I’m curious to know, how would you know they buffered a fireball if they just done a Cr.Mk, for instance. Thanks for your input.
I meant they can just b-c-launch regardless of whether you buffered anything or not. Example, player A is Cammy and player B whiffs low forward. Doesn’t matter what or if player A buffered anything into low forward, player B can react to that and use Cammy’s b-c-launch will catch it. Now if player A used low forward into fireball and it was blocked it’s only -6 and safe from anything Cammy can do (including reversal Super).
This thread is a great idea because one of the things my game is lacking is damage optimization. This was my most recent one. Thanks in advance.
[media=youtube]osxKTUiEJuY[/media]
NOTES:
My buttons are crapping out (notably my forward) so I had to triple tap a few things. On round 2, finger slipped to roundhouse resulting in an ex pinwheel. Meant to do low forward into hk pinwheel cancel to Bison and end the match. So that was an accident from multi-tapping.
I dropped a few combos, that was my fault.
I need to break the habit of doing crouch mk instead of stand fp into pinwheel on juri’s jump cancel. That’s my fault.
I’m unfamiliar with your characters, if I’m honest. But that match was beautiful! A few things though, you got hit by wake DP a few times, maybe it’s me, but I thought it was obvious that he was going for it. (I guess it’s because I play that exact team). Be careful with your jumps, your opposition didn’t do it, but it’s easy to auto correct a DP. And if you trade hits, it’s still in his favour, as your characters have low health and DPs hurt! Obviously, I’m sure a new stick is on the cards for you. You didn’t press your advantage against Ken after he done Cr.Mk > Fireball. Remember, his is -9. In fact, I don’t even think it’s a true blockstring, I’ll spend some time in the lab to clarify that. I’m sure you know this, but Bison’s S.Mk is an amazing footsie tool against Shoto Cr.Mk, as for Ken’s F+MK, you can use Cr.Mp, and I believe, St.Hk (with Bison) to negate that. Overall, it was solid play.
Thanks. With Ken, are you referring to when he first did the low forward xx fireball (0:15?) If so, I thought about punishing that with my own forward, but I was afraid he would mash dp (like a bait set up), so I paused to see what kind of player/habits he had. I know its negative but at that range I wasn’t sure if I could get him in time, so that was me being safe. I could be totally wrong and indeed miss a free punish, wasn’t sure. Did I? Yeah, I should of used more stand forward from Bison. Also, his forward + mk was getting annoying, what do you mean by negating with crouch mp or hk?
Sorry, I should have time quoted. 
Yes, that’s the precise moment I’m talking about. Well look at it like this, you still had the balls to walk up and throw when he had meter, so why not punish him for doing that with St.Mk? At best, I believe, MP DP would hit once, HP DP would also hit once. Just remember, at close ranges it COULD be a bait, but at that range, I doubt it, as the situation doesn’t favour him. Your ‘did I’ part, what was you referring to?
In regards to negating F+MK, I mean you could stuff it completely with Cr.Mp, although it has to be done on reaction, or trade with it by using St.Hk.
Testing Bison against Ken’s F+MK:
You can use St.Mk, Cr.Mp and St.Hk to stuff it. With the latter netting you CH properties equaling to 112 damage (St.Hk).
Good stuff! You answered all my questions. I didn’t know I could stuff his step kick thing. Thanks a lot!
No worries, I hope you show us a clip of you destroying Kens for free. 
How are you going to reach me with your tiny limbs if I’m whiffing from out of range in the first place? Your scenario assumes that you are in range to whiff punish me but in practice you wouldn’t be able to reach 90% of the time unless your poke interrupts mine as a counter hit, which isn’t the same as whiff punishing.
In the recent set between Tokido and Gamerbee, when Cody was out vs Julia they were both doing nothing else than fishing for cross-rush and occasional jump in to catch the opponent off guard. Yet, neither Tokido or Gamerbee were able to whiff punish their opponent on reaction. In fact, the only whiff punish I saw in the whole set was Gamerbee using Julia’s Super to whiff punish a whiffed c.lk or s.mk from Cody. The rest was mainly counter hits which isn’t done on reaction but more on anticipation. They wait a bit and throw a delayed poke to counter poke. But again that’s nearly impossible to do on reaction you do it as a guess. I’m not saying whiff punishing is impossible, but it certainly is a lot harder/riskier than AE, especially if the opponent is able to space their pokes just right and throw them at unexpected times. Even good players have trouble reacting to a 15-20 frames overhead and trouble reacting to CADC so how the hell are they going to react to a s.lk/c.mk and whiff punish even though they can’t even geometrically reach in time?
Gamerbee isn’t the best Julia player and Tokido isn’t the best Cody. But these guys have a solid grasp of footsies/spacing in almost any game they play. So if they could react and whiff punish I’m sure we would’ve seen it more but it just didn’t happen that often.
And in the thousands of games I’ve played online and offline I’ve yet to fight another player that could consistently whiff punish my buffered pokes on reaction. That’s only going to happen if I’m being predictable with my pokes or spacing them real bad.
