Street Fighter Tiers

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21

Yeah, I actually enjoy these debates. It’s funny how sometimes I get into these debates and people think I’m angry or something when discussions like this I actually find fun. Of course when people start to insult me, I kind of just laugh to myself. Most of this is opinion vs. opinion anyway.

Don’t know if Gallon(Talbain) has the same weaknesses as Werewolves we believe in. For the most part, the DSers are immume to whatever weaknesses they have in other mythologies. The best example is of course Demitri. Stakes, Crucifixes, Sunlight, Holy Water, so on and so on, no effect. Victor’s never shown fear of fire like Movie Frankenstein (book Frankenstein’s different), Zabel(Raptor) neither and he’s not a slow Resident Evil/Night of the Living Dead Zombie.

Gouki vs. anyone in DS - Would his Shun Goku Satsu even work? Would demons from Hell attack… demons from Hell? I don’t think that would do much. He better not even try it and try his blowing up a mountain move. But him not being armed with this knowledge, doesn’t seem healthy.

As far as Gill, I don’t think he has anything the DSers could not survive like I pointed out. Even against someone as Gallon and Felicia, I find him at a disadvantage because they have claws for hands. Having claws for hands and being able to naturally sratch someone as we would slap one is a big advantage. Gill could heal, sure. But I’m not sure if he can heal a lost limb or not. But to bend a bit, Gill ‘might’ beat Felicia (still doubt it. Felicia cheats, her cat friends will jump you.) But Gallon - Werewolf + Martial Artist, not to mention those fangs and his huge wolf ki blast, don’t think so. Just my opinion and all.

Twelve’s not 100% human, true. But he’s not a monster. I don’t think we have enough info on Twelve to gauge anything. Like, we don’t even know who he’s defeated for the most part. I have no idea what the hell he did in SF3. If he fought Necro, Necro must of either won the fight or got away since he’s still on the loose, or maybe they never even fought so Twelve did… absolutely nothing except start to become sentient as his ending implies?

22

Sonic boom might be around 58F/-50C to -90F/-68C

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/bobalien99/sun.htm

http://reslab.com.au/resfiles/sun/text.html

Steel starts to melt at 1450 C

a 1,750lbs pound bear can hit for 5,250 pounds of pressure per square inch oh and bears don’t punch they slap.

plus they have claws.

a wolf’s bite force is 1,500 pounds of pressure per square inch

Last min edit

So it matters how much pounds of pressure per square inch Gallon or Felicia can put in a bite or a slap.

23

Where do the CFE endings come into play? Can we consider them semi-canon? We have Ryu vs. the wolf guy (sorry, I’m not up on my DS info…gimme some time!) and Shin Akuma practically flying up to jack a meteor. Where is Mr. Udon at? Were they drawn to be “joke” endings or a taste of things to come kinda endings?

24

NONE OF THE “DREAM MATCH” GAMES ARE CANON. :mad: :mad:

Ryu has never fought Talbain(the wolf guy) or been asked to join the X-Men/Avengers.
Wolverine never squared off against Akuma.
Bison never fought Gill.
Etc etc etc…

This makes the eleventy billionth time it’s been stated.

25

Do any of you guys think Sagat is fond of “Eye of the Tiger”?

now there’s a tough question

26

you guys are all ranting about how strong Balrog/M.Bison is, and how “weak” Alex is… that’s complete bullshit. Alex is stronger than Balrog/M.Bison, and should be shown in the tiers. Alex KOed him in a UFC style match, and it IS partially canon.

If you don’t believe me, check here:
http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=flyerdb&subpage=flyer&id=3558&image=1

27

Well you should talk Tiamatroar about the Balrog vs. Alex thing since he stll rates Balrog higher than Alex in his plot guide.

