Street Fighter 4

Maybe in America but no he isn’t. Ryu is the main character in SF2, this has been emphasized on in the SF2 animated movie and in the game itself.

This is kind of a misconception, because while Ryu is the most recognizable character of the Street Fighter series, there was no real main character in SF2(the “mascot” character isn’t always the main hero). The animated movie was not canon to the videogame storyline(it was just inspiration for the Alpha series), and Ryu didn’t win the tournament. So the closest you’ll get to the main character in SF2 is Guile…and I guess Chun-Li too.

I thought it was Chun Li. It’s also implied that she won the second tournament.

Even though the animated movie is not canon, it tried hard not to contradict it.

The reason I want to make my characters(Riot and Kre) a historical result of Shadaloo was to make a Nazi parallel. Alot of the stuff going on today and a while back had to do with WWII and Hitler’s regime. It just seems like an interesting plot device. I’d like it if happening in past Street Fighters were remembered or alluded to in some way in the next SF. Bison wanted to cement his place in history. It don’t make sense that the world acts like Bison never existed. Shadaloo’s presence had to have caused ripples in history, there is no “and they all lived happily ever after”. Saying that the rise of Bison had no repurcussions on the world is Deus Ex Machina. Also it further helps to let people know SF1, 2, 3 and 4 are not different dimensions. Also I wanted Kre to have an established background that linked her indirectly to other characters instead of just introducing her as a character that isn’t involved with anything what-so-ever for her to not show up in SF5(lol) and not have a full and complete story.

Tekken does it, because they like having a central villian, and don’t want to have to do something like Capcom did with SFA2 where every character kinda had their own path, specific bosses, etc.

No, its…

Game = Main - Boss

SF1 = Ryu - Sagat
SF2 = Guile - Bison
SF3 = Alex - Gill

There was a debate between if it was Guile or Chun Li for SF2, however SF3 confirms that she “took down Shadowloo” rather then Bison specificly, so basicly they had Chun Li take down the originization and Guile take down the leader.

It wasn’t the downfall of SF3.

The problem was most people saw certain characters as poor substitutes, not to mention SF2 built up the impossible perfect dilevery for SF3, not to mention SFA2 and SFA3 (along with the EX games) were released along the side the SF3 games.

If you noticed, the most popular SF3 characters, were those that people didn’t see as substitutes or whatever, example there weren’t alot of Necro fans out there, however there were alot of Ibuki, Elena, Q, etc, fans.

But then you (like me) want something like the SFA series, and let me guess you like SFA’s gameplay better then SF3’s too right? I forgot to mention another part of “the forumla” is the slower more strategic, one super, etc, gameplay that SF1-3 had.

You can still have a tournament in something like the Alpha series, as well as other stuff from the core games, but its quite obvious that the core games follow a forumla, and when Capcom wanted to break from that forumula they made the Alpha series.

Oh yeah and Mark of The Wolves showed that you can have an entire cast change and still be successful or have fans like it or whatever. Not to mention get away with a cast that is made up of characters that are either offsprings or students of previous chars.

It could be Capcom of Japan or Capcom of America that makes it, and given that somone at CoJ already stated Ryu would be the only pre-SF3 character to return (meaning nobody created prior to SF3 would show up) in SF4.

And if its CoA that makes it, Final Fight: Street Wise should show how much CoA favors change, new chars, etc.

No, only in the first version of SF2 showed Ryu winning the SF2 tournament, but they retroactively changed his ending and storyline. The official SF2 storyline has Ryu drop out of the tournament after fighting Ken.

And the SF2 anime was made as a prequel to SF2, it was supposed to explain what happend between SF1 and SF2, and Ryu was the best choice of a main character given he was the main char in SF1 and the fact that he’s always traveling, so it makes it easy to have him come across other characters.

Before all the retroactive changes it really didn’t contradict any part of the SF1 or SF2 storyline, so you can kinda look at it as “at one time it was canon”

But yeah its what inspired the Alpha games.