It’s still hard to believe that these 2 players who in AE come up with these marvelous set ups,combos,etc. With their respective characters are just fishing for back and forth boosting when both of their “best” characters have more than enough damage output and better set ups that is far beyond llllllllmhh. Not to take away that they have reactions,footsies,spacing etc., just seems so disappointing.
– Sent from my Palm Pixi using Forums
I’d like to note how apeshit I went on the double mashing, for some reason I couldn’t get anything to work against him without having to at least double input it. Save for the combos, even then I doubled the special attacks.
[media=youtube]Z0An0CeaBuA[/media]
btw sorry I haven’t watched the other vids yet but I definitely plan to.
I don’t know what set you saw but I never saw more than one light in their boost combos. llllllmhh happens when Rufus is trying to hit confirm (lol) but not when they’re buffering at mid-range. And they were only fishing for ABC when their footsie based character was out (Cody/Julia) but otherwise Tokido was doing a lot of interesting and nasty setups with Sim and Gamerbee was doing some good zoning with Jack so it wasn’t just lmhh all the time.
Like it or not, ABC is the main way to play footsies in this game if you have no meter or want to preserve your meter for something else. So they were actually playing smart footsie wise, just not optimizing their combos. Just because chains are stupid and were designed to help casual players doesn’t mean using ABC in footsies is stupid. It’s a simple and effective tech that many here on SRK and even a lot of A rank players online have not assimilated/incorporated yet into their gameplay.
But yeah, Gamerbee could learn a thing or two from watching Ryan play her. He definitely needs to optimize those combos and manage his meter more carefully. But he’s getting there I think. Also Tokido’s oki setups were far more effective than what Gamerbee was doing after his knockdowns.
No link is being shown, mate.
ouch, I’ll edit that when the upload is done being weird.
No worries, I look forward to seeing you play.
It’s up!
We can see how crazy he was going with mashing, in that regard, I think you need to implement frame traps more into your game. Your use of launcher was precise. You didn’t seem to want to block cross ups, I don’t know whether that was down to your stick (pad) or connection. Don’t forget, your characters are strong in the footsies department, especially against Shotos,
Your Julia mix up game after her dash was nice, just be aware that her overhead punch isn’t safe on block.
Just in case you didn’t know, here’s a link to the frame data.
I may need a quick up-to-speed on frame data. Thank you for the critique!
You mean, you don’t understand how it works? You’re welcome.
I’m going to come at this from the same logic that you’re using. The reason you say to whiff normals in the first place is because the opponent might walk into them or press a button into them getting your buffer to come out. So if you’re doing that your opponent has to be close enough to walk into them in the first place. If they’re close enough to walk into it, they’re geometrically close enough to hit your normal in its recovery. I guess if you’re whiffing completely outside the range of all of your opponent’s pokes then there’s no risk, but there’s also no potential for reward since they wouldn’t be close enough to walk into the button or stick a normal into yours, getting counter poked. The only thing that can possibly come from this is potentally getting preemptively jumped on.
So, assuming you’re whiffing normals that are actually in the range where they can do any good, then yes against any player who has practiced whiff punishing that is a huge risk. Cody’s light kick is honestly a big exception because it comes out so fast and recovers so quickly. Also in that set in particular, Julia doesn’t have anything to poke back at that’s that fast and far to catch Cody’s standing forward right outside of max distance, and Julia’s crouching light kick is similar to Cody’s in that it comes out faster and is out for much less time than Ryu’s low forward. To put it in perspective, Ryu’s low forward has a total of 26 active frames (5/5/16), so the full animation is longer than the startup of say, Xiaoyu’s Cyanide which can be blocked every time unless you’re pressing buttons. Julia’s low short on the other hand has, only 19 active frames (5/4/10). Similar to Chun Li’s light Hazanshu in AE which should be blocked almost every time, but it’s a lot easier to slip up on that if you’re not looking for that animation.
Also about the CADCs, depends on who you play. If you’ve seen Ricky Ortiz play PR Balrog, he punishes CADCs consistently from PR Rog’s Ryu. Perhaps he might be mashing low short, but he’s not getting counter hit by the frame traps, and it’s a 2 frame punish for sweep and much larger for low forward so it’s perfectly doable. And I’m sure everyone’s seen Daigo and XSK Samurai consistently whiff punish low forwards from other Ryu’s in AE well over 3/4 of the time. You can tell it’s on reaction, because their character will literally stand still right outside of the low forward to make sure their hurt box is thinner than when crouching and then sweep. Since we’re using Tokido as an example, he actually does that exact same thing against opposing Ryu’s with his Akuma’s sweep, though I will say he does fish for that much more than he legitimately whiff punishes. Everyone can’t do it on reaction though, and that’s my point. If you watch that SCR set from 2010 I think with Daigo vs Valle you can clearly see that Valle’s sweeps were random and Daigo’s were on reaction. If you want to whiff your normals, and play the ‘fishing’ style of poking then by all means do it. But make sure it’s against a player (or character since I guess I should have said that before) that cannot consistently punish your whiffed buttons.