I know my profile pic might make me look biased, but I have to say MKX is a DRASTIC improvement in animation in comparison to past Kombat games and Injustice too. As for Street Fighter, I hope to hear more technical details coming soon. I did think the level transition shown in the trailer was a cool addition.
It does apply here, I’m not talking about aesthetics, I’m 100% talking about the gameplay.
Think of a chess match- why don’t the professional players play with less timers on the clock? Shouldn’t that make the game harder and less boring?
Quite the opposite. It would DUMB DOWN chess, because you have less time to make longer analytic chains in your head and barely get to analyze the basic piece positions with little time on the clock (let’s say 3 minutes). It’s a playstyle of chess, but there’s a reason there too why fast is not the most played mode, and boy i’m pretty certain that there’s a reason why Capcom decided to make street fighter slower too.
With the fast piano playing, what I mean is that people seem to miss the point in the songs. Almost all piano beginners seem to think that playing piano well means playing piano fast, when this is not the truth. It’s about optimizing the songs in terms of timing of the keys and playing at the just right tempo they should be played at. Fast piano playing is completely different category of skill-display than accurate piano playing; and the fast piano playing fucks up the structure and every piece of logic in the songs that should be played slower. Anyone who’s done music knows this; if you compose a song, and then just increase or decrease the tempo from what it was at the beginning, the song sounds completely different and really fucking bad.
People on this forum seem to be on that same fast-piano mindset, thinking that FAST IS MORE DIFFICULT without ANY thinking of the advantages and differences underlying in fast vs. slow gameplay, other than “well it’s faster so you have to think faster and do things faster so it’s more difficult and good right??” Nope, sorry, it’s not that one-dimensional. What I mentioned earlier was just one example (More things to react to! How can this be a bad thing?! Come on guys!) of many others.
EDIT: Sorry for the shitty english
Hey calm down.
Firstly, people only compare fgs to chess because chess is something that everyone knows requires strategy. Outside of that they’re not comparable because in SF both players move simultaneously and there is no physical execution skill in chess.
Second, remember that SF4 is not the 1st fg. People play and have played many that are faster than SF4. In fact the most popular sf games were all faster.
Fighting game strategy is not entirely about reactions. Predicting your opponents actions based on knowledge of their options and trying to either limit those options or make them feel limited is an equally important(or maybe even more important) portion of fighting game strategy.
Yeah, but what we saw was long recovery on whiff. That doesn’t make the act of pressing buttons bad, just the act of whiffing them. Which I have absolutely no problem with.
And I see no reason to assume that the movement options will be anything like how they are for most characters in SF4 either. It could definitely be the case, but who knows at this point?
I’m betting that there’ll be a built-in mechanic allowing characters to either duck or dodge or roll through fireballs. I also can imagine Twelve being in this game now doing one air dash and going “twee hee” right over the fireball spam.
Yes I know, and I was not comparing SF to chess in a manner that they’re simliar, but just as a way to make people reconsider their opinions about fast gameplay.
Or should I say, TOO FAST gameplay that bypass human limits and therefore make very little sense considering it’s a competitive game. I cam 100% see the benefits and reasons to slow the game down, and it pisses me off greatly that people are so piano amateurs in the community.
And it’s sometimes a good thing to be arrogant. Yeah, they could just pay for GGPO implementation or whatever, but whenever you are able to do something yourself you should be aspiring to do so. Have someone give you a dish once, you’re fed for a day. Learn to make it yourself, you’re fed for a lifetime.
The problem is their rollback code sucks compared to other implementations. They obviously can’t do as good a job as other people already have done. I also don’t really buy this argument in general, as they “aspiring to do something yourself”.
There is absolutely no reason to reinvent the wheel. That is exactly why they are using a graphics engine already, and probably a physics engine - because there are tools/libraries already out there.
Why not go that route with the netcode? Just use existing stuff that is already proven to work, just like the physics and graphics engines, and put it in the game.
What they need to do is contract or consult with whoever did the work on KI’s netcode.
It’s a waste. If you can’t do anything by yourself, you might as well outsource the game too. I mean, we have plenty of people who also think the games they’ve made suck too.
And also, sometimes it’s simply not that easy as much as people would like to assume as such. I’m fine with sacrificing a couple of games on them working on making their own rollback if it means a future where they can completely optimize their games to be in tune with their own netcode.