28

The flyer comes with a story, the fight was very close. You don’t see that in the art. Close enough not to upset Saiki’s tiers. You can’t tell how close the fight was from the art though sadly. It’s Mike Bison. He’s always depicted as being a punk COUGH COUGH RACISM. And yes, it’s ‘semi canon.’ Unless you think Ken cheats on his wife because in that story for the flyer married Ken is trying to bed another woman. Not too nention some of the goofy names in that story.

Alex is only one tier lower than Mike Bison in the SF Plot Guide’s unofficial tiers. Given he’s one of those ‘yet to unlock his full potential’ types, he could get a close win against Mike Bison, and that’s what he did. Too bad the art makes it look like he beat the guy without breaking a sweat. I did suggest moving Alex up a notch in the tiers, but I also don’t agree with Twelve being that high or the fact that Remy isn’t on the list at all! But some of it’s subjective, most of it is pretty obvious like Gouki, Gill and Oro being at the top. It’s actually a lot easier to tier SF Characters within reason than many other fighting games.

Speaking of which, here’s an attempt to list the most powerful in Guilty Gear. I’m no GG expert but here’s how I THIIIINK it goes.

TIER 1 - The Man. He pretty much owns everybody. Don’t know about Raven, possibly here too.

TIER 2 - Sol Badguy - Very obvious he owns all the game characters. He doesn’t even fight at full strength and kicks everybody’s Ass. In one of his Midnight Carnival endings, he lost to The Man.

TIER 3 - Ky Kiske, I-No. Ky - The rival is one lower than the main character. I-No, not sure, she may be above Ky Kiske, but I’ll place them together.

TIER 4 - Dizzy. Defeated by both Sol and Ky.“Who’s on my side? SOL AND KY!” Sorry, listening to the GG NY Vocal Album too much…

TIER 5 - Justice. The boss of the next game is typically stronger than the boss of the last game. Prolly some other GGers go here too…

And after this it gets really haizy… But I don’t claim this list to be 100% correct anyways.

29

I think that alex might be on the same tier as Balrog I have to double check the Tier list.

Tier 5 Adon, Guy, Sakura, Cody, Balrog, Cammy, Zangief, Dhalsim, T Hawk, Alex

Ok I just double check the Tier list and Alex is on the same tier as Balrog. Oh by the way the Alex vs. Balrog fight made me think of the Rocky and Ivan Drago fight in Rocky IV.

Alex = Rocky

Balrog = Ivan Drago

30

It’s hard to tier Ano Otoko since he never really fights. The few times we see him do anything aggressive on his own, it amounts to bitch-slapping I-No and/or Baiken. Personally, I would not include him in a tiering, because while it’s not denied that he’s powerful, his role in the series is really creating the Gears and orchestrating the Holy War, and not fighting.

:slight_smile:

Here is how I would tier it.

TIER 1. Sol Badguy, I-No, Dizzy
TIER 2. Justice, Slayer, Raven, Ky Kiske
TIER 3. Solaria, Kliff Undersn, Testament, Faust
TIER 4. Anji-Mito, Baiken, May
TIER 5. Chipp Zanuff, Jam Kuradoberi, Potemkin, Robo-Ky
…and then everyone else is not really worth breaking down.

Tier 1. I don’t think it can really be argued that these are the three most powerful people in the GG universe. Sol is so powerful he doesn’t even have to put up his guard when he fights. I-No travels through time basically because she feels like it. Dizzy can do Gamma Ray at age 3, who knows what she’ll be doing when she’s older?

Tier 2. Justice started not one, but two holy wars, and had to be sealed away before she was finally killed by Sol. (She’s also Dizzy’s mommy.) Slayer is a vampire who can do more damage with his fists than most people can do with their swords. Raven is one of Ano Otoko’s lieutenants so he’s gotta be tough, and it’s hinted that he can time-hop like I-No; but his fighting power isn’t clear. Ky can wield the Thunderseal which is no small feat, and he was elected the head of the Holy Order.

