Looking at the frame data chart since ACs were being discussed in the general thread, and I was curious… but Marduk’s Cross Cancel is listed as Hard Knockdown, is that actually the case? I’m almost positive it isn’t.
All CC’s SHOULD be HKD’s…though pre 2013 Ryu’s wasn’t. I found it quite funny. Also Zuk is Juri’s Fuhajin (store) link cancelable on whiff and on hit as well?
I’ve digged i
I’d assume so, but can’t say for certain.
Most moves that are link-cancelable can also be whiffed to get that link cancel right? Because if that’s the case…oh boy…Fuhajin just got 10x better.
It is a hard knockdown, or at least I was unable to Stand Tech it. Unfortunately, the knockdown state doesn’t last long at all though.
What do you mean exactly? Do you mean if Juri’s Fireball (store) can be special move canceled from a normal on whiff? If that’s what you are asking then it cannot. Both the store and release have to be canceled from a normal on hit or block, but not whiff. The only move in the game that I know is special move cancel-able on whiff is Sagat’s f+LK. His f+HK also has that property according to the frame data but I’ve never gotten it to work.
Guess I should have been more specific. I meant. You store a Fuhajin and link-cancel the last recovery frame into say a normal. Since it is link-cancelable. I was wondering if you can do that on whiff.
Same with Jack’s AC. I AC, do a raw tag yet people can still roll towards me. Will test it in training mode though. Nvm.
I’m pretty sure you can roll after a hard knockdown…
Yup, “hard knockdown” only means you cannot Stand Tech it.
Whoops! Nvm then… 
Hard Knockdown = Can’t “quick rise”
The misc section of the doc also explains a few things. 
Yeah, I just figured it out in training mode. No wonder I’ve been eating punishes when I raw tagged after AC at times… lol
Some CC’s are better then others for raw tags. Ones wth quick 1 hitting quick recoverable moves are usually the best for raw tags. Ones likes shoryuken’s, multiple hitting moves tend to take longer to finish thus leaving less time to raw tag safely. Juri’s and King’s for example are excellent raw tag CC’s.
I think Ken’s cross cancel, despite being a DP, is safe on raw tag if you do it on the first possible frame. But I think you’re at like -1 or -2 afterwards so it’s not that great for it, but it’s not the worst for it…
Well I haven’t tested every CC into a raw tag…but I know Raven’s is garabge for raw tagging…
I’m merging my previous post with this one since the changes weren’t made.
Abel
-Forward Kick: Damage 80/60 / 60 damage on airborne opponent
Guy
-Neck Breaker: Kara-cancelable into SM,EX,SA,CA
Ibuki
-Everything that says “requires d,u to jump cancel” might as well just say super jump in the cancel list
-Standing MK: Cancelable into CA
-Crouching HP: Knockdown on airborne opponent
-cl.LP>f+MP: 1st hit cancelable into SM,EX,SA,CA,super jump
Juri
-Jump Diagonal MP: Knockdown on airborne opponent
M Bison
-Crouch HP: Damage 90(60)
-Jump Diagonal MP: Knockdown on airborne opponent
-LP Psycho Crusher: Damage 120/60 / Tail hitbox does 60 damage
-MP Psycho Crusher: Damage 130/70 / Tail hitbox does 70 damage
-HP Psycho Crusher: Damage 140/80 / Tail hitbox does 80 damage
Sagat
-Low Step Kick: Kara-cancelable, not whiff-cancelable (into SM,EX,SA,CA)
-High Step Kick: Kara-cancelable, not whiff-cancelable (into SM,EX,SA,CA)
Bob
-cr.HK>HK>HK: 1st hit whiffs on crouching opponent
-Granchi Cannon: Untechable knockdown
Hwoarang
-HK Hunting Hawk: Last hit causes techable ground bounce on grounded opponent
-LP/MP/HP Dynamite Heel: +5 on counter hit
Law
-Shin Crusher: Whiff-cancelable (into SM,EX,SA,CA)
Steve
-LP and LK attacks: Cancelable into st.MK (MK and HK are both boost chains)
Won’t bother with Kara-cancels, since that is a system mechanism and not something move specific afaik.
Juri
-Jump Diagonal MP: Knockdown on airborne opponent
It’s noted as hard knockdown - is it a soft?
Law
-Shin Crusher: Whiff-cancelable (into SM,EX,SA,CA)
Only on whiff? It’s currently noted as SM,EX,SA,CA
Added the most (not everything). If it’s a wall bounce => soft or hard knockdown is pretty irrelevant imo.
Guy’s overhead kara cancel is not a system mechanic cancel, it is just like how you can cancel Sagat’s foward LK/HK at any point before it becomes active. System wide Kara cancels are only 1F windows. It is specific to those moves by design, they actually have cancel data just for that.
In some ways it is semantics. The thing is that “whiff cancelable” assumes that you can cancel it even past the active frames all the way to the recovery portion (like how you can whiff cancel many tekken chains) the move actually reaches the active portion before being canceled. “Kara cancelable” (E.G. “Empty cancel”) generally is considered for canceling before a move becomes active. You cannot cancel Guy’s neckbreaker after the last startup frame.
Yeah wasn’t kara canceling non-existent in SFxT? (of course not the obvious like kara canceling a raging demon)
Interestingly enough, not ENTIRELY but it’s been toned down to an extreme thanks to how the new engine handles pushboxes/hurtboxes/hitboxes/center points. You can still kara throw somewhat but oddly it isn’t like it does move forward - throw it is more like it does throw - slide forward slightly. Try doing MK Kara Throw with Cody and you’ll see what I mean.