Request:
Can you check the SD on lighting legs. And also, add the SD for when they are mashed (as opposed to unmashed)?
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/23416/FlyingVe">FlyingVe</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Request:<br>
<br>
Can you check the SD on lighting legs. And also, add the SD for when they are mashed (as opposed to unmashed)?</div>
</blockquote>
<b>Hit (Normal / Extended) | Block (Normal / Extended)</b><br><b>LK Legs:</b> 2 / -22 | -1 / -25<br><b>MK Legs: </b>2 / 3 | -1 / 0<br><b>HK Legs:</b> 1 / 4 | -2 / 1<br><b>EX Legs</b>: float | -3<br><br><br>Edit:<br>Guy finished:<br><a href=“https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahj9eopeop0SdDltVUdvbWx4ZjFUMWNBRW1mdmFwUEE#gid=39” target="_blank" rel=“nofollow”>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahj9eopeop0SdDltVUdvbWx4ZjFUMWNBRW1mdmFwUEE#gid=39</a><br><br>Next Up: The “female capoeira fighter”. muhahaha Ψ(｀▽´)Ψ <br>
Looking over Elena’s data to see if I can help<div><br></div><div>The first hit of her j.HK puts them in a juggle/float state (though that’s probably another name for knockdown state)</div><div><br></div><div>The spinscythe follows ups put the opponent into a knockdown/float state as well, with the EX one putting opponent in a float state</div><div><br></div><div>Mallet Smash LP and MP forces a stand</div><div>LP version is at minimum +6 on Hit</div><div>MP Version is moreso that LP version (+7 or +8 maybe?)</div><div><br></div><div>LK Lynx Tail (and I believe EX Lynx Tail) is at worst -2 on block. (Tested vs Ryu’s Shoryuken)</div><div><br></div><div>Overall it’s good work.</div>
<br><blockquote class=“Quote” style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana;”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/17178/Gemakai">Gemakai</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Looking over Elena’s data to see if I can help<div><br></div><div>The first hit of her j.HK puts them in a juggle/float state (though that’s probably another name for knockdown state)</div><div><br></div><div>The spinscythe follows ups put the opponent into a knockdown/float state as well, with the EX one putting opponent in a float state</div><div><br></div><div>Mallet Smash LP and MP forces a stand</div><div>LP version is at minimum +6 on Hit</div><div>MP Version is moreso that LP version (+7 or +8 maybe?)</div><div><br></div><div>LK Lynx Tail (and I believe EX Lynx Tail) is at worst -2 on block. (Tested vs Ryu’s Shoryuken)</div><div><br></div><div>Overall it’s good work.</div></div>
</blockquote>
<font face=“Arial”><br></font><div><font face=“Arial”>The data about the ‘forces standing’ and ‘float state’ was already mentioned https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlV1HZwMt3HNdDQyVEdiQ1dSTXRkZWw5aG9BVVNnaVE#gid=3 (<span style=“line-height: 1.7em;”>Zukuu just changed the ‘float state’ to ‘knockdown’.)</span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial”>As u can see, some of her unique normals (like b+HK) also causes float state on mid air opponents. She can’t juggle afterwards on her own but she can probably use tag cancel to bring her partner in who should be able to juggle after the float.</font></div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana;”><br></div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana;”><br></div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana;”><br></div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana;”><br></div>
Street11 did the initial set up for Elena. I’m adding things that I find and yours as well Ralenzo as I go.<br><br>Float / knockdown is a weird thing in this game. You can’t really differentiate them all that much due to the tag cancel mechanism. I use “flaot” when you can combo afterwards yourself, and otherwise “knockdown”. Except for jumping moves. If they “knock down” even on non counter hit, you can actually combo afterwards, but that is the important thing, they don’t “flip” the opponent… well whatever. x)<br>
Yeah It can be hard to tell the difference.<div>I just put float if I see the dummy floating in the air, it has a different falling animation than a regular knockdown. But most of the time you can hardly combo afterwards, except for Guy his jump up HK for example, you can always combo if u tag cancel tho, BUT u can also combo after moves that causes regular knockdowns (like Tatsu, DP etc) if u tag cancel, so like u said, it’s hard to differentiate them and not that important nyway I think.</div>
Elena done:<br><a href=“https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Ahj9eopeop0SdDltVUdvbWx4ZjFUMWNBRW1mdmFwUEE&f=true&noheader=false&gid=53” target="_blank" rel=“nofollow”>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Ahj9eopeop0SdDltVUdvbWx4ZjFUMWNBRW1mdmFwUEE&f=true&noheader=false&gid=53</a><br><br>If any other note come up, please share them!<br>
I differentiate float/knockdown by how the blowback is on the knocked
down opponent. If it sends them flying vertically and make it obvious, I
identify it as float (I personally identify DP knockdown as float, but I
follow the guide instead). If they go more horizontally like Joudan
Kick OR if it just knocks them down in the air like a juggle (eg. CH air-to-air), I identify it as knockdown, even if you can combo after it.<br><br>I put j.HK as knockdown because it doesn’t send them flying but just puts them in a down state instead.<br><br>I’m going to reword the data and make the vocabulary consistent after all the DLC chars are done. I’m also going to differentiate between hard knockdown and sweep knockdown, because sweep knockdown always puts the opponent in a down state for a set number of frames (eg. two trades between sweep will let them wake up at the same time, except for ogre who wakes up 1f faster without roll, and except between roll and regular wake-up since roll consumes 1 more frame according to Brady Guide)<br>