Tier 3. Solaria can do a lot of things that are out of her range of experience - strong for no reason. (Hopefully we can see her in a game sometime…) Kliff can hold the Dragon Sword even at an old age, so he’s nothing to sneeze at. Testament can summon all kinds of creepy things, plus he’s a Gear. And Faust… well… he’s Faust!

Tier 4. Since it’s a GG rule that Japanese people are a notch above the rest, these are foregone conclusions.

Tier 5. People that became strong out of force of will and either natural-born talent with ki/magic (Jam, Chipp), physical power (Potemkin) or a really snazzy robotic endoskeleton (Robo-Ky). It should be noted that Robo-Ky getting a will of his own makes him a lot more dangerous than your average robotic clone.

The others, while important in the storyline, are unremarkable in strength compared to the ones just listed. (Either that, or they’re Ano Otoko, who is one big wildcard.)

31

Demitri doesn’t have most of the weaknesses that vampires (stuff like weaknesses to garlic and crosses tends to be ignored a lot in vampire stories like in Blade), but he’s most definitely affected by sunlight (trademark weakness of vampires). He has that aura of his, but he needs to be at least 80% to maintain it. As for everyone else’s weakness, it’s hard to gauge from the game alone. No one actually tried to shoot J.Talbain with a silver bullet. Frankenstein knows that fire burns so he has some fear of it, but no more than most people so that doesn’t really count as a weakness.

For the most part, I think any DS that’s not either undead or a demon would be vulnerable to the Shungokusatsu. Hannya and Kien won’t be affected, but I’m sure that Oboro can be. Other than the physical advantages of being a werewolf, J.Talbain really doesn’t have anything to protect against it. Same goes for Felicia. Sasquatch and Rikuo would probably be vulnerable to it too. B.B.Hood has that Dark soul, so who knows how that will affect her. Ditto for Donovan. Huitzil is a robot and doesn’t have a soul. Pyron, no idea how the Shungokusatsu will affect an alien like that.

Felicia has claws to Gill’s fire and ice. I don’t think Gill’s the one at a disadvantage here. Felicia should be the one who should beware of being disintegrated. Urien who’s a tier lower could easily handle her since I’d doubt those claws would do much against his iron body. J.Talbain is something else. He’d make for an interesting fight. Teamwork doesn’t count in the power tiering, otherwise Dan hired by the CIA and armed with a nuke would be up there. :rofl:

I’d consider Twelve a monster, since it’s a dangerous inhuman creature. He can form weaponry from his body and could pass off as a movie monster. I think we can safely assume that he can fight against Darkstalker characters.

I think we can start gauging the Darkstalkers actual powers by throwing out the gameplay-engine-specific features like their ability to pull themselves together after being sliced, burned, or frozen. That way we can start to figure out how resilient they really are if they suffer those.

Ouch. Didn’t know bears can hit that hard.

We’re not trying to pass this off as canon. We’re speculating on how SF and DS characters would compare if the SF and DS worlds somehow merged. :wink:

I don’t want to go on GG characters. I haven’t gotten all the endings yet. :blush:

32

Only thing I might change is putting Dizzy below Ky because he defeated her.

Psycho Power J - I’m aware of Demitri’s Aura, which is why I say sunlight doesn’t effect him. I agree that if he didn’t have the Aura it would be a weakness. And as for fire… don’t you know that’s just about every monster’s weakness? Or at the very least a paralizing fear of it. No one is DS seems to have it, but I’m not sure how you’d work in people running away from projectiles in a game.

Teamwork - Felicia has a move where her buddies jump you. Dan doesn’t have a move where the CIA jumps you. As for Urien steel he’s still got eyeballs and the inside of his mouth (watch Wiked City…) not sure Felicia would exploit it for arguments sake. Unless her ove one’s (students, Animal friends) lives were on the line or something.

