Shinji, my deathly fear of Gief aside (that you keep brushing off for some reason) I’m serious when I say Gief can counter a lot of strats.
Remember what I said about my Hokuto, for example? The range and startup of SPD now makes a lot of stuff unsafe on block that usually isn’t. Any elbow (236+P) on block is now completely unsafe - Gief gets free SPD afterwards. Likewise, on block or normal hit Shadow divekick is SPD punishable as well. Things like Volcano Rosso qcf+P (even if he stops it or cancels it to the reversal) or completely susceptible to SPD.
A lot of characters are regulated to using normals in blockstrings against a good Gief because of what I said above and even then you can be dangerously close. The posistioning of the opponent of HP SPD is not as bas as other titles imo; after they hit the ground you walk forward a bit and bam, they’re almost in max SPD grab range again. Tick throws like jump in HP ~ SPD is crazy and j.HK to properly timed FAB is so seemless you’d swear it was a combo.
I really wish you’d quit blowing me off about this stuff.
When you say “possible” counter and prove reasons why , then to me you are implying facts leaning towards countering . If that’s the case I got a bit curious and would like to see and know what else of Shadow’s tools could work . Lariat should be safe-jumpable , so if Shadow somehow scored a safe-jump setup for his own dive kick then he can still apply some pressure with it , just very limited . But that’s probably not enough to do well against Gief .
If I may ask from previous post , what game ?
Gief is pretty hard to deal with for a few characters . Tech Romancer from what I picked up , so far only Ryu D.Dark and Claw seem to have advantages . Maybe D.Dark won’t be able to use the bomb vortex against Gief ( Not sure with this ) , but he can turtle so well without the vortex and just space the bombs well and bait a jump-in since Gief is slow paced and will most likely rely on his jump which is also slow ( Gief may attempt to time an excel towards D.Dark’s anti-air . )
Does Skullomania do well against projectile characters ?
I never said Gief sucks, so its not like I’m brushing it off. At the same time I can easily remember times when Jeron zoned my zangief out with c.lp with ryu and ken.
Yeah, similarly he can SPD through links like c.mp to c.mk. Course he still has to time that reversal. Now if SFEX had SF4 reversal window he’d be close to unstoppable.
Both can be made somewhat safe with a super cancel (or momentary from SFEX3). Actually Couldn’t Hokutos elbow on block be turned into the low or high kick specials by holding back and pressing punch or kick and then cancel it giving you space? Aka making it safe. Rosso is probably screwed except for his momentaries in EX3 and super cancels in both games. However you can combo shadows dive kick with a super cancel or even link some normals if your positioning is right. Heck shadow can just jump straight up after a blocked or connected dive kick and make zangief whiff his SPD attempt. Lariat though stops both of those cases.
Its like that in most SF titles though. The key to fighting gief is to keep him away most of the time. It’d be moronic to go rushdown on a zangief who has virtually no startup in his SPD or FABs. In SF3 or SF4 that isn’t really the case because 360 motions have startup so they suck even as reversals.
I provide examples to give credit to the theory that I mentioned. What else am I going to do? State theories as facts without anything to back them up? Lariat should have a start up of 2-3 frames so it’ll be difficult to “safejump” on zangief in any case.
EX2p but it should work in EX3 as well as the properties of the moves shouldn’t have changed that much.
[qupte]Gief is pretty hard to deal with for a few characters . Tech Romancer from what I picked up , so far only Ryu D.Dark and Claw seem to have advantages . Maybe D.Dark won’t be able to use the bomb vortex against Gief ( Not sure with this ) , but he can turtle so well without the vortex and just space the bombs well and bait a jump-in since Gief is slow paced and will most likely rely on his jump which is also slow ( Gief may attempt to time an excel towards D.Dark’s anti-air . )
[/quote]
I’ve already proved a few pages ago that D.Darks mixup is easily beatable by blocking straight back. Add in the fact that his lariat should also work well to counter it since the explosive goes away as soon as D.Dark gets hit with a lariat. The basic stragety against Gief hasn’t changed at all since SF2WW. Zone him out and hope for the best.
He was probably stronger against fireball characters in the first EX game (easily slide, skullo head, skullo dive and skullo catch all beat fireballs fairly easily), some of those tools were taken away in the sequels so he isn’t as strong against them now.
With Hokuto’s follow ups to her elbows: The HK followup CAN be safe but its distance dependent. If its usually done from p elbow or w/e than its punishable with SPD too. The low sweep followup to her elbow is always punishable by SPD, sadly.
Of course you can make her elbows safe against the SPD if you super cancel to qcbX2+P (the other two supers are just as unsafe on block); I was going off the assumption you didn’t super cancel.
EX2+: I dunno if I’m late riding the short bus or something. But holy shyt are there hella Kara moves in this game.
Was playing Hokuto and did whiff c.HK into elbow/retreat (light versions) sweep and good lord the added distance is hella nice.
C.HP to me looks like start up on elbow. Kara it and it acts as some kind of fake.
Some reason I could kara Command Counter (dp+P) or Command throw since the cancel is instant, and that input is difficult for me (kinda weird since I can do Summon Suffering like no bodies business in SC2/3 ).
But you know, I’m not that disapointed; because I’m finally meeting up with Ka on Monday. BTW I ordered that new copy of EX3…I can finally get back to practicing that too. Hope it gets here soon.
If I can get Hyperhal and Jeron(if they goes) to actually play then it should be a good time.
Also I MIGHT be able to drag Arturo away from the money games for some EX2P. DS might play too, since he’s tight that I actually rape him(50+ - ~20) in a Capcom game that’s not in the Rival Schools series.
Oh and I’m playing Gief again. Dunno why I ran Rosso and Guile to begin with, I’ve always felt better playing Gief. =p