It was stated that Chun Li took down Shadowloo, not that she won the tournament or beat Bison.

Well I’m still thinking that as “close to canon as they could get”, but yeah, I’ll agree that a lot of the characters were pretty accurate to their game counterparts(save for T.Hawk…).

I think it’s pretty funny that she gets much more recognition in taking down Shadowloo than Guile taking down Bison.

Yeah he will have a gun, I think it would be cool to see this in a SF game. I picture him playing alot like Cable except without the AHVB and also he should have to enter a command to reload after a certain amount of shots fired.
I have not thought up a story for him but possesion is invloved thats why he looks kinda zombie-ish. But anyways if you think he’s cool I’ll finish the drawing so you can see exactly what I intend to make him look like.

Since when has that been official? I thought this was just speculation. It’s still quite stupid that Ryu would just leave after fighting Ken and not bother with Sagat who is an even bigger rival. Something must have happenned to Sagat too for this theory to hold.

I agree there were many reasons why SF3 failed, but a major one was the cast. Only now are people starting to accept these characters. I really doubt that Capcom will only bring back Ryu. Even if someone at CoJ already stated Ryu would be the only pre-SF3 character to return. How long ago was this said? A couple of years?
Things change.

Can you describe anything about the comic you mentioned earlier please TAS?

How/Why would he even know Sagat was there?

Yeah, he dropped out after he found out Ryu did, because his only purpose for being there was to fight Ryu.

Ryu + SF3 characters. Ryu wouldn’t be the only SF character returning, just the only one created prior to SF3.

And I really don’t see the problem considering Fatal Fury: Mark of The Wolves did well, and the only returning Fatal Fury character was Terry, so MOTW shows it can work.

Its like I’ve been saying, Capcom should stick to the forumla they have with the core games, and for the type of games that I (and everyone else in this thread it seems like) want Capcom should do another spin off series like Alpha.

The only reason not to want SF4 to not follow the formula would be because it dosn’t fit you vision or desire, or because you know that it will probaly come out before any other SF games do, but thats just being greedy if you’re like that.

I only saw like 4 pages from it, and it was basicly what I described.

Errrrm I thought one of his main reasons for entering the tournie would be to fight Sagat. He doesn’t care about winning, and I doubt he would enter just to fight Ken. Even if that’s not the reason… there was also the theory that Ryu dropped because he “sensed” Akuma’s Ki. If that’s the case why can’t he sense Sagat.
It’s just incredibly stupid.

I think his main reason for entering was just to test his skills. Don’t think it mattered to him toooo much who entered but obviously it’d be a bonus. I don’t remember hearing about him dropping out either. I assumed he just got knocked out.

If you saw some pages of a book I have in mind, would you recognize the style? If so PM me your email and I’ll send you a scan to check. Please let me know either way. Thanks.

No, the only person he knew was going to be at the tournament was Ken.

Counting Alpha or not counting it Ryu wouldn’t have seen Ken in quite a few years, so Im pretty sure he’d want to see/fight him, specialy considering, if you count Alpha, that the last time they fought Ken beat him, so Id think he’d be eager for a rematch, specialy considering he no longer had to worry about the Satsu No Hadou.

I imagine that after they fought something like this probaly happend…

**Ryu:**Don’t you want to continue in the tournament?
**Ken:**Hey, who here could be better fighters then either of us?

ie neither of them probaly saw a reason for continuing after their fight.

If he could sense Akuma’s ki it probaly only be because of his connection to the SNH, plus like in most animes, I imagine Sagat would’ve had to been close by in order for Ryu to sense his ki (much in the way he sensed ki in the SFA anime)

I doubt he dropped out

That looks like conjecture to me… if not where is this stated?

Seriously, the whole Ryu and Sagat thing if full of wholes.
Sagat’s the former Emperor of Muay Thai! IF there was any sort of media coverage they would be all over him. Not to mention the other fighters would be talking about him. I’m sure Ryu would know he’s there. Ryu simply not knowing Sagat is there is the biggest laziest clusterfuck of a story.

