove: I haven’t thought about what her dodge attacks should be. I would probably give her back+roundhouse as her combo attack and s.roundhouse as her knockdown attack. Only Combofiend Elena would be worth using in S-Groove though, since Unblockable Elena would never be able to do any damage.

N-Groove: Has break stock into AA super ability and lowjump. Other than that, there’s not much to think about here.

K-Groove: This might be broken. Anytime Elena gets raged, she becomes that much more dangerous. You can’t turtle because she’ll heal, and rushing her down is scary too. At least she doesn’t have any RCs.

Okay, that was so stupid, but I had to get that off my chest. LOL, and see if there’s anyone as crazy as me. Discuss.

4

Damn, Elena in CVS2? That’s one hellafied remix. Good call, Rick.

Oh yeah, and nice avatar. Captain Corridor!

5

Damn what a waste of my post. Now i must wait 4 minutes :frowning:

You get your vanilla coke

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cable in cvs2:

rc tackle and rc grenade that shit!

roll into psimitar.

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Elena (as well as pretty much every other 3S character) seems like she would die to K Groove since her moves are all laggy and punishable if JDed. She would also have some problems fighting an opponent he keeps jumping in and JDing.

She would also have tons of problems getting anywhere near jiggling Cammy/Vega/Hibiki/Chun.

How would she punish Blanka Ball without Brave Dance?

On an unrelated note, here would be A-Elena’s midscreen anti-air CC:

CC, [fwd DP (1 hit), whiff low short, s.fierce (to knock opponent away) into rh Rhino Horn], repeat brackets once more to get into the corner. In corner, super jumping 2 hit rh x N (lots of hits!), land and spinning beat super.

Damage would probably be a mediocre 6500ish since spinning beat only juggles for 3-5 hits.

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Ha ha, well I can tell you Oro would suck balls in CvS2. A few good RCs (HCF+K/command throw/D, U+P), but his supers just don’t fit in with the system.

I got a feeling Ibuki would be tight, though.

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I just thought about it and it seems the only move Elena has that isn’t open to getting owned by JD is s.short. That really sucks. Speeding up rhino horn’s recovery might help a little, but not much. You’d have to keep your distance and space short rhino horns to get in.

These all seem like shitty fights. Elena isn’t totally hopeless though, because at least she can do dumb shit like:

  • vs. Cammy - If s.roundhouse doesn’t beat spiral arrow, back+roundhouse should definitely work.
  • vs. Vega - semi-random short rhino horn (RC?) from good distance
  • vs. Hibiki - she’s pretty assed out here, but RC mallet smash might be okay. Brave Dance to counter cheap slash.
  • vs. Chun-Li - If you can’t RC scratch wheel, you die for free. Otherwise, I don’t see this as a horrible fight.

Short rhino horn? Or maybe lynx tail. shrug

Nice. You’re a theory fighter champion, Campbell :slight_smile:

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I think Fei Long would make a great CVS2 character. His crouching fierce reminds me of Athena’s. I’d definately use him in P-groove for parryxxrekkas.

11

Fuck that… Jedah needs to be in there. His A-groove combos will be insane. Err anyways… I think she could be a poor man’s A-Sakura for the simple fact of her Lynx Tail [not the one that knocks down but the one that keeps her going forward]. Although I’m not sure if her Lynx Tail is duckable by short bitches like Hibiki and Sakura… it would make a really nice guard crushing combo. But that’s if you don’t limit her ass like Capcom did Rolento because I’m pretty sure if Rolent’s Patriot Circle was Cancelable into itself, people would be saying “Sakura who?”. But either way Elena is going to get owned because her moves are way to laggy. Maybe if her Rhino horn went through people like Hibiki’s slash… she could be really annoying.

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That’s not Lynx Tail, that’s Spin Scythe. Lynx Tail is the breakdance move. But yeah, I forgot that short bitches can duck Spin Scythe. That could fuck her against Chun-Li/Hibiki/Sak unless they modified the way it hit.

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If Jesus were in CvS2 he would walk on water to get you all confused, and then die for your sins so everybody’s a winner.

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You could have elanas 3.FK be like blankas where it goes under projectiles,make it a little faster and it could punish blanka ball

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Unless Spinning Beat juggles semi decent, she has no good anti air super. Her j.Forward would be a usable crossup.

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I predict good things from cvs2 Q.
AA with b+mp or RC hp slappy hands . . .or hell, RC command grab. It’s so slow that you could do it really early and just watch your opponent fall into it. Hmm, that would probably be about the only time that getting in taunts would be a good idea against a lot of people. Oh wait, sudden usefulness of an RC taunt! MMm, ok, not THAT useful, but it would certainly set up some funny, and useful, moments. RC dash punch would be nice. Think they might give him another super cancelable normal to make up for the loss of special canceling? Mebbe far mk or something.
Using hard normals on the ground would probably never never be a good idea.
anywhere Q CC:
Command grab, CC, appropriate dash punch (try to hit low) into [b+hk into hp dash punch (whiff? guess it depends)]Xn, in the corner, couple o’ b+hk if the combo count isn’t too high yet, then slappy hands (2-hit)Xn until low meter,cancel into total destruction (deadly double would be a lvl3), catch them with qcf+p.
of course, there would also be the [b,f+lp]Xn ground cc, ala balrog

meh

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C groove- Cable… :lol:

(corner combo) C.lk c.mk s.hk xx TKAHVB (level 2) into fierce DP.

18

Fuck Haoh and Nak, put in Kaede and Yuki:cool:

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we have elena in cvs2… but she’s white and we call her king…
healing super would be shitty like nakoruru’s.
She would suck, i would kick her in the face with cammy, ggop.

now hugo… hugo would be dope… rc anti air throw, rc godpress like throw, rc hand clap, standing strong would stuff everything, low forward would go further then cammy s. rh, AND, he would have dope lvl 2 cancels…

rc wall throw as anti- air, lvl 2 jump super, after splash hits cancel into hand clap which would lift them off the ground and stun them, link lvl 1 hammer mountain 10800 damage

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makoto in cvs2… RC dashpunch !!!