I know (Love Me Tender) but not to any practical degree. I wish for it to be buffed in this regard for to be a little easier.
Ok, so no character requests then…would have been nice though. I also agree with fixing the real issues first
Lei is a character I feel is RIGHT on the cusp of being good but the problem is that his stances don’t really compliment his moves. Slight buff to walk speeds as I suggested and make some of his stance normals/chains special cancelable and he’d shoot up. A lot of his stance pokes, as good as they are, end up feeling less useful as they can’t really be converted into damage or positioning.
Here is what I’d LIKE to see for Lei (I dunno if he needs all of these but some of them would def open him up over all to be more flowing.)
Forward Dash - SLIGHT distance increase
Normal Stance
s.HP - hold forward cancels to Panther stance
s.HK - Damage increased from 90 to 100
Drunken Stance
s.LP - Damage increased from 30 to 40 - Special Cancelable
s.HK - Jump Cancel on hit
Spinning Headbutt - Damage increased from 80 to 140 (the move has a 38F startup ffs.)
Back Turn
MP - Special Cancelable
HP - Startup reduced to 8F (to allow s.LP - s.HP to link)
Play dead
Allow tech roll as an option to get out of play dead (Might be too good, but play dead is pretty bad right now so I dunno.)
Panther
MK - Knockdown on air hit
MP - Special Cancelable
HP - Special Cancelable
Dragon
HK - Damage increased to 100
LK - Cancelable to LP
LP - Special Cancelable
Snake
LK - Cancelable to MK on hit only
MK - Special cancelable
HK - Float on air hit
Obviously it reads like a lot but really when you consider how much Lei HAS it’s not that much and ultimately I think it would make him flow better and make some of his moves more appealing.
Sounds reasonable. Then again I don’t play Lei and I have no clue how quickly you can switch to Drunk stance. Are there more Lei players who have an issue with the priorities? I added it so more people can see and talk about it.
Wouldn’t the Ex version be useless, if the normal versions could just avoid projectiles? The only difference would be the tracking ability, if she received that buff.
I added a new header for the debatable change requests and I suggest discussing these in the balance thread.
Drunken stance can be cancelled into from standing forward. But during neutral game/footsies if you go from crouching or walking back and try to get Drunken stance you’ll get Snake/Backturn most of the time. Feels like you have to walk forward a few frames before you can go into the stance.
[quote=“Eternal, post:63, topic:162357”]
Lei is a character I feel is RIGHT on the cusp of being good but the problem is that his stances don’t really compliment his moves. Slight buff to walk speeds as I suggested and make some of his stance normals/chains special cancelable and he’d shoot up. A lot of his stance pokes, as good as they are, end up feeling less useful as they can’t really be converted into damage or positioning.
Yeah, I think w/ Lei’s walkspeed he needs like a Makoto-esque dash or just faster walk speed. He’s really hard to utilize starting out on point. If your opponent gets the life lead right away they can just run away because Lei has no way to catch them. Even at the start of a match they can just walk back and make you come to them, Lei has a real hard time getting in. I feel like you need to start the momentum from another character then bring Lei in for stance mix-ups. I think that’s where he shines.
I agree that Play Dead needs more options.
Increase damage on spinning headbutt… They’d probably remove the armor properties with that damage. I’m fine with the move as it is. I only use it if they block DRK strong, strong string. Usually you can bait something out and get a crumple off of the headbutt and then TC in and get a fairly good punish. But I only use the move if I have the meter to TC.
I do feel that PAN stance is pretty useless or rather limited.
I’d like to see them add his DRA 1 throw from Tekken. Doing RR > DRA then having hi/low/throw options would be nice.
That’s enough about Lei for though.
The other characters I’ve played as (Kaz/Jin/Law/Lars/Alisa) I don’t have too many balance issues with. I like that Jin hits like a tank and he requires execution to do so.
I do think that Law is too safe on some of his key his moves. He can really dictate the flow of a match because of how safe he is on Junkyard and Spin kicks. Most of the time people don’t even try to punish me when I use those two or even Fury Fists because they think it’s safe. And maybe it’s because they’re not used to fighting Law. I dunno. Just something to think about.
Are people still having trouble with characters like Chun/Hwo/Law?
Add Lee Chaolan to the game.
Remove Whorerong, add True Ogre.
Remove Hwoarang? Really?
Heihachi’s overhead is NOT slow. I’m talking about the command one (has a chopping animation, not the slow/telegraphed one.) It’s the one that crushes standing moves. Heihachi is actually very mobile and has one of the best jump arcs and high priority jump ins in the game. He can careless about footsies.
Hworoang can still pressure you after a blocked overhead and has a myraid of safe 50/50s, again… he can continue to pressure you even if blocked correctly. Why do you think he’s on nearly every team that places high at majors? He needs frame data toned down and he’ll be fine.
I also forgot to mention Law is too safe on a few of his moves… ex ones notably.
btw why do people say the game needs to be faster? Gameplay wise, characters move faster than ssf4, it’s more momentum based and I find myself having to make more frequent decisions and reactions than ssf4. Do they mean faster as in rounds ending quicker?
I know which overhead you mean and I checked the data. It’s slower than Akuma’s overhead just as I said.
As already said the highest priority of an eventual patch is to fix bugs, glitches and other issues. If you want to talk about frame data I suggest you start with what you believe is appropiate to start a discussion.
I agree with Dr. Grammar on the How changes for the most part.
-fmk stays +2 on block, but is reduced to +2 on hit. This helps make his other overhead more useful. He could still maintain pressure after fMK but no combo unless its a CH. This makes fHK the mixup tool, and fMK the conditioning tool.