Gill’s Fire and Ice - I just don’t think it would have to much effect on DSers. Those are pretty common attacks over in DS land. Over at SF, Gill’s the only one using real fire. Ki Fire like a Yoga Flame and what not is different fundamentally, and not the same as someone who can create and uncreate fire.

33

As for crossover games, you have to give people leway and fubar the tiers a bit if you were to say, write a fic for it otherwise you’d have to have some pretty quick fights. Realisticly, Magneto vs. Ryu - one second. Thanos with the Infinity Gems wins MVC2. CFE is won by either a Darkstalker or a Warzard character, maybe teamed with Ingrid, kind of dull with all the SFers there. So I don’t think Ryu could hang with Gallon but in crossover land, chances are Ryu and Ingrid defeat Pyron and what not, Ryu’s Capcom’s go to guy (only thing they let out about the Marveel games is that Ryu was there to defeat Apocalypse, um… WHAT?) so in those respective universes, I suppose you have to up the SFers powers. Or lower other character’s powers. Popular Ryu beats unpopular (in Japan anyway) Gallon.

Heh, something I’m dealing with now writing my X-Men vs. SF fic in the Fan Fic Forums. I try to make the fights as believable as possible, I sure didn’t have someone shoryuken Juggernaut to take him out… I do my best to make the winners of said victories as believable as possibe. But I honestly don’t think SFers can hang with X-Men, but it doesn’t make for a fun story I think… you can check how others deals with crossovers this week in the SNK/Capcom comic. Not every fight can make storyline sense… um… I think I’m just rambling just to plug my Fic… :rofl:

34

NOTE: Some of this will not make sence as I just woke up.

It seems in all of your posts you doubt the SFers because they are only human, but you don’t realise that these powers may be enough to compete. The point is that even if they are not more powerful than others, they may still stand a fighting chance.
e.g. Spiderman vs Venom - Venom is simply put a better version of Spiderman, yet Spiderman has managed to save his own ass plenty of times when he fights him and even managed to beat the crap out of Venom at times. Power isn’t everything.
Also, Ryu vs Magneto doesn’t have to be a 1 sec match as I am sure Ryu has the same (if not better) athletic abilities as members of the X-Men and can dodge the same way they do. In terms of athletics, the X-men are only human, yet they survive a confrontation with Magneto.
I also fail to see how you can catagorically say all SFers are around C. I agree that they are not S or S+, but I believe some could be as high as A without a problem. I recon it is all about having an open mind about the SFers and realising that they are essentually superhuman to a certain extent even if some of these abilities they have had to learn (I mean, which human can fight bears in temperatures as low as -56 for shiggles - and thats just the Geif).

Mohammed Ali

35

Most of the time Spidey beats Venom is because he prays on his weaknesses, sound, fire, and the desire for the symbiote to recombine with Spidey. As for him beating the crap out of Venom, Spidey’s not a wimp, he doesn’t go all out all of the time, it can happen.

Magneto can control the iron content in your blood and rip you to shreds. He did it to The Neo. He froze the entire X-Men team in place once and the only reason they could escape was because Bishop absorbed the energy and shot it back at him. If Mags wished, he could of killed all of the X-Men then and there, killing the X-Men is not part of his agenda for the most part. Ryu can’t hang with that. But it all depends on what version of Mags we are talking. Crossover match ups don’t always make sense. I don’t care what kind of steroids Zangief decides to take, Juggernaut will squash him. Makes for a fun game though.

Class C is the Darkstalkers that can take on an Elite group of Marines single handedly. As I’ve said, SFers in B, Maybe. C, better. S or A, no. Those are your planet destroyers and people who could beat planet destroyers, all beit if they level down a bit. No one in SF is on the cosmic Silver Surfer/Thor level. They are mortals. Gouki can do amazing stuff, same for Oro and Gill. Not as amazing as S or A. Really just my opinion anyway.

36

I don’t like to include him either, however, the fact that he can bitch slap I-No around and give Sol pause carries quite a bit of weight. Weither that’s a status thing or a power thing has yet to be revealed.