Isn’t hard knock down enough for sweeps? I find “sweep knockdown” redundant imo.<br><br><br>Btw, Lei’s Cross Cancel 5F according to my method, how sure are you about the 6F?<br>
Well, it’s just something that I want to do. Hard knockdown can be any knockdown that you cannot tech even if it sends you flying across the screen, while sweep knockdown, like I said, will always have the same number of frames of down state. No worries, I’ll think about whether I should do it or not only after most other things are done, such as confirming the frame data for existing characters.<br><br>I simply put 6f because the change notes said 6f. They were wrong before and I don’t really trust them as a result.<br>
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/16564/street11">street11</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Well, it’s just something that I want to do. Hard knockdown can be any knockdown that you cannot tech even if it sends you flying across the screen, while sweep knockdown, like I said, will always have the same number of frames of down state. No worries, I’ll think about whether I should do it or not only after most other things are done, such as confirming the frame data for existing characters.<br><br>I simply put 6f because the change notes said 6f. They were wrong before and I don’t really trust them as a result.<br></div>
</blockquote>
I see where you coming from, but doesn’t every hard knockdown yields the same amount of down frames? Only difference is the recovery of the moves isn’t it? I’m not sure, just a guess.<br><br>I checked 1.06 Lei, and his Cross Cancel is 8F there. It’s a weird buff btw. I don’t know why they felt that is something they have to buff. 8F isn’t very slow compared to some other characters. Since they nerfed the ability to follow them up via tag cancel, they forgot to buff a few cross cancels. Bryan and Jack-X both have 16F(!) start up.<br>
@zUkUu<br><br>Actually, it does not. For example, Lei’s LP Orchid Palm is a hard knockdown, but since the opponent has a number of airborne frames, the number of knockdown frames (airborne + grounded) will be different from Paul’s Phoenix Smasher because PS has a shorter airborne knockdown duration.<br><br>Ah okay. Capcom said it was 9f in 1.06, so they are 1f off? I wonder why they’re off by 1f in most moves with a yellow flash.<br>
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/16564/street11">street11</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>@zUkUu<br><br>Actually, it does not. For example, Lei’s LP Orchid Palm is a hard knockdown, but since the opponent has a number of airborne frames, the number of knockdown frames (airborne + grounded) will be different from Paul’s Phoenix Smasher because PS has a less number of airborne frames.<br><br>Ah okay. Capcom said it was 9f in 1.06, so they are 1f off? I wonder why they’re off by 1f in most moves with a yellow flash.<br></div>
</blockquote>
Well obviously. If the hard knockdown has a ground bounce part, it’s also longer, but the actual frames where they are “grounded” should be the same or? I mean, does it play that much of an important role? The only valuable information to me is, if they can quick rise or not imo.^^<br><br>Yeah it’s weird how even capcom for their patch notes has so many errors. They should hire me for general QA! Totally up for it. x)<br><br>
TBH, I don’t know about the grounded part. I wish I knew :(<br><br>It’s only important to a theory fighter like myself since it’s much easier to find a setup if I know it’s a sweep knockdown, and also because cr.HK is not the only move in the game that gives a sweep knockdown. Meh, I can maybe only do 4 characters that I play and let ppl figure the rest out themselves. I’m going to have a hard time finding those “link-cancel” moves anyways.<br><br>When DLC characters are done the first thing I’m going to do is look at Xiaoyu’s EX Hakkesho. Capcom says 22f start-up? I say 25~26f.<br>
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/16564/street11">street11</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>When DLC characters are done the first thing I’m going to do is look at Xiaoyu’s EX Hakkesho. Capcom says 22f start-up? I say 25~26f.<br></div>
</blockquote>
I’m probably busy the next two days, so I booted my xbox again to check it out, just for you: it’s 25F start up. Her super is 9F as well. (+1)<br>
Didn’t expect you to check it, but thanks very much!<br><br>I still can’t believe they would make a mistake that big.<br>
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/16564/street11">street11</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Didn’t expect you to check it, but thanks very much!<br><br>I still can’t believe they would make a mistake that big.<br></div>
</blockquote>
Yeah, it’s a mess.<br><br>Out of personal interest:<br>I checked Guile’s c.mk~s.hk and c.mk~s.hp chains, and to my surprise, it’s -11F and -12F. I’d have never guessed that ~s.hp is more unsafe.<br>I also checked c.mk~c.hk Switch cancel on first hit. Now there is a gap where they can attack, but if they block the second hit, you’re at +25 with the second character xD<br>
I just want to know wtf is up with law, that yolo junkyard is super annoying and why a majority of his stuff is safe <br>
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/67610/Shadow%20Ace">Shadow Ace</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>I just want to know wtf is up with law, that yolo junkyard is super annoying and why a majority of his stuff is safe <br></div>
</blockquote>
Capcom<br>
Just a suggestion/request: Did you consider adding a “juggle potential / juggle usage” (some moves use more than 1 juggle point when they hit, Cody’s Zonk/Ruffian use 3JP if used against an airborne opponent) column? With juggles being such a key part of SFxT it’d probably be a good bit of info to document.<br>