-Cannot Flamingo cancel (KKK) while crouching. This only applies to the raw flamingo cancel. The fact that he can crouch+flamingo means that Hwo is basically immune to throws… and he shouldn’t be.
-FLA MK>LK adjusted to prevent the guard infinite. This could be done with a hitbox change or a frame data change.
Personal changes:
-Remove invul from EX Air Raid… an invulnerable jump in… is dumb
-Slow CADC from 5 frames to 7 frames. This would open up a few more holes in his offense while still let Hwo condition you with safe FLA pressure so that he can reset with CADC’s. It would just mean that the CADC’s would have to be a bit less reckless.
-Dr. Gramma also had several other fixes to make certain combo routes more stable. I am all for those.
My point is, that even the best characters in the game aren’t the best by huge margins (personally I still hold Hwo isn’t to tier). As a result, they don’t need massive changes. Likewise, most of the bottom tier characters don’t need much either. I mean, my suggest Hugo change log was like 4 things.
What happened to your Juri-ized av? 
On the subject of changes…most of the stuff in the OP in regards to bug fixes and other changes have already been mentioned. I’ll just list a few minor adjustments I’d like to see for my chars;
Cody:
cr.lk: Reduce the start-up to 3 frames, keep the range and block advantage the same. That or keep it 5 frames and restore the range it had in 2012. 2012 Cody cr.lk was ridiculous, I’ll admit, but it didn’t need to be nerfed THAT hard.
Hammer Hook: Make it two hits on block again. There’s NO reason for that to be nerfed when every other two-hit overhead in the game remains untouched.
Perhaps return his EX Zonk to its 2012 damage, and/or buff the damage on his normals to make his solo damage better.
Heihachi:
Remove the stand crush property from his hammer punch. An overhead that safe (-1) that leads to a full combo on hit does NOT need to also have a stand crush. Give that property to a different move, like f.lk.
Okay, a few of my characters… just for fun:
Hugo:
-Increased hitbox in cLK
-cLK increased to +5 on hit
-Increase Launcher range
-Body Splash increased to +8 on block (from +5)
-Stronger AA hitbox on cHP
Abel:
-fMK>Dash increased to 0 on block (from -1)
-far MP cancelable (improve combo stability)
-Change float on cHP to improve combo stability
-Tackles (non EX) combo from MP normals
-EX Wheel Kick ground bounces just like normal wheel kicks
-Buff CADC from 13>10
-Super damage increased to 350
Juri:
-Slightly reduced recovery on MK pinwheel to make link in to super more stable.
-Super damage increased to 330
-Hard KD on clHP
-Counter works correctly (this should be a general fix for all counters)
-EX dive kick bounces higher
-Increased damage on cHP 75>80, and jHP> 75>90
Bryan:
-Remove gap between LP>MP>LP
-Knee airborne on frame 1
-Knee breaks armor (part of a general fix to make all unblockable attacks break armor)
-Sweep on block improved -9>-4
Lars:
-fMK improved on hit +1>+3
-Slightly improved forward hitbox on Lightning Screw (and AC)
-Increase speed of avalanche Stomp cancel (Stomp>LP)
-EX Dynamic improved on hit +3>+6
I was also thinking either expand the air invincibility of his cr.hp (make it so more of his upper body is air invincible not just his arm) or make LP Falling Sky a proper air crush to improve his AA capabilities. And if LP Falling Sky gains air crush possibly make EX Falling Sky do more damage (180-200)?
About Lei’s stance priorities, it’s a universal quirk with the command interpreter. Inputting back, then forward+throw results in a back throw. With Ken, inputting forward, then neutral+throw results in a forward throw. It doesn’t really matter to me, but if others would like it to be changed, then we could let Capcom know.
I am so against these balance suggestions and think that simply collecting everyone’s ideas together won’t be very productive, but I guess I’ll let it be for now.
I feel that Abel is just there to build meter for your anchor. I wish he has Soulless as a super instead of Breathless.
The way it is now, cHP just needs to be done earlier, as only the elbow crushes air attacks. EX falling sky beats everything though. Given that he is a grappler, I’m reluctant to give him overly strong AA options. EX falling sky could stand to do more damage, but it already sets him up very well.
I just want cHP>Wheel Kick to work reliably as an AA combo.
I agree with unblockables breaking armor. It would give King’s moonsault press SOME use then.
It wouldn’t. EX Love Me Tender is an overhead. It will still be useful.
Personally I am against buffing characters that are solid already. Even the Lars stuff doesn’t seem to adress glaring issues except for the LS hitbox.
I will add all that eventhough I’m not really excited and I doubt that anyone is going to discuss any of those requests… Especially the requests for characters that are barely represented… like Hugo.
@Hawkingbird right I forgot about that. Gonna add it.
That explains why I keep getting Akuma’s back throw. It’s irritating when I actually want his forward throw…
For what it’s worth, my logic with the lars stuff is that Lars is a very linear character. He has some nifty setup on a few knockdowns, but otherwise… not so much.
-The fMK to +3 on hit means that you can combo off it on CH. Given lars is a very frame trap heavy character this re-enforces his +frames while making his overhead marginally more threatening.
-EX Dynamic. This is one of the few safe ways lars can hitconfirm off of certain moves (such as his cMK) This changes wouldn’t increase his max damage, but it would reward you if the opponent presses a button in-between a move and EX Dynamic. This is actually something Lars had in vanilla (except it was +8 on hit I believe).
-AS>fient is just to open up more setups with avalanche stomp, as many of them can just be DP’d.
I don’t think any of those would significantly strengthen the character, but I wanted to explain my thinking.