I have to agree with sano on a couple things. Dizzy should definately be moved down a tier.
1- Sol Badguy, I-No, Raven, Slayer
2- Ky Kiske, Dizzy, Justice, Kliff
Raven shrugged off Sol trying to burn him and beat Faust easily in an interdimensional battle. (OC) Also, That Man seems like the kind of guy who wouldn’t carry around second stringers.
Everything else looked fine except Solaria. Is that the girl from the manga? I don’t think she counts, although the manga wasn’t comepletely fan-fiction…So I dunno. I’d take a stab at ranking A.B.A., but Isuka has no story and it would really depend upon if she shows up in X3.

@Psycho Power J: That was to Wolfkiller, not to you guys.

37

It’s debateable whether Demitri has a weakness to sunlight. He needs to be at least 80% to maintain his aura. If it drops below that while he’s in a sunny place, he’s screwed. I consider that a significant weakness.

Dan has team up move in MvC2. :wink: Kyosuke has a super where his friends come in to help give a beatdown. Sure that together they’re more powerful, but I think tiering involves individuals and not teams. What makes you think Urien’s eyes and inside of mouth (why put this in) aren’t also tough as iron? As far as I can tell, it’s a total body metamorphosis. I’ll throw that back at you and say those count more as Felicia’s weaknesses rather than Urien’s.

I’m pretty sure that there’s a number of SF techniques that involves burning your enemies like Ken’s attacks. Whether or not it’s real fire is irrelevant. What matters is how powerful they are.

Okay, now I’m sure that you’re overestimating the DSers power and/or didn’t bother to go through the guide. Ordinary humans are Class C. Those in that class are slaves for Darkstalkers and possess little or no combat capabilities. They wouldn’t be able to take on one elite Marine, much less a group of them. ALL SFers are at least C+. Class A are not planet destroyers (Pyron issue needs to be looked into though). Only those Class S+ like Berial could be planet destroyers. Jedah is Class S and I don’t think he can destroy a planet. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be threatened by Anita since he can just go over and destroy Earth.

38

Dan and Kyosuke - Non Canon Versus games references. :badboy: Next -

Urien’s flesh is what’s supposed to become steel. That’s usually how it works in Anime/Manga/fiction land. His irises don’t even change color like Colossus’s. You mean his teeth become steel? I don’t see his teeth changing color, only skin/hair. Can he give you a real, gasp, tongue lashing? Can he now chew through cars? Maybe that’s why Gill wanted Dudley’s pops ride. Forget feeding the meter, it’s all about feeding the brother. :rofl:

Classes - Heh, heh, I’m really lazy. Pretty much leaving pluses out to simplify things. Point I’m driving is S or A, no. When I say C better it’s all inclusive. And I never said A were planet destroyers.

We are just going in circles here… any lame attempts at humor on my part were to just liven things up a bit. Not insulting. :smile:

39

In my two in the morning mind I mixed up Raven and Solaria, so I would have to drop Solaria, maybe move her to third tier because she’s still a living Gear. Yes, she’s a canon character.

However, I stand by my placement of Dizzy. She loses because she doesn’t really want to fight. Holding back doesn’t even begin to explain it.

40

This had me fooled:

An overview of how I tiered the characters:

Class C is your average Joe. He’s someone who fighting is the least of his worries. The weakest SFers are better than him, putting them at Class C+.

Now, those who matter like Ryu, Sagat, and Guile are better than most other SFers, so they’re a level higher. I put them at Class B. Most of the Darkstalkers are Class B+. The best SFers at this range are able to give your regular Darkstalkers a good fight. :karate:

And then there are those in SF Tier 1. These guys are in the “godly range” and are at a whole different level. Following that, I put them a class higher, Class A. :tup:

There you go. :encore:

Since I only have GGX2 at the latest and don’t own GG Isuka, I have to ask: who hell’s Solaria?