Fatal Fury/AoF/KoF characters didn’t fall off the Earth, SF1/2/Alpha characters did. KoF may have certain inconsistencies which make it arguable that it’s a dreammatch but since MotW takes place in the future and KoF is steady reaching that point, those inconsistencies can be fixed(like in MotW2/KoF09 it can be revealed to Rock that his father was alive the whole time, or Geese was just a zombie since 03). In SF’s case, characters just come and go. That’s not how you tell a story, not a good one. Imagine playing a 2 CD RPG, you get to the second CD and the cast completely changes and you have to go ONLINE OR TO JAPAN to find out what happened to the old characters. That there is what the Spaniards call “El Terrible”.

But I’m seriously doubting SF4 would not have Akuma in it. That’s powerfully stupid if they left him out without explaination.

Is Remy gonna find his father? Nah, there’s gonna be someother Guile clone to take his place, and he’s looking to avenge his burnt down village!

I think that’s a bit of an extreme example. I don’t think you’d EVER have an RPG where the whole cast changes half way through O_o that’s jus exaggerating. However, it is possible to have say…half the cast killed off and replaced. I wouldn’t rule out that possibility. And hey, the Final Fantasy series of RPG’s changes not only the entire cast but, planet, story, universe, dimension etc etc. So RPG’s really aren’t a good example to use lol.

The way I see it or rather the way I’ve approached it in my own SF4 ideas is to look at characters that would seriously have a reason and purpose for entering another tournament if they’re old characters. The problem with SF3 is that the story was such crud, felt like it was made up at the last minute for some characters, that most of them had their stories resolved by 3rd Strike or there just wasn’t a solid foundation to build on.

For example, I’m gonna put out a list of SF3 characters and which I think could end up in a 4th game and why.

First off, lets look at time period. Most people are pegging the game to be released around 2008 which would place a 10 year gap between the 3rd and 4th tournaments storyline wise. Now…

Ryu - Ryu is a given. May not be the main character but he is the star. Just wouldn’t be the same without him. Storyline wise, with him being trained by Oro, it’s basically blown apart the limited possibilities his character had before. There’s so much gold here that could be explored.

Ken - The only reason I could see Ken contiuing to fight is to keep up with Ryu but that just ain’t gonna happen now I don’t think. He COULD enter one last time for one last fight, but personally I’d relegate him to maybe Secret Character status. That way he can still be playable, but storyline wise he doesn’t participate.

Chun-Li - Besides for popularity reasons, I don’t see why Chun-Li would enter another tournament unless another of her kids got kidnapped or something. It’d have to be a good reason though. But I think they should give a new, sexy female char a chance to shine.

Akuma - Akuma could easily be left out but I think considering the developments with Ryu, he’d have a special interest in either participating in the tournament or jumping in randomly, and fighting Ryu. So I’d say yes to Akuma but like Ken, maybe he’s not immediatly selectable.

Sean - Sean has so much potential and it’s a damn shame they’ve turned him into this ridiculous joke character. I say give the guy a serious shot. I doubt he’d ever win the tournament but he has plenty enough reasons to enter and do well.

Dudley - Nah. He got his car back. Nothing else for him really to do.

Alex - Well, there’s this whole crapload of unresolved plot concerning the Illuminati and I think I heard hints of Gill bein considerably weakened for the 4th game to make him part of the main roster. That being the case, I’m sure he’d have some sort of connection to Alex, forcing Alex to enter again. Plus Alex is pretty much taking the Ryu-travel-around-the-world-looking-for-strong-fighters route so I reckon he’d enter anyway.

Yun & Yang - They’re another two with some sort of connection to the Illuminati so maybe whatever happens there affects their village, thus the two are dragged in. I dunno if I’d really have both of them in the tournament though. Maybe just one of them. Being 10 years later, maybe Yang’s settled down with a family or something and Yun’s still content to go out and show off his Kung-fu. Or maybe the other way around.

