…lol, one thing that can provide hundreds of hours of entertainment.
The way I see it, SFV having rollback netcode is what pushed NRS to put rollback in MKX. It wasn’t some great genius of theirs. A bunch of poverty fighting games including the latest semi mainstream fighter KI having rollback netcode for years and they don’t even budge to put rollback in their game for launch (or even a well functioning input delay code). Yet, the moment SFV gets around to talking about its eSports and how it’s implementing rollback netcode so competitive play is viable over longer distances and then MAGICALLY they budge? Just tell people the netcode is going to be good, except it’s one of the worst ever for a year and now rollback?
Sounds super fishy. Sounds like budging over a mainstream game putting in much better netcode even if not perfect to what was one of the worst in input delay code in a while. Which is saying something since input code is already suboptimal.
It’s really bad that MKX had input delay netcode worse than some OG Xbox era games. Pretty sure SF Anniversary Collection 3rd Strike had better netcode.
If Capcom gets out of this rut as I’m pretty sure they will, I see them being the game that again the FGC flocks to and just some people are salty that the bad business company is still stealing the FGC spotlight years later. They’ve always been a company of good concepts executed poorly, but they still have time for this to expand and then be the game that a lot of people says has this and that over other fighting games. Even if the game has less casual people playing everyday initially, it will most likely have most of the competitive fighting game player base playing on and offline after a year. With some extra moves with their business tactics here and there more casuals can end up sliding in also.
If you don’t like the game or think it’s shit, nothing new. Everybody don’t like something.
Fixed.
This game out of the box has almost nothing for casuals. It has nothing for newbies. No trials, no arcade mode, and no proper story mode to help create a relationship between a newcomer and the characters. It takes a lot more to play and enjoy playing a fighting game than its engine.
LOL r ppl really saying this is the death of SF haha oh man
A year from now (maybe less) ur all gonna look back at this day and feel foolish just like when ppl called sf dead when 4 first came out
The big difference is SF4 wasn’t getting bodied like this game is. It’s night and day.
Proof is in the pudding.
No one wants to tackle the content question…because that really is the bottom line. Does SFV have less content at launch than MKX had at launch? Simple as that.
Who is the fucking idiot who said SF was dead when 4 came out? I don’t remember any one seriously saying that and if they did they were blind. SF4 almost single handedly revived SF and the entire genre/FGC. SF4 had some of the best sales this series ever had. Certainly better sales in the first month.
SF4 was very much the SF2 of the modern era.
SF5 is turning out to be the SF3 (i.e.a misunderstood commercial failure that could send the franchise into a long hiatus).
One recent estimate (Examiner article) is worldwide sales of 340k. At best SF5 right now can hope to break even within the next 12-18 months.
The MK hate here is clownish. I haven’t touched MK since Deadly Alliance and I think MK games are almost unplayable, but even I can see a lot of you are making fools out of yourselves with your laughable hate.
Sales don’t matter when it comes to MK being better than SF but they do when you wanna revive any Capcom fighter that doesn’t have Ryu and Chun Li in it? The hypocrisy is clownishly palpable. Either quality matters or sales matter?
You can’t revive a quality series because sales matter, but SF is better than MK based on quality even though MK routinely stomps SF in sales. Make up your minds, which is it?
Holy shit. Worldwide 340K would be BAAAAAAD. I seriously hope it’s better than that. I’m concerned that one of the DLC characters is going to be horribly broken or (god forbid!!!) Urien specifically will be shit…and, after those characters come out, everything will stop on the game and it will never be addressed. Considering how much I enjoy the game…that would suck. 340k seems to jive with the sub-400k #'s being reported…but…yeesh. This thing was supposed to move 2 million units…so if it doesn’t crack even A QUARTER of that estimate. Fuck.
I just hope that when Capcom abandons SF5 since they are going to be underwater it’s after Balrog is finished.
I just want my fight money.
4 was great no matter what people here say.
I like 5, but I can’t and don’t want to be an apologist of this stupid launch. Capcom was greedy and arrogant.
Nintendo doesn’t care at all about competitive gaming, and yet 3 Nintendo games will be at EVO this year. SFV will be the flagship game of course, but I won’t be surprised at all if the two Smashes combined beat SFV numbers. One of them a 2001 game that people simply refuse to stop playing. Can you see the irony? Why is Melee and not ST or 3S at main stage on EVO?
I would say that is the overall popularity of a game that pushes forward its competitive scene, not the other way around.
Boon knows his fanbase and knows how to execute his gimmick. The majority of people who are fans of MK are fans of the characters and the story, not the gameplay; they also love a lot of the LOL GORY stuff. As long as MK continues to pack story mode and other random shit that doesn’t matter to versus, the games will sell because that’s where the vast majority of its fanbase lies. They could probably get rid of local multiplayer and just have it be an online game and still sell if the single player content is strong enough. Not even that, half the modes are shit anyway. If their story mode continues being a crazy story, people will eat it up.
This isn’t to say that regular FGC dudes don’t like story mode, but that isn’t really there for them.
IIRC, every single PS2 era MK got a greatest hit treatment. MK didn’t get shelved because it didn’t sell well, it got “shelved” because everything else going on with Midway was shit. Even MK vs DC universe had a greatest hit box.
I’ve had plenty of sour grapes with Boon. It has always centered on him making broken crap that is cheaply animated because he knew he could get away with it. MKX is finally the game that has put a real good effort in gameplay. You guys can tell yourselves it isn’t this way, but it is. MK has been otaku storyline fodder since MK4 up until MKX. If you couldn’t patch the MK games, they’d be MvC2 levels of broken from initial release. The community being offered crap like that bothers me tremendously regardless of whether I like it or not. Any type of failure is bad for us because we are the ones that ultimately get the most out of these games. One failure makes the business shaky and to be honest, there’s only so many of them the genre can take before the companies question investing in it.
See that’s the kind of attitude I really don’t like. So if the story community loves every story part that comes out of, for instance, MK and dissects it and thoroughly enjoys it…their enjoyment is, ultimately, somehow less than the competitive communities because the competitive community chooses to play the game to a high level?
I think that’s bullshit.
You can’t measure something like that. Especially when the competitive community counts for so little of the bottom-line success of fighters. It isn’t SRK-types that made SFII wildly commercially successful. It was Joe Arcade-goer. A casual player sort back in the day.
My love for SF comes from both the arcade scene I grew up in and from a thorough love of the lore because of my interest in comic books and martial arts. That I choose to spend my SF time researching trivial tidbits of information and nearly lost pieces of behind the scenes material as opposed to focusing on my gameplay skills (which I do still put a lot of time into, mind you) doesn’t mean that I am, ultimately, getting less out of the game by not prioritizing competitive gameplay. If someone chooses to do nothing but play arcade mode in SF4 because that’s what they’re comfortable with and they LOVE IT…maybe they are getting more out of the experience than we could ever appreciate. I don’t know and, like I said, I don’t think there is a way to know.
As for the other stuff…I don’t really believe that about Boon. It paints him in a really cynical light when he’s a guy that has continuously tried to bring new things to the table and innovate and offer more for fans of MK. Did they all work? HELL NO. But none of it should really be chalked up to what he thought he could “get away with”. He does not strike me as a lazy or passionless developer. Quite the opposite. Hell, all the MK’s during the height of SF and MK had competitive scenes. Was any MK as competitively sound? No, of course not…but since MK9 there’s been a clear effort to make the games far more competitive for this kind of community. There’s real effort there. They brought in high level players and continued to balance, etc. That’s effort…and not effort that was just lip-service. MKX expanded on those efforts.
Why would he do that? Why even other if he’s a guy that will do the bare minimum? I think he did it because he gives a fuck. He gives a fuck about the fans of the game that WANT it to be competitive even if they are a small small small SMALL portion of the whole. Did he cut corners on the parts of the game that would make “casual” fans happy? Nope. They did both. How much did competitive appeal sell for MK9 or X? Pfft. If it’s anything like the raw percentage of people going to sites like TYM (who, by the way, usually have a WAY better level of organization and thoroughness to their competitive break-downs for characters IMO…so kudos to that great community I also pop in and out of) or competitions, etc…then it’s flat-out STUPID to do it for money or sales or anything OTHER than trying to cater to a small segment of fans out of because they give a fuck?
As just one example…competitive players asked for frame data. Something the 99.99% of MK fans don’t even recognize as a thing. It’s in MKX.
And sure it’s easy to say “Well that’s SO easy to put in the game…”
And yet Capcom gave us the middle finger in that regard because…reasons?
Or because they “knew they could get away with it”?
The people putting the most amount of hours into these games come from these communities. Single player content is usually finite, versus matches are virtually infinite.
It has nothing to do with attitude, long after people have forgotten about X,Y or Z fighting game it is the dedicated fanbases that continue playing them. Speed runners have spent more time with Shovel Knight than I have; that is not at all a ridiculous statement to make.
What does this have to do with ANYTHING?
People buy the game for different reasons and derive joy in different ways. The money of the casual is equal in value to the money of the FGC member.
There is no denying right now that most people who would normally buy SF would NOT buy it in 2016 if it did not have a satisfying single player experience at launch. Yes, most people choose to PAY for quality content rather than virtually infinite VS matches online.
I remember how people predicted that the SF name alone will secure the casual market, well thank god it didn’t. Capcom need a wake up call badly, because clearly driving its other flagship titles into the ground wasn’t loud enough.
Given some of the comments on the last few pages of this thread, I figured I’d offer some “outside” perspective.
Before last year, the last fighting game I played was Tekken 3 just as it came out on the PS1. For whatever reason, after that, I lost interest in the genre and mostly forgot that it even existed until about a year ago when MKX launched. I checked its reviews (almost overwhelmingly positive), looked at some youtube videos, and decided that it’s worth at least trying. Before I knew it I was completely hooked again. I enjoyed the story mode, loved the multiple types of towers (aka arcade modes), fatalities, brutalities, and even got local people to play with me, etc. Since then I’ve unlocked every single Krypt item, and got every single DLC. I’m still playing it to this day with friends, really enjoying the KP2 characters, and so on, and so forth.
Never the less, I wanted to try other fighting games just to see what else was available – and that brings me here. I read all about the SFV betas, I kept checking this site and the forums to see what people were saying, and I knew full well that by paying $60 dollars I wouldn’t get my money’s worth as far as single player content goes (by that I mean now and in June when the story mode is supposed to drop). Please don’t misinterpret this as me being upset; the lack of content was fully expected and I’m not specifically here to claim that SFV isn’t worth the money.
So with all of that out of the way, here’s my main point: I would have never bought SFV if I hadn’t loved MKX so much. And if the tables were turned and I got SFV first, I would have simply completed all the character stories, realized that I still have about 30 minutes to get an automatic refund from steam, and would have been done with the fighting game genre again. I probably wouldn’t have even bothered to try another fighting game given how abysmal this one is to newcomers. So really, undermining MKX when all it’s doing is bringing more people into the FGC seems kind of counter intuitive to me.
SF2 was one of the biggest sellers ever. Didn’t have online. People used to just like FGs because they were fun to play. I’ll even admit myself I didn’t go online in Vanilla SF4 til well late in the game, I think super was almost out.
I don’t think it’s even a debate anymore, the numbers are there, this game sucks donkey dick for almost everyone bar the hardcores.
Have you seen the load times? It takes 3 weeks to try and counterpick.
SF2 also had basically zero story, there were also arcades. Times were different, what you expected from a game was totally different. One of the biggest failures on Capcom’s part was certainly the removal of the ability to fight the CPU or an arcade mode which even sf2 had. You can’t really use the individual character short stories as a replacement for arcade mode either, there is only like 2 fights for many of them and you can’t alter the difficulty. I’d argue that leaving that out was even more important than the story mode, and less logical since they already had all of the parts in place.