Yeah, I’ll say it again. I’m perfectly fine with throwing away SFV if it means future efforts go even further beyond what we have now in KI and Skullgirls for their own games.
That is just ignorance of the development process.
Again, if that is your stance on it, why don’t they make their own graphics engine and physics engine?
I’ve been in the development field for over a decade now, and if we (and everyone else) re-invented the wheel every time you needed to do something, our software technology would be so far behind right now.
In the professional world, we use many 3rd party libraries and frameworks to build our software. That’s just how the world works.
In my spare time, I’ve already made one mobile game, using the Cocos2D engine, and I’m working on my 2nd right that is an online async turnbased game using the Unity3D engine. And I’m using multiple 3rd party API’s as well like Facebook’s API. Not a chance I could have ever done any of this without these libraries that are out there.
I don’t think you realize how much time, money, and effort it would take to do all of that stuff on your own, when you could use other libraries and frameworks that are proven to work and optimized, and also maintained by other people. That is just how the industry works.
And I’m not saying there is an off the shelf solution they can just plug in and use, but there are people out there that can help you get started with tools and technologies.
Alright, I admit defeat.
Hah, it’s not about that, just trying to inform you about how the process works, that is all!
Also, Ono keeps mentioning budget, so maybe they don’t have the budget to get an existing solution or consulting with someone for it. It could be a variety of reasons.
But then again, it’s Ono and he is always full of lies so who knows.
I know nothing about big budget game development, but could it be that they’re afraid to scare off investors if they use made-by-others netcodes for their major games? Maybe they fear it would be seen as a sign of incompetence or whatever.
Capcom isn’t in the best financial shape. It’s probably why they had to ink a deal with Sony to get the game made. Sony is co-developing. I don’t see any reason for Ono to lie about something like budget.
This is true, though the part him saying something about “keeping the roster small” is a lil’ concerning for me. Not saying it needs to have 40+ characters like SF4, but nowadays, you gotta up the ante a bit in fighters. Xrd is doing well, but one big criticism comes from it only having 17 characters. It’s premature to talk about the rumored 16 characters right now, and this is Capcom, so we’ll get updates with new ones later on. But still, SF4 (home vers) started with 25. I’m hoping the “leak” is incorrect to give us 20-24 at the jump.
As for the netcode…(sigh)…I guess I’m okay with it being like SFxT. I get the pride of any company wanting to do it their way (usually for budget). Just as much effort needs to be put into thoroughly testing it as well. Maybe they do have expanded on it
SFxT’s issues (and 3SOEs as well) with the netcode were the same things you find in earlier versions of GGPO. So all we saw was just teething problems with the team learning how to do rollback code. Honestly, a team learning to do their own implementation of rollback netcode is a step forward since it means that rollback is slowly becoming the standard for fighting game netcode (because we’re seeing more implementations of it, not just GGPO).
I heard they did a patch to 3SOE in 2013 (maybe early 2014) that added ping numbers, banned gill, various other small changes, and most notably updated the version of it’s GGPO to match the improved version that is in Darkstalkers Resurrection and MvC Origins.
Random things from the Taipei Game Show demo.
-It’s pretty obvious that Daigo and Bruce didn’t have any time to try the game out before the demo. Aside from not being staged, it looked like they were still trying to play SFIV. Too many times where they try to go up close and do jabs and shorts leading into nothing (simply because both look pretty bad now). Compare to Peter doing low forward into combos in the Capcom Cup demo.
-Chun’s “SA2” (as I’m calling it for now since it works so much like SA2 in 3S), looks to be really fast. It caught Ryu after she blocked a hadouken from mid range, catching him in the recovery frames.
-Follow up into that new SA3-like spin kick confirmed. Also, it looks like she lands fast enough after it that she can set up all sorts of stuff afterwards for oki, not just a st.HK off ground bounce.
-We finally see the right side corner of the stage after the wall breaks into the inside of the restaurant. It seems to be 1/3 of the way into the original stage. Finally puts to rest the speculation that stage transitions would lengthen stages (they do not).
Yeah, it’s a mistake to put people like daigo, gamerbee, mikeross on the game to demo it. They need people who have already put some time into the game to make it look better. You could kind of see this with the way combofiend was playing. Games always look slow when your its your first time playing.
This is a good point. I’m curious to know if [our] opinions on it “looking” slower would change if we saw Combo and others whom have had time with it were demoing it. Hmmm…