All Vesper really did was highlight how little we actually know about the game. Most of the information we have is vague and based on our own interpretation of what we’re actually seeing. It’s actually more frustrating than anything else.
I’d love to see a new approach to balance as well. Step one, identify character in need of change. Step two, estimate needed change. Step three, cut your estimate in half and do that instead because you are wrong capcom, get in the corner and think about what you’ve done. 
SF5 would be great forever
Screw thinking long term, SFV is going to have to be good out of the gate. So in other words, something very rarely done correctly by anyone.
Differences in perspective 
To me, sf4 throw game is rather terrible. Sfxt is even worse with its low range throws. Sf5 throw game looks to be the exact same as sfxt except now throws are counterhit state.
The counterhit state does nothing to stop crouch tech since crouch tech isn’t an actual throw input. The only thing it stops are real standing throw techs… Which few people will do consistently if sf4 is any indicator. And it will also hinder actual offensive throws.
The throw range however is the biggest indicator of bad throws. Even without counterhit state, low range throws make for BAD throws. If we also suppose that throws will still have the native anti throw protection like in sf4 where you can’t be thrown for 2-3 frames after coming out of hit/blockstun (which is one of the things that makes crouch teching so good) then I don’t see how throws could ever be considered “good” in sf5.
Things can change between now and release of course, but what I was specifically talking about is capcom not knowing what they are doing and making the same mistakes as always. They seem to be intent on nerfing throws.
This can be seen with crouch tech still being in. The huge throw break window on sf4. The throw immunity on exiting stun, and the sfxt terrible range throw, game.
If they keep it like it is, I really hope they at least put a damn guard bar in the game. Even though I hate guard bars with a passion, I hate it even more when people feel safer blocking jumping and crouch teching out, rather than try there hands at a twitch anti air that could get them combod.
Strong throws force people to make accurate decisions at midrange. They force better fundamentals on the whole by forcing people to not want to block jumping attacks because they don’t want to deal with a throw setup afterwards.
It seems like capcom doesn’t know this or doesn’t acknowledge it, and instead expect people to play the “correct” way and use good fundamentals even when the game is telling those people not to, and instead to hide behind huge throw tech windows and crouch techs.
As you say though, the light attacks do look to be a bit slower, so that bodes very well for frame traps which could certainly buff the throw mixup game… But when we also consider the low range on throws, rather than a buff or throws being good, it looks more like a change that simply tries to appease everyone… Casuals that hate to be thrown and won’t learn to tech or have better neutral in order to not be thrown, and better players that want better throw games so that they can capitilize on correct reads and spacing better rather than be subjected to more redtape once finally inside, but will probably appease no one.
not sure why the EX Yellow Flash Effect on character’s body are back , since the Ink Splatter for EX moves did the job too
Nah, I prefer the yellow flashing. The Ink Splatters are not visible enough, and would look dumb if they just increased the size of the splatters
Maybe the yellow flash is for EX moves that consume more than 1 bar. XX MOVES!
They’re likely there to make EXs more recognizeable from V-triggered moves.
The throw game in SFIV isn’t really that strong, but it’s stronger than what many people believe. You can’t look at the system in isolation. SFIV’s throw PLUS frame trap game is probably the strongest in the series. You are more likely to get thrown/counter-hit in SFIV than virtually any other game in the SF series. The problem is that not every character has strong frame traps, and that 3f poke abare is the work of the devil. Since Vanilla, there have been sites dedicated to throws and teching in SFIV. There are videos dedicated to the topic. It’s not uncommon to see people get thrown repeatedly in high level matches (Tokido vs Ryan Hart, Bonchan vs Luffy @ RBK), or someone getting repeatedly punished for trying to tech (Daigo vs Sako @ TWL, Bonchan vs BJUnchained @ NCR). When Daigo was asked back in 2009 what’s the most important thing for a newbie to learn in SFIV, he replied “how to tech throws”. The fact is that you simply will get thrown a lot in SFIV in some situations. Remember how FChamp used to troll Sabin about his stand tech habits? That’s because Sim virtually has no answer to the mixup. That’s why Fuudo will simply spam throws over and over again against any Sim player.
I actually think that throws getting counter-hit is something that should have been in SFIV. In fact, I remember at one point Uryo asking for this as well. Stand tech was just very strong in some situations so CH would have balanced them out.
The seemingly low throw range in SFV is worrying, but we’ve had games before where throws sucked universally and but were still fun, so I’ll wait a bit.
What you say here is certainly true. Once you have great frame traps the sf4 throw game opens up. But what does it take to get there? It’s hard to even practice it at all. And if “everyone” will eventually get there, why even have it that way in the first place? Just make throws powerful without needing some dumb arbitrary executional barrier.