Q - Q never really grew on me so personally I’d leave him out but there is this whole mystery surrounding him that just wasn’t given the light of day. So storyline wise, there’s an unprecedented amount of potential here that could be explored further.

Remy - No. Simple as. Dumped his sis in the ocean. Gave up fighting. End of. I always thought his story was a bit retarded. He hates all warriors so he goes around fighting them…er…what?..hypocrite or what?

Necro - Necro’s always come across as a cheap Dhalsim/Blanka hybrid. Cool design but bit meh. He could possibly be involved, what with all the Illuminati shake-up but I think he’d rather make himself scarce so doubt it.

Elena - Well unless she wants to meet more friends or something…dunno…I always thought that was incredibly weird and lame when they could’ve gone for something different. Being from one of the more 3rd world countries, maybe she fights for poverty and the cancelling of all 3rd world debt or sooomething, y’know? Instead…she fights…to make friends…there are other ways to socialize man O_O. So possibly but doubtful

Oro - I remember reading around and didn’t really find any source that said Oro was dying or could die any time soon. I mean he said it’d take 15 years before Ryu would be trained enough for Oro to use both arms so possibility is he is still alive and could enter to fight Ryu. Or maybe Ryu just goes off to enter the tournament before returning to his training. So high possibility there.

Urien - Definately. Dunno if he’d be the main boss but if something’s happening to Gill, y’know he’s gonna be behind it.

Makoto - I’ve always liked Makoto but dunno if she herself would enter. Going by her ending, her dojo becomes popular so I’m sure 10 years later she’s gained quite a few students and expanded. So maybe she herself wouldn’t enter but one of her best students would.

Ibuki - A popular character but again she was given a bit of a cruddy story which kind of restricted possible expansion. Her clan wanted the G-File. Why? What possible use could a ninja clan have for some file on genetic engineering? Unless they’re gonna build genetically enhanced super ninjas or something. I’m sure with a good enough reason she could return but I dunnoo.

Hugo - Nah lol I’m sure he’s found a bloody partner by now so nah.

Twelve - I read in Eternal Challenge that Twelve had begun to become sentient by the end of 3rd Strike so I’m sure that can be taken somewhere. He was a simple but cool design, so possibly.

Gill - Most likely. Although they could just abandon the whole Illuminati thing and start from scratch, in which case you could pretty much eliminate Alex, Yun & Yang, Ibuki, Twelve, Urien.

So I reckon the most likely returns are Ryu, Alex, Sean, and Q with Akuma and Ken and possibly a two armed Oro being secret characters.

As for Pre sf3 characters returning, it would be nice but dunno. Who would really have a good reason to return? I wouldn’t mind seeing Sagat come back for his long awaited Ryu rematch. Also Cammy, I’d like to see what direction Cammy heads in.

on the topic of “ansatsuken” (why shotos & Gen have the same name for their fighting style)

the “ansatsu” prefix literally means assassinate. The “~ken” literally means fist, but if you take it to represent fighting techniques, it can be seen as “assassination fighting techniques” – which is more like a generalization instead of a specific fighting style (like say, Sumo wrestling or Muay Thai kickboxing).

SF2 was a private tournament, I doubt there was any media coverage.

The other two SF tournaments never had media coverage either (I don’t think) plus Im sure that if they did that (in the DBZ fashion) the camera’s would blow from the bursts of ki (if any are/were used in the tournament)

There were only 12 people in the tournament (17 if you count the “bad” guys) and I doubt any of the twelve knew Sagat was there.

Remember originaly Sagat was one of the “Four Lords” and was basicly like a secret character, or match, nobody knew they’d be fighting him, same with Vega and Balrog.

No see, KOF has/had annual instalments so its easy for alot of chars to stay around, and plus ALOT of people seem to have forgotten that SFA2 came out the SAME year as SF3: A New Generation, and SFA3 came out the same year Third Strike came out, so Capcom saw no need to carry (alot) of those characters over into another SF game, specialy one that was so diffrient.

