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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/16564/street11">street11</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Nope, link cancelling creates a situation in which an 1 frame link (actually, we consider +9 frame advantage link into a 9f start-up move as an 1 frame link) becomes a 2 frame link and a link that is impossible by 1 frame difference (trying to link a 10f start-up move after a move with +9 advantage), becomes possible. Only a few moves have the ability to do this.<br><br>I’m surprised that you cannot cancel the last frame with launcher and throw.<br></div>
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The weird thing is that if you input the throw on frame 39 of knife c.hp (including start up and hit freeze), which is the cancel frame, the throw will still come out, but the first animation happens on the frame afterwards (so frame 40th, where you can link everything normally anyway). Launcher don’t come out at all, same for jump. Here happens the first frame of animation for c.hk, tag, super etc tho.<br>
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<div class=“QuoteText”><a href="/profile/17033/zUkUu">zUkUu</a> said:<br>The weird thing is that if you input the throw on frame 39 of knife c.hp (including start up and hit freeze), which is the cancel frame, the throw will still come out, but the first animation happens on the frame afterwards (so frame 40th, where you can link everything normally anyway). Launcher don’t come out at all, same for jump. Here happens the first frame of animation for c.hk, tag, super etc tho.<br></div>
</blockquote>Which frame shows the throw input button in training mode? frame 40, or 41? Throw animation is so subtle that I think it’s barely visible in frame 1.<br><br>BTW, if throw really is not cancellable from and you input throw command at the exact same frame as cr.HK/cr.MK/etc., throw wouldn’t come out at all, just like how a normal wouldn’t come out if you input it a frame too early.<br>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/16564/street11">street11</a> said:</div>
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<div class=“QuoteText”><a href="/profile/17033/zUkUu">zUkUu</a> said:<br>The weird thing is that if you input the throw on frame 39 of knife c.hp (including start up and hit freeze), which is the cancel frame, the throw will still come out, but the first animation happens on the frame afterwards (so frame 40th, where you can link everything normally anyway). Launcher don’t come out at all, same for jump. Here happens the first frame of animation for c.hk, tag, super etc tho.<br></div>
</blockquote>Which frame shows the throw input button in training mode? frame 40, or 41? Throw animation is so subtle that I think it’s barely visible in frame 1.<br><br>BTW, if throw really is not cancellable and you input throw command at the exact same frame as other cr.HK/cr.MK/etc., throw wouldn’t come out at all, just like how a normal wouldn’t come out if you input it a frame too early.<br></div>
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That’s what I’m saying. The Throw input is macroed on frame 39 but doesn’t appear on screen until 41F. Start up happens on frame 40 (he goes from crouching into standing, so it’s quite visible). For c.hk the input appears on frame 40. Seems like a hard buffer of 2 frames. I think dash has the same trait.<br>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/16564/street11">street11</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Ah okay. I guess it indeed is not cancellable.<br><br>Can you put the macro in frame 38 btw? I just want to confirm it further. Thanks in advance.<br></div>
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So any other moves other then ken, lars and cody’s? I want to have one more example. :p<br><br>Edit:<br>Guile, cl f.hk (+7), df.hk (8F start up)! <br><br>Will check if the values are true.<br>
Lei’s Dragon LP, Dragon MP, Crane LP, Crane MP, Crane HP.<br><br>Except for Dragon MP, there are no linkable normals (actually, everything else is negative on hit lol), but you can link Dragon MP (+5 on hit) -> Dragon LK (6f start-up)<br><br>Actually, I think his st.HP is as well (using frame perfect normal -> normal, I determined it even on hit, but after discovering the hit-jump method, I realized it was -1 on hit).<br>
<img src=“http://i.imgur.com/Y2LeKgA.jpg”><br>I worked the whole night on it. It’s now 10 am over here, so gotta take a nap for a few hours before I’ll finish it. Finding a macro tool and figuring it out took way too much time. And I’m way out of shape with video editing, didn’t do something for over 3 years now. <br><br>I’ll upload a preview so you can spell and content check it @street11. I <strike>want</strike> <strike>request</strike> demand feedback! x)<br>PS: Vegas > Premiere<br>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/16564/street11">street11</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Lei’s Dragon LP, Dragon MP, Crane LP, Crane MP, Crane HP.<br><br>Except for Dragon MP, there are no linkable normals (actually, everything else is negative on hit lol), but you can link Dragon MP (+5 on hit) -> Dragon LK (6f start-up)<br><br>Actually, I think his st.HP is as well (using frame perfect normal -> normal, I determined it even on hit, but after discovering the hit-jump method, I realized it was -1 on hit).<br></div>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/68074/The%20Big%20Boss">The Big Boss</a> said:</div>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/16564/street11">street11</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Lei’s Dragon LP, Dragon MP, Crane LP, Crane MP, Crane HP.<br><br>Except for Dragon MP, there are no linkable normals (actually, everything else is negative on hit lol), but you can link Dragon MP (+5 on hit) -> Dragon LK (6f start-up)<br><br>Actually, I think his st.HP is as well (using frame perfect normal -> normal, I determined it even on hit, but after discovering the hit-jump method, I realized it was -1 on hit).<br></div>
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Wait so you can link these moves?</div>
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Video explaining everything will be up in a few hours (I hope).<br>
It seems, Kazuya’s “Demon Slayer”, LP > MP > MP is definitely not -14 on block. It can’t be punished by Sagat’s super so i request an exact calculation of frame advantage on this string. Thanks.<br>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/17851/Gr1nGo">Gr1nGo</a> wrote: <a href="/discussion/comment/7993139#Comment_7993139" class=“QuoteLink”><span class=“ArrowLink”>»</span></a></div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>It seems, Kazuya’s “Demon Slayer”, LP > MP > MP is definitely not -14 on block. It can’t be punished by Sagat’s super so i request an exact calculation of frame advantage on this string. Thanks.</div>
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It’s -3. it also doesn’t yield a hard knockdown but staggers (+17). fixed. thanks.<br>
<div style=“font-size: 10pt;”><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>I know you’re probably working really hard right now, I’d be doing all these things myself If I had the necessary tools and knowledge. But sadly</span><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”> I don’t, so the only thing I can do is try to verify your findings and search for errors.</span><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2” style=“font-size: 10pt;”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div>According to the frame data, Ogre his uf+LK > MK is -3 on block, but I wasn’t able to reversal him with Ryu his DP (3f startup). I don’t know if it is because of pushback or whatever, but I was able to punish him with Ken his Super (2f startup).</span></font><div style=“font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”><br></div><div style=“font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”>Also is it correct that yoshimitsu his Super is 6 frames startup ?<br>Me and my brother have been trying to link his f+MK > MP > b,b cancel into super (HCB+PPP).</div><div style=“font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”>We were able to cancel the backdash and link into Ex Gehosen (DP motion + PP) and Sword Poke Windmill Ex (HCB+PP), but Super doesn’t seem to work and all 3 of them have 6 frame startup. </div><div style=“font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”><br></div><div style=“font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”>Don’t really know if u can be bothered with this, but yeah those were the ‘errors’ I’ve found for now.</div>
<span style=“font-weight: normal;”>ZuKu, thank you so much for putting your effort in this work.<br><br>I know you did so much so far, but can you add some general frame data, like normal jump start-up, super jumps, characters who differs from the general (probably graplers).<br><br>I’m looking specifically for the start-up of </span><b>Pandora </b>and <b>Cross-Assault</b>, would like to know if combos will work with some setups. Would like to know also if some grounded frames after a jump and action (like Hugo body splash, +4f) can be cancelled on something, you must already know that (saw your 0 frame video). I believe it can also be reduced to 3f.
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/37884/Ralenzo">Ralenzo</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>According to the frame data, Ogre his uf+LK > MK is -3 on block, but I wasn’t able to reversal him with Ryu his DP (3f startup). I don’t know if it is because of pushback or whatever, but I was able to punish him with Ken his Super (2f startup).<div><br></div><div>Also are u sure that yoshimitsu his Super is 6 frames startup ?<br>Me and my brother have been trying to link his f+MK > MP > b,b cancel into super.</div><div>We were able to cancel the backdash and link into Ex Gehosen and Sword Poke Windmill Ex, but Super doesn’t seem to work and all 3 of them have 6 frame startup. </div><div><br></div><div>Can u be bothered to verify this ?</div></div>
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Ogre’s chain seems to be -3.<br><br>EX Poison Breath: Start Up 16F (-1)<br>EX Swordmill: Start Up 5F (-1)<br>Super Art: Start Up 7F (+1)<br><br>EX Moves are often 1F faster; Super / Cross Arts 1F slower. Super / Cross Arts are hard to make out tho.<br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/2761/azis">azis</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><span style=“font-weight: normal;”>ZuKu, thank you so much for putting your effort in this work.<br><br>I know you did so much so far, but can you add some general frame data, like normal jump start-up, super jumps, characters who differs from the general (probably graplers).<br><br>I’m looking specifically for the start-up of </span><b>Pandora </b>and <b>Cross-Assault</b>, would like to know if combos will work with some setups. Would like to know also if some grounded frames after a jump and action (like Hugo body splash, +4f) can be cancelled on something, you must already know that (saw your 0 frame video). I believe it can also be reduced to 3f.</div>
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You can cancel the recovery if you empty jump. If you did an air attack you have a forced 4F of waiting time. I doubt you can cancel that.<br>I do plan on compiling an up to date health, dash, jump and walk speed list etc somewhere in the future.<br>
I see, then the reason I couldn’t punish that Ogre chain is probably because of pushback, huh. Or maybe Ryu his DP is not 3 frames…<div>I dunno, there didn’t seem to be any pushback, oh well, I’m gonna try punishing it with other 3 frame normals/specials/supers then.<br></div><div><br></div><div>But I’m gonna do that tomorrow, I’ll also give u a list of all the properties of Bryan his specials and moves.</div>
Just did a quick test to see If I’m able to punish Ogre his uf+LK > MK chain, but nope…<div><div>I tried reversaling it with Ryu (DP), Ken (HP DP and EX DP), Akuma (DP), Steve (Super) and Julia (Super), didn’t work. I wasn’t able to punish Ogre his d+LK > MK > MK either for that matter and that’s also -3, altho this string does give a little bit of pushback so that could be the reason, but I don’t understand why I’m not able to punish Ogre his uf+LK > MK string since It doesn’t seem to give any pushback whatsoever. Both strings (uf+LK > MK and d+LK > MK >MK) only seem to be punishable by Ken his 2frame super.</div></div><div>I tried blocking it high and low to see if that was a factor but it isn’t.</div><div><br></div><div>So either;</div><div>- the reversals are not a true reversal (meaning it’s not frame perfect for some reason, even if it says ‘reversal’)</div><div>- the DP’s and Supers are 4 frames </div><div>- Ogre is able to block at frame -1 for some reason</div><div>- or SFxTK is playing tricks with me -__-</div><div><br></div><div>I hate to burden you with this trivial matter, but seriously, wtf ?! </div>
