I’m not OP’ed Juri, just giving her better mix-up potential. Like her combo dmg really just reverts back to vanilla, one normal gets a dmg buff by 10 dmg making better use of her st.hk, a little meter gain restore, dash increased to 17 and it really dodges attacks like high tiger shot so where’s the problem with that? This buffs wouldn’t bump her to top tier status. Also switch cancel, super charge I dunno I bounce between the two.
Launchers, sorry I meant ALL CROUCHING attacks. It literally makes no sense when launchers aren’t doing it’s full job properly.
Alex’s point about grapplers getting to much advantage off more than +5 is a valid concern. I would argue however, that command grabs just aren’t than good in this game. SFxT doesn’t have 1 and 2 frame command grabs, and its awkward/hard to OS like you can in other games. Regarding Hugo specifically, his normals are also slow, and since you usually have to throw the splash higher to make it ambiguous, he is actually usually closer to 0 - +2 on block, meaning he really can’t enforce much of a mixup at all. Also, there are lots of other characters with incredibly devastating mixups that, while not command grab based, are incredibly potent, and yet its okay for them to actually have advantage after a crossup, and most of them aren’t hobbled with Hugo’s mobility issues. Even with an increased launcher range and meterless AA, you really haven’t fixed the core of what puts Hugo on the lower end in this game.
The difference between clHP HKD, and something like Fuhajin EX charge is that after the fuhajin you pretty much HAVE to backdash. Which means all those options that you get from it probably don’t matter clHP HKD would let you dash forward in time for a meaty cLK. While Alex’s point about mash-able lows is correct, but I don’t buy the argument that that it is so different for a tekken char vs a sf char that the Tekken character can’t continue offense after a low. Juri is a solid character, but she lacks the offensive or defensive tools to really be a great character, i believe this small change would give her more flexibility in her offense. it’s not like she gets huge amounts of damage off stuff like a CH fMK anyways. That said, the clHP HKD, is definitely in the “debatable changes” category.
well there also the option of CADC before you store the CH and hit a meaty sekku therefore getting a CH(maybe) and carry on with offense. Plus really the only time you’ll be using cl.hp is on someone’s wake-up 90% of the time anyway.
Another bug that needs addressing; Cody’s rapid fire standing knife lp. The cr.lp knife attack does consistent damage and chip, even when rapid fired, however his standing knife lp does 40 damage normally, but 28 damage when rapid fired. This is without any damage scaling. Likewise, the standing knife lp does 10 chip damage normally, but only 7 chip when rapid fired. This should be fixed so it does consistent damage/chip between the normal and rapid fired versions.
That might have been mentioned already but I didn’t see it in the OP.
I might be wrong but I heard those fisherman hook combos were time consuming. I didn’t get to play vs pre patch Bryan often, but what do you guys think about that?
I don’t know much about Poison. However I believe that not every character is made to deal lots of damage. Dhalsim is a good example. Some characters have other gameplans but who am I to tell you that.
Personally I would like to see improved tools for her gameplan and raw damage won’t do it imo.
@FengShuienergy
Imo Juri isn’t a character that struggles. She is easy to use and can be pretty rewarding when you learn her ins and outs. Good anti airs, good zoning tools, a counter, a dive kick, the ridiculous synergy (pandora is so freaking easy to use with her) and great corner damage. That’s probably not all. She is a good character with quite a few tools and you just want her to be better for the heck of it. My opinion doesn’t matter, but at least I said something.
@FlyingVe in that case I will move the counter fix for Juri to the other header. I definitely support buffs for the currently weaker characters. Just not the stuff that could potentially be herp derp. I don’t know whether you have seen Renic’s video about some of the Hugo nerfs and if you have I don’t know whether you agree or disagree with him:
Reverting Fisherman is a signifiant buff for Bryan as it boosts his damage off non-punish hitconfirms, it also devalues several of his EX options and boosts his damage off the fMK string alot. In addition, since Fisherman+throw counts as two special moves it would let bryan activate 6x special move gems in a single combo.
Also, the double fisherman combos from vanilla took approx. twice as long as his current BnB. And his current BnB actually does solid damage/meter/special moves.
Regarding Renic’s vid, I already touched on the cLK and Body Splash nerfs specifically.
I agree the nerf to splash active frames is a non-nerf, but the nerf to hit/guardstun is. Damage potential off a splash was much higher in vanilla, and the guardstun nerf really hurts as mentioned above.
sLP was always a better poke than cLK. The problem with the new cLK is that Hugo now has a really difficult time with moves that you need a low to deal with. The most obvious example is EWGF.
The other really big nerf was the lariat nerf. But that one I agree with.
I guess I will leave that Bryan buff under the debatable header.
Good point regarding Hugo’s cr. lk. Kazuya must be one hell of a match up. I feel like moving the cr. lk buff up to the other header, but what do the others think?
I’m still unsure of the blockstun increase, but don’t mind me. Obviously Capcom would test it before implementing, so nothing to worry about, right? … Right?
Hugo: You cannot compare anyone’s blockable mixups with close range techable grabs to the power of command grabs especially when Hugo’s does 230 without gems active. Command grabs are a true guess more than anything for the whole cast. Not to mention that if someone does try to mash out (even certain reversals) and you do EX lariat x tag, the punish can easily lead to 600+ damage. You know Hugo’s offense is quite strong and once he can confirm into launcher even from far range, then his far range pokes will become way better. If he gets a confirmable Cr LK then his high low game is going to be quite good especially since he’ll be able to rapid fire into Cr LK and then link into launcher afterwards even from far range. Once he has an AA, its going to be much easier to keep people cornered and apply his scary mixups even better.
Hugo has his weaknesses but he definitely has his strengths. Once Hugo has those three things addressed he is going to be a strong character. The proposed buff is completely unnecessary.
Juri: You used Nina as an example so I compared her tools to Nina’s. All of Nina’s low options are negative on block and non linkable on hit under most circumstances (Meaty and counter hit are both comboable). So its risky for Nina to do anything with her low game since if its blocked, she can be punished unlike Juri’s low game, and their overheads are both -2 on block, comboable on counter hit, and both have the same startup. How does Juri lack the offensive or defensive tools to be a really great character?
She has a projectile. Among the best jump mixups and jump attacks in the game including jump attacks that float, ground bounce, and change her trajectory. Excellent synergy with many characters. An excellent one button AA that combos. A strong low game. Has a 15 frame overhead that’s comboable on CH, safe on block, beats all tech attempts and low attacks. A reversal that’s comboable on hit and can be safe tagged. A counter that can lead to advantageous situations and or punishes. She has a 6 frame low attack that crouches under many standing attacks. Good normals. Average walk speed. What else does a character require to be considered one that has great offensive or defensive tools?
If you want to compare Juri to another Tekken character then please do so. Juri’s offense is already strong enough as it is. That proposed buff I would consider to be unecessary considering how good Juri already is. If you really want that charge mixup then you can get your free charge after a Cr hp x jf HP ground bounce at the cost of less damage.
As for the Cr LK making the Kazuya MU worse. It’s like that for quite a few characters who don’t have effective lows to use in that MU. But the main problem is Kazuya himself. There is no reason for EWGF to crush standing attacks and once they fix that, then things will be different. Change Kazuya, not Hugo.
Less damage and juggle potential for KAZUYA/HWOARANG/LAW/CHUN-LI/JIN/NINA
Less priority of random’s midscreen stuff of KAZUYA/LAW/HEIHACHI/OGRE
Less safe’s stuff on block for LILI/JIN/LAW/HWOARANG
Less damage of specials grabs in particulary for ZANGIEF/HUGO/MARDUK
Please fix all jumps ,some are cross up in front of you.
The game is not done as long people continue to play it, whether it be online or at tournaments. USF4 won’t convert me. I bet that counts for most people here on this part of the forum. You have fun with the new SF4 (which will be perfectly balanced now right?), we’ll have fun with SFxT. How does that sound?
Tech wise, pretty sure there’s still a ton to discover. FAR from done!
I don’t know what makes you so confident regarding USF4 when most of the changes and the meta are not even known yet. In the end people might prefer AE after all that hype. Remember how everyone was saying that xT is going to replace SF4? Yeah.
People are still discovering tech, so there goes that.
Correction about LP boom - FSE you were wrong because the recovery listed on the wiki and on eventhubs for sonic boom includes TOTAL frames (so basically from startup to recovery)
This means Guile’s SFxT lp sonic boom actually has 3 more frames of recovery compared to AE, which with the already accelerated jump arcs and the derp jump ins compared to Guiles considerably crappy anti airs by SFxT standards means that me feeling like he sucks dick compared to SF4 was actually right
Seriously why the fuck would they nerf Guile compared to his SF4 self this much? 3 more frames of recovery on fireballs is huge, especially with anti fireball tools in sfxt being even better than they already are in AE, his flash kick starting up in 5 frames is also pretty big, not to mention his normals straight out sucking compared to SF4.
Guile may have certain things worst than his SF4 self but so do most of the SF4 cast. This was most likely done to balance for the new system mechanics. Regardless Guile’s normals in this game are still quite strong and he can boost for at least 300 damage and combo off of flash kick with 1 meter. He also can feint his projectile by dashing which is a huge buff.
Having moves receive a damage penalty for AA I believe is a mistake in this game. They should remove that penalty which will increase Guile’s damage. Furthermore they should make St MP a better AA, because it makes no sense how easily certain characters can get in on Guile.
Rather than making Guile that much stronger, they should address some of the Tekken characters with stupid jump attacks like Jin and Heihachi. Guile is not a bad character. There are a just few characters that are too good.