KOF can keep its characters fresh or resolve their stories beacause of the annual style instalments, which Capcom never did, and took breaks between games, not to mention each of the SF games were done by diffrient teams, ie its quite obvious given the release dates that the Alpha team and SF3 team were completely seperate.

Well lets look at SFA3 and SF3:TS, both came out in the same year, and between the two, and SF’s cast of 56 characters, who didn’t make it into either game? Geki, Lee, Retsu, and Joe. Thats 4 characters out of 56, not too bad.

Akuma has run his course. Fans didn’t even request to see him in SF3, like they did with Ryu, Ken, and Chun Li. They just added him because it was easy, ie he didn’t require a totaly new sprite, it was easy to cut and past stuff from Ryu and Ken, and as long as Akuma is around it kinda prevents Ryu from developing any, or well it did, because as long as Akuma was around Ryu would just stay this wandering can’t achieve what he wants type of character, although I don’t think there was any much further Ryu could’ve gone anyway (aside from giving into the SNH) so it was good that they gave him a new master.

But back to Akuma, he was put in to be like “the master” character, but after him appearing so often like this, the Japanese fans got very tired of him (the US fans suprisingly didnt) and requested Capcom come up with characters that were more powerful then him or whatever, and they did, with Oro and Gill. Oro kinda was the new “master” type character even though Akuma was around, but I always thought their should only be one master character per game (which is generaly the case) if you don’t know what I mean by master character, Im refering to those older type characters that have mastered their styles or whatever, like Takuma in KOF, or Geese in FF.

It happens in Dragon Valor, or rather is supposed, cause you play as generations of characters, like you play as one guy then pick a bride, then have a child, then you play as that child, and the process repeats.

Thats what I did too, sortta. In my SFN story, truly alot of chars are there, because other characters are there (like alot of them are there as the result of Ryu) but they all have their reasons for being there (even though alot of them share the same reason) although each of the sequels is less and less like that (in terms of character being there for other chars)

Even though thats true it be better (or the best) to set the game between 2002-2005, cause ten years is just TOO big of gap to have nothing happen inbetween.

I think by that time most would already expect him to be done training with Oro, or Oro to be dead.

I always figured it take a few years (but not as many as ten) then when Oro taught him everything he knew, then he’d die, or around that time I could see Oro and Akuma fighting and killing one another.

Seems like an over estimate, Im sure Ryu would really end up suprsing Oro a little ways into their training. I mean Ryu wasn’t/isn’t far off from being a master of his own style, infact Im pretty sure he already had mastered his own style, but he just believes he hadn’t or whatever.

My guess would be Ryu, Alex, Sean, Makoto, Ibuki, Elena, Yun and Yang but that is an overestimate. The 3 girls were all very popular and so were Yun and Yang among fans. Ibuki was the most popular or the “fan-favorite”

If the gap between SF3 and SF4 is or would be as big as you’re thinking then Ibuki could have good reason to return, ie “she hasn’t been a ninja in so long that she actually misses it” like in SF3 she hated being a ninja but if she went like a decade without doing it there’s the chance that she might want do it again (which is exactly the story she has in my story)

Although if SF4 were in the time period that I’d want it in, I’d make Ibuki’s “boyfriend” (seen in her TS ending) the “ninja” character of the cast (Id also have it revealed that Geki was his father instead, just to clear up that rumor, and as a bit of a twist)

If it were up to me Id say…

REDO THE WHOLE DAMN THING

Start from the VERY beggining, leave NO room for errors, and COVER EVERYTHING!

So here we go…(Im gonna put it in quotes to seperate it better)

Of course SF2 and SF3 would follow and really wouldn’t really have alot of changes, except for being more detailed in terms of plot and all that stuff, ie all these games would make it VERY OBVIOUS to the player what the storyline is and you really wouldn’t find any “what if?” or “dream” endings, well you would but it would be made clear of what they are (if not in-game, then in the “Gallery” or “Extras” mode or something like that)

I have a bunch of other stuff that I want to post, but Im tired of typing at the moment and will have to do it later.

Among other stuff, please get back to me with your decision when you can. Thanks TAS.