I also consider their normals when I call a character a shoto. That is why I don’t really classify Sagat as a shoto, because his normals are SO different. Many shotos and shoto-likes share very similar normals and/or use them in the similar ways. They might change which button activates them, or if the normal is a close/far normal or a NJ or angle jump but they share many normals. The MAIN thing though is fireball + DP + tatsu like. For me it has to be a bit more than JUST a forward advancing normal, has to be something like a tatsu or Dankicks where it’s off the ground and beats lows.
The normals is the thing that keeps Poison from being dubbed a “shoto” imo. Her normals are all very different from the shotos.
I don’t think you can not call Evil Ryu / Oni shotos for sure. I do agree there are shotos and shoto-likes though. I think that people undervalue the importance of similar normals though.
I think the shotos are: Ryu, Akuma, Ken, ERyu, Oni and Dan.
Characters with slight similarities: Sakura, Sagat, Poison(not really), Gouken(not really). Dan could be grouped here and it would be fine by me as well. If you’re gonna call Sagat a shoto you might as well call DJ one…
I agree, the only characters I call shotos are the ones with a fireball, DP, and maybe a special kick of some kind, but also in the motions used to perform the moves. That being the case, I have only called Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Sakura, E.Ryu, Oni, and Dan shotos. The ones I classify as shoto-like are Sagat. I think the other thing that can be brought into the debate to classify a shoto is the whole “palette swap” thing, and that’s why characters like Sagat, Poison, Gouken may have 2 of the basic shoto moves, but you can’t play them the same.
Honestly, I have felt this way since looking at SF4 – Capcom put a LOT, and I mean a helluva lot of love into Dan in SF4. He’s a shoto, but even though it may be a slight palette swap, ALL OF HIS MOVES and animations are completely unique to him. His battle stance, walking animations, fireball, all attacks are completely different from moves that are shared with Ryu, Ken, Akuma, or even Yun and Yang. This is the approach I wish they had gone with for Decapre. I don’t necessarily mind palette swap characters, but don’t make it look so lazy like a copy and paste. I classify Dan and Sakura as shoto characters, but everything about them is unique and not shared with the others. So if we do get Sean, or any characters that are swaps of others, then I want Capcom to put in the work to make them with original moves not necessarily shared among other characters, including their battle animations.
Dan’s crMK, closeMP, crMP, crHP, NJ MP, FJ LP, FJ MP, and NJ HK (Looks like Ken’s) are all VERY much like Ryu/Ken. His DP is also extremely similar looking, it IS different (most notably he faces the screen and lifts the opposite knee than Ryu/Ken) but it’s still VERY similar looking. Now none of them are direct copypastes like a couple of Ken/Evil Ryu’s normals are to other shotos but they do heavily resemble similar normals to Ryu/Ken. The rest of his moves are pretty different from Ryu/Ken though.
You’re right, they “look” like the others, but they animate differently. Dan’s DP for instance, he faces the screen and lift the opposite knee than Ryu/Ken/Akuma, but the overall animation is different enough for me, that it looks like Capcom put in a lil’ work to make it look differently. That’s what I want in a palette swap character. I don’t mind if Dan or anyone that’s a swap sharing 5-10% of the same moves, so long as the other 90-95% (personally I’d prefer 100%) are completely new to that character, including their battle/idle/block animations.
I’m the only kinda pissed they did’nt added new moves to Ryu (not even that SF3 mule kick?)
Correct me if wrong but from what i’ve senn his new stuff is just:
-some/many normals changed, example his fierce punch seem the same straight of old games, the one before sf3/sf4 wide hook
-he have some sort of mini shin srk, but seem like SFV version of EX srk
-he have some sort of denjin hado, but seem like SFV version of SF4 U1
-he have a total new throw, but we can’t know if is an actual third throw (kinda like Ken’s knee throw) or just replace his usual “leg throw”
-that karate stance, but as now most likely chance seem that’s just a new idle animation
Anything else? Of course as cool it is V-trigger being an universal mechanic doesn’t count
Not that i was hoping/expecting some revolution but see return that special big counter-punch he have in omega mode or his SF3 kick (or both) will give a lil bit more fresh look to a character we already played in many games
Ryu have a donkey kick would have been a great fit for sf5 in my opinion. Sf5 looks to be shaping around juggles and resets… Ryu’s ex donkey kick would have fit perfectly in that category.
I use a lot of other avatars as well but Mai is still my most favorite.
Not really.
… On topic, the only things that concern me so far is the speed of the game, yet I am sure that… Capcom is going to address this issue at some point. I do wonder where this is heading as far as overall game play is concerned.
I liked KOF98 and CVS2 King. She eventually followed the standard FG super busty female trope later on. I liked when she was hot and badass in a sort of androgynous way. Plus some of her moves were cooler back then vs KOF13.
Actually I liked a lot of KOF98 and CVS2 KOF chars more than their more modern designs. At least in terms of movesets. Those are prob my fav versions of Vice, Benimaru, and Kensou. CVS2 is my fav version of Geese. I wish Yamazaki and Rock would come back
Been playing a bit of KOF98UM on Steam and man I wish SF5 was that fast.
Probably has to do with the fact that older KoF movesets had more volume. There were just more moves for everyone, both in normals and in specials. But SNK has slimmed the movesets down and used EX moves to try and make up the difference. Saves on sprite time.
King was always supposed to be really adrogynous. Like so much so you aren’t even sure if she is a girl. They made her way too girly later. Anyways she is a pretty good design. However there are a lot of great character designs in KOF, hard to choose a favorite.
KOF 98UM on steam is awesome, shame more people don’t play it.
I couldn’t stand King for awhile cause of the CPU on hardest reversaling everything you would do with that one flip kick that goes into a lighting legs type animation after. She would also read your jump in every time, and punish the jump ins with jump back air venom strike. I also hated Kasumi (daughter of Ryuhaku Todoh) as well.
Then one day i played King and Kasumi just cause i always tell myself, you have to at least learn how to play the whole cast of a game to “some” degree. After that, i saw just how awesome their zoning play styles were, but they also aren’t limited like charge characters such as Guile and Deejay to throw out these awesome projectiles, and finally aren’t limited to just dashes like Street Fighter is, having the ability to run, thus being able to go in whenever needed or desired. I think that’s why i also love grapplers in KoF too, cause they can run, and pretty much defy the stereotype that a grappler has to be big and slow, it’s pretty amazing that they’re even balanced. imagine if Zangief could run! o_O
