I alt Gief/Hugo. I know it’s not a very synergetic team but it’s fun to me. I planned to pick them up before release so I’m not just a bandwagoner…
Now normally I can just counterpick and pick Vega to deal with Jack fairly easily. But i don’t want to have to resort to counterpicking.
The problem is that Gief and Hugo dont really have any way to get in. They dont have any way to get past seismo/DP zoning and Jack doesnt have to come in at all. He can sit there full screen and chip for free. Unlike someone like Dhalsim i cant use launcher to get past his full screen poke. Unlike Raven I cant really walk forward because seismo hits twice and pushes me back further than i can walk. Dashing doesnt work because it’s too slow on both Gief and Hugo. Monster Lariat armor and Running Bear Grab armor get beat by 2nd hit seismo. EX green hand isnt hit invincible so I end up getting hit outta that. Jumping over is extremely risky but the only way in… which Jack players usually sit there and look for. You have to jump way early because seismo will hit you outta your jumping frames and 1 wrong read and you’ve eaten a DP into seismo and you’re all the way back at full screen… Sooo… yeah I’m stumped. Normally I can figure out something like this but i got nothing this time. Cant run, cant walk, cant dash, cant armor, cant jump and cant special through. So… other than Jack playing like a retard or counterpicking, how do I get in?
Edit: I have to admit that even SF4 Sagat and Dhalsim were not this hard to get in on. But I had a hit invincible EX Green Hand to help out with that.
Just be patient walk, block and Jack will reach the end of the screen and Gief will rape Jack up close.
Or wait for that one whiffed seismo and close the gap. Remember Jack can’t do anything to you when you’re fullscreen since his arm projectile gives no chipdamage. So when Jack dashes to get you into his HP seismo range, you dash/jump towards him.
yeah that first tactic doesnt work at all… because the pushback from seismo is more than I can walk forward inbetween seismos… the net gain is actually going backwards toward my own corner.
The 2nd method might be more effective but the issue with that is that jack will recover before gief (or hugo) can cover full screen distance making me forced to block upon landing or recovery from green hand. Then jack can basically push me back into the corner again regardless of how much i walk.
Dashing with gief or hugo isnt an option… they just get hit by seismo.
Pushback on seismo is way too much for gief to walk and block. What I usually do is neutral jump until a whiffed seismo(I know its a little risky)and then try and go from there. I usually beat Jack from punishing only now that I think about it. Some jacks that I play always kill them selves. My matchup with him is very iffy. If I get in with Heihachi I tear Jack a new asshole and close up the old one. He can literally do NOTHING if your in there. Same with Gief I think. Most important think i learned was to be patient.
see here is the problem once jack-x gets two bars he takes away your option to jump as he can do super arts and punish you and put you back at square one. Your characters are too slow and easy picking for jack-x. he counter picks your whole team. Only hugo has a move that can get him to point a to point b but you’ll be punished on your whiff. I know you said you don’t want to counter pick him but you might have to in a situation where both your characters lose to only one character. That’s just my two cents.
One issue that Geif has once he finally gets in is that he is big enough to have to block both hits of Jacks HP dp. HP dp does have throw invincibility (aside from a few weird frames), it beats armor (so no charging bear grab to punish), and it allows for a safe tag on block with +frames for the incoming character.
The unfortunate truth of this matchup is that once Geif gets in, Jack probably has at least 1 bar, so you can’t even pressure him comfortably due to a safe tag cancelled HP dp. It’s gonna be even worse come 2013, since Geif won’t be able to roll in safely.
yes this. Don’t respect Jack, Bumrush him with Gief if everything else fails.
He’s so helpless up close, I think the match-up will be MUCH harder in v2013
If you can manage to get close to him and he doesn’t have a bar to tag, this is pretty true. Jack’s fastest button is 6f, so you should have plenty of room to work with.
I main Jack. And the biggest mistake you can make is respect him and try to time your attacks.
I’ll be laughing and earning meter for his unbelievable super-art.
Just be patient, and when you got your chance go all out and jab/cross-up/boost-combo him to hell.
Unfortunately I don’t really have much new tech. I often wait for the Seismo and try to get that moment in this kinda magic range where your jHP from max range connects as soon as he goes down for seismo. This match is all about anticipation. It’s so awful.
The EX Hand could work against MP Dp happy Jack because of it being a projectile, but you only have that to a certain degree and a certain player level. At your level, just surrender
If you still play this team in ver2013 and beat a good Jack, I will salute you. It’s gonna be such a pain in the backside. Especially because of the roll change shit.
i don’t like lili… besides i think my Vega is a sufficient enough counterpick. especially now that i have his meaty fierce crossover down. Jack cant get away from Vega…
The issue is that it bothers me that every other matchup no matter how hard is winnable with both Hugo and Gief. I hate having to resort to counterpicking… even if it is picking my main team.
I’m curious as to how other Gief/Hugo players approach this match.
btw having the opponent tag… even if it’s safe is fine because it gets jack out… and ANYONE is easier to get in on than him.
Also, would alpha counter beat that safe tag option for a happy b-day?
Edit: yes it does.
so far i’ve been working on this in the training room. It’s risky as fuck and if the opponent guesses correctly you’re fucked. But i think i’ve got the timing down if they dash… now the issue is that if they dont dash. They can take 2 steps forward and be back in seismo range. If i keep walking back eventually there’s gonna be a corner behind me. Being cornered against a full screen or semi full screen jack is not where gief or hugo wants to be
Here’s an idea of what I would do: Stay full screen. Build meter (CADC, whiffing specials/normals). Once you have 1 bar walk in, block his seismos and alpha counter.
In 2013 you won’t get a combo off cross-cancel but it’s still a hard knockdown and he won’t roll because of rolls being punishable. So instead of using the hard knockdown to raw tag, you use that time to get in on Jack.
So it’s gonna be his chip damage vs your 120 damage cross-cancels. You will surely get the life lead before him this way and force Jack-X to come to you or tag his partner. Problem solved! He wants to lame you out I say lame Jack out even more and beat him at his own game.
just a heads up tho… neither gief nor hugo can combo off a tagged alpha counter. they land too soon. So that nerf in 2013 doesnt really hurt. Thank’s UD for the green hand OS.
While this is technically true, it doesn’t really help you with the Jack matchup, and Geif and Hugo both suffer from an inability to punish raw tags if the opponent gets some distance.
I think this depends on what the opponent does on the way in. I’m pretty sure the incoming character can run cancel in plenty of time to end up safe against ACs because Jack is so fat. Geif may be an exception, though, because his AC travels so far forwards.
I think Vulcan Hades’ suggestion is the best option so far in regards to getting in and getting the knockdown. About building meter at full screen, though: Because of the width of both Geif and Hugo’s hitboxes, Jack can tag you for charging/backdashing with a kara (off s.HP) HP seismo. No dash forwards required. Something to keep in mind.
Side note: it is possible to combo after Hugo’s Lariat AC with other characters. Have you tried going for slightly less optimal combos to enable Geif to hit that first attack? Can he juggle from any light attacks?
I completely understand. Vega def gives Jack x a problem. That’s jack’s current issue atm he can get vortexed very easily. And match ups like Lili only get worse since he can’t roll away anymore.
You could also have a lot of def gems or meter build gems on block because it would seem that you need all kinds of meter to beat jack-x. It could work for you. Or you could use speed gems to help with your slow walk speed. Those are some outlets you can try.