Then there’s the fact that in sf4 at least you have like 5 different types of throw tech to try and frame trap:
Early mashed crouch tech, median timing crouch tech, delayed late crouch tech, early standing break, late standing break.
Like… Whatever. That’s the “redtape” I was talking about having to wade through. And having to do all that just to get a throw off or a frame trap just seems like work and unfun. That’s my primary gripe, along with it being just bad design to me at least.
You don’t need strong throws if you have strong guard breaks. From what we’ve seen, there does appear to be some form of guard break, and it looks like normals do gray damage. This already makes close-up defense weaker and riskier, and makes throws less relevant.
In a fast-paced game, you generally don’t want a throw-centric close-up game because it leads to situations where players can’t do anything for more than a few seconds of gameplay.
I agreed with your post because yes, if you have strong guard breaks, they will keep the game moving and fresh and active.
However, when you say guard breaks I don’t know whether you are talking about strong mixups such as high/low, or guard breaks such as a guard meter thing. Here’s the thing about both of these though:
Games where guard break has been in them tend to move slower because the onus on attackers is to whittle down the guard bar and get a break and then free damage, rather than looking to score direct damage to the life bar directly at every opportunity. Games that have guard bar tend to actually move a bit more slowly because the game focuses around doing damage to guard bar first and the hp bar second.
Guard bar games are punctuated by stuff like ryu doing blocked jump attack, land into cr.lpx2,cr.mk xx fireball pushout… A blockstring basically. Whereas games without guard bars don’t tend to go that way. Given the same character ryu with no guard bar to whittle down it would look something like blocked jumpin, land into throw, or land into cr.lp tick throw, or cr.lp frame trap the throw tech. In other words, more point to the moves.
Guard bar games encourage slowness via having to get 2-3 blocked jumpins into blockstrings to get damage, so most people don’t really try to get jumpins since they are so worthless and at best give you some guard bar damage, that refills. And at worst gives the opponent free damage via an AA.
Custom combo games are the only ones that don’t play this way and it’s much more directly to do with customs than anything else.
I’m not against blockstring centric play per se, but I’d like a game that can find a healthy balance between both styles.
But as I said, I agree that you don’t need throws to force better fundamentals, I just think that in streetfighter, throws do it best.
The other way of getting guard breaks is having really good mixups like high/low or left/rights… But streetfighter at neutral has never been about those kinds of mixups and I don’t think those kinds of mixups would feel particularly streetfighterish…
Yeah streetfighter becomes about high/low and left/right after a knockdown… But not at neutral and not as blockstrings in general.
So yeah, that’s my view on both those types of guard breaks. I’m not a huge fan of either at least the way they’ve been implemented in streetfighter in the past, and nothing tells me that they will be implemented better in 5, but one can only hope I guess.
CvS2 had the best guard bar system imo.
THIS!
I mean just…WOW…look at ryu! throwing hadokens??? What is this street fighter 2??? And chun li my god what are you WEARING? How OLD is that outfit? Ugh and these COLOR SCHEMES! So gross 90’s trash. Obviously the game needs to be brown and grey with dynamic lighting and lens flare! And we need blood! Lots and lots of it! Oh oh oh and we need battle damage between rounds! And maybe a system where in you get to see the internal damage you are causing to your opponent! This is turning out to sound great! And as far as gameplay we could include a more freeform combo system that allows for repetitive juggling! We could call it “street fighter 5 - Next gen Kombat edition.”! …
Or we could just make a visually updated and mechanically tuned street fighter game with enough changes game play wise with a diverse cast to make for a more interesting meta, like every street fighter has done. Hence “sequel”.
You’re being condescending for no reason. All the videos released show that certain things (or some cases evidence of those things) some people didn’t like about SF4 will be present in SF5.
People are concerned that ryu’s going still wear gloves during a fight, they’re concerned that he will still move like a snail. People aren’t concerned that you can still move left and right on the stage and strike your opponent they’re concerned that it looks like crouch tech and invincible back dashes are returning. And so on.
Some people here feel the same way about the visuals. Personally, I would like to see more added new systems. This kind of discussion is what this thread is for.
I’m sorry for the rudeness. I just think all the harping on visuals is senseless and nitpicky. Being confused or disappointed about gameplay elements is completely justified, but it is still in early development.
Take a chill pill. From SF3 to SFIV was a huge jump in term of graphics ect. So we kind of wanted to experience something new and refresh with SFV for new gen console. Otherwise it would just be SF4 mega edition ect
SF3 to SF4 was also a two console generation jump.
Not only is SF4-SF5 only a one console jump, it’s during a jump where the graphical improvement of the hardware is already minimal.
Your sarcasm was fully justified. I’m pretty fuckin tired of people rolling out the same tired, refuted arguments